Samson had long hair

Originally posted by seebs


I always thought this was, in and of itself, conclusive proof that long hair on men is not itself offensive to God.

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Proof it may be, but its not quite "conclusive."

There are many who may agree with you, though the Bible also states that a man who has long hair shames himself by doing so. (1 Corinthians) Also, it must be kept in mind that Samson was a Nazarite (see Numbers 6). These were a special group of males dedicated to God in a special way, having for themselves specific requirements and ceremonial laws which the rest of Israel was not required to follow. One of these laws was actually that they must have long hair, as well as regulations of diet and drink.

To me it would seem that using Samson and the Nazarites as a thumbs up for long hair is to call for a return to certain ceremonial laws. Pauls statements in 1 Corinthians would appear pretty conclusive in itself to an unbiased reader. What it says it says. We can argue away anything we like, but we cannot change the Word.

In anycase, we must take the Bible as a whole, and not just the parts that support our own points of view. For me, Paul's words can not be ignored. They are specific and straightforward. I cut my hair about 1 1/2 months ago, and lo and behold, I've been that much more free of my tyrannical self ever since. It's wonderful to follow God's call! I pray that God may continue to liberate me (and the rest of us) from the evil within, and I thank Him for the Sword of His Word which cuts away diseased opinions and assumptions, mine, as well as others. Word


"The Word became flesh and dwelt among us."
-John the Apostle

Also, as far is law is concerned, Paul has a few other words:

"Avoid foolish controversies and genealogies and arguments and quarrels about the law because these are unprofitable and useless. Warn a divisive person once, and then warn him a second time. After that, have nothing to do with him. You maybe sure that such a man is warped and sinful; he is self-condemned."
(Titus 3:9-11)

That's a good one to chew on.

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I'm not quite sure how commenting on 1 Corinthians 11:14-16 is my opinion, especially when it's in response to a statement about how Samson is "conclusive" proof that long hair is ok? And if it's your opinion that its only my opinion, then isn't that only your opinion? I feel unfairly treated here...

"Does not the very nature of things teach you that if a man has long hair, it is a disgrace to him, but that if a woman has long hair, it is her glory? For long hair is given to her as a covering. If anyone wants to be contentious about this, we have no other practice--nor do the churches of God." 1 Corinthians 11:14-16

Take it as you will, but remember to:

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean no on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5

I did not post these "opinions" to condemn anyone, merely to share the blessings of God in His Word. The world would be a better place if we who are His followers would just do as He asked.

Luke 6:46-49
Peace to all who seek it
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That would be a cultural norm of the time.

And, the answer turns out to be, no, the very nature of things doesn't teach this; Paul's upbringing teaches this.

If it were against the *very nature of things* for a man to have long hair, Samson wouldn't have existed the way he was. The only way the Nazerites can have long hair, and have it be a good thing, is if it's a cultural thing, not an underlying law of nature.

If God had meant men to have short hair, he would have made it break off faster. [/B]

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I am too painfully aware how the "practices of the Churches of God" can now be dismissed as Paul's culture (which hardly was godly.) In fact, I've heard the same arguments (and sadly, they are arugments), made about gender roles, homosexuality, and even abortion. Perhaps you've argued these points yourself. Yet, Paul admonshes us not to argue about the Law. It's not something that can be argued, so I will not argue against the logic of the world which strives to make our sinful nature acceptable, but state the Truth:

Either God said so, or He did not. Either His Word will uphold something as moral, or it will not. We can choose to listen, or we can choose not. We can build our houses on rocks, or sand.

Meanwhile, have we bothered to realize that our "cultural interpretation" of the letters of Paul as irrelevancies is merely our own cultural interpretation? Being controlled by culture cannot be escaped but by accepting God's Word as just what it is: Truth.

The Bible doesn't say you have to cut your hair, it merely states that you (as a man) shame yourself by not doing so. If your culture and appearance means more than your obedience, so be it. If the words of the Bible ("shames himself") can be ignored by those of you who are godly men that have long hair, then ignore it to the end it brings. But keep in mind:

In life we make choices, many of which we cannot see the end of when we make them. It was by keeping what Saul thought was good that he lost God's favor (Samuel 15).

God, being the God of love, forgives us our mistakes, and, praise His name, He does not leave it at that, but restores us to godliness in His Son Christ Jesus. Yet, if we reject that restoration, what sacrifice for sins is left?

The issue is not about hair, as in the garden it was hardly about fruit, but faithful obedience for the sake of adoration and gratitude.

"But if serving the Lord seems undesirable to you, then choose for yourselves this day whom you will serve, whether the gods your forefathers served beyond the River, or the gods of the Amorites, in whose land you are living. But as for me and my household, we will serve the Lord ."
Joshua 24:15


Peace to all who seek it.
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Originally posted by gwyyn
Did Jesus belong to the special group that could have long hair, or do artist just potray him incorrectly thier portraits of him??

Just wondering cause picture I've seen Jesus has had long hiar???

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Short hair was the cultural norm for men in Jesus day, so it could be assumed that Jesus did not have long hair. Furthermore, as he was a Jew but not a Nazarite (because he drank wine), and followed the Law perfectly, the point is fairly obvious. Jesus had short hair. Yet, he did have a beard which He would never have cut.

We must always keep in mind that most art regarding Christ began in the 14th century, long after anyone had seen Him. Such art also placed the "scars" from his death in his palm, while archeology coupled with linguistcs show that it was more likely driven through his wrist. This is a wonderful example of "cultural" misconceptions of issues on which the Bible is expressly clear.

Oh and 1 Corinthians but if that a woman have long hair, that be her glory....

does this mean it's wrong for women to have short hair??

I know probaly stupid questions, but they are ones to that come to mind from the reading the previous posts

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Not stupid at all, but rather humble and wise. If your hair as a woman is your glory, and you cut it, is it wrong? or merely foolish?

God gives us gifts. Currently, in our culture, gifts like long hair and childbearing are despised and persecuted. The term "housewife" is derogatory, and full-time mothers are seen as failures. Abortion is the ultimate fall-out of this issue...if childbearing were honored as it should be, woman would never think to slay their child...but rather, power and worldly success are honored, and thus we are where we are.

These are sad things that Christians ought to despise, but, unfortunately, we embrace our culture to our shame and loss of glory.

Great question.

Oh, and don't take my word for it...just keep reading that scripture in prayer. The Bible opens itself to the penitant and soft heart. God will lead you to His Truth.


Peace
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Interesting...

I've heard a similar argument in reference to hair needing to be short respectively to his wife's hair.

But...isn't this question ("how short?") a bit like looking at sexual immorality and saying..."how far is sex?"
Is it intercourse, anal, oral, petting, kissing, imagining, etc?

In my personal life, I avoided the issue by questioning "How much is too much" and it led to my shame as I sinned against both God and my wife. Christ, in turn, had the answer long before ("If a man looks at a woman lustfully...").

Appealing to cultural mores is dangerous. Our culture says its acceptable to murder babies and have drunken orgies.

So, How long is too long? How short is too short?

The answer: make your answer unmistakeable. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. Let your light shine!

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Originally posted by gwyyn
Wow, thanks for answering my questions. I guess what we should learn from this thread is that we have to seperate what our flesh lives percieves to be right, and just live by what God tells us do in our hearts!!!

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amen, sister.

The Bible constantly admonishes us that we cannot think for ourselves. It is our joy as Christians to accept this Truth and let God transform, conform and renew us into His perfect image. The only thing that can get away is our selfishness.

"Trust in the Lord with all your heart and lean not on your own understanding." Proverbs 3:5
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Your quote supports God's statements in the Bible about hair length as well as your statements about your opinion. Not all things are profitable.

Just cause you can kill a baby, doesn't mean its good for you. Just cause you can watch a gratuitous sex scene doesn't mean its good for you. Just cause you can have long hair as a male, doesn't mean its good for you, or those influenced by you. The fact that we are free Christians means we are free to choose what is best for all, not just for ourselves...do not let your actions cause another to sin.

Have you not realized that in context the issue Paul's argument is not for reckless freedom as an excuse to sin, but is addressing what we as Christians should not do.

Furthermore, if God's Word does not tell us what is profitable for us to do, then who's to decide? Will you, a sinner, be the one to decide?

Or will you submit to God's Wisdom because He is Lord. Perhaps He put His wisdom there to keep us from hurting ourselves (if you haven't noticed, our culture is in a sick and dying state!) That is the issue at hand and it is especially pertinent in issues which we think our safe. Remember why God rejected Saul, and Achan's sin!

God will make all things clear to us in time.

Meanwhile, "you are not your own; you were bought with a price. Therefore honor God with your body."

Peace to all who seek it.
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Originally posted by Defender of the Faith 777
1 Corinthians 11 is a statement of fashion of the Greek Corinthians in AD 50. Why not dress like they do as well?

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Because the Bible no where tells us to dress like the Greeks anywhere. It only tells us that long hair is shameful to a man.

Originally posted by Defender of the Faith 777 It's fair to say, that some things aren't that big of a deal, and pass with time. ]

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Where does the Bible say that? Truth is aboslute, or we are all fools.

Originally posted by Defender of the Faith 777 Can we all bask in peace on that?

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The only peace I bask in is my Lord and King, and the freedom He brings. If you choose to bask in the "peace" promised you by our culture, then choose so. Only remember, our culture has taught us to think just as much as Paul's culture has taught him. Those who have deceived us were prohpesied about:

"For they mouth empty, boastful words and, by appealing to the lustful desires of sinful human nature, they entice people who are just escaping from those who live in error."
2 Peter 2:18

Peace to all who seek it,
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Originally posted by Peacebestill
While I commend you on seeking Gods will in this matter, it still comes down to what exactly is long?
The bible says that long is shameful, but does not give inches or feet. Should we be so obsessed that we just play it safe and shave it all off?

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That is a wonderfully apt way to avoid the issue. How long is long? How soon is soon? How dead is dead? When is murder really murder? What did Jesus really mean by faith in Him? And this line of doubt leads right where we have gone:

I will decide what I believe God wants for me, thank you.
You decide what you believe God is telling you.

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Would you really tell that to a Muslim? Then why would you tell it to a Christian?

If God tells me its ok to have an abortion because its really just a fetus after all and not a human, am I really listening to God, or to myself coaxed by the devil? Then why is this issue different? I'll tell you. Because you think so and that's what matters most to you. And why do you think so? Because our culture has told us that what we think comes first, even if it means ignoring the Word of God.

Our own hearts are our most dangerous enemy. Jeremiah 17:9

Peace to all who seek it.
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Originally posted by Peacebestill
Settle down a bit please. Take a deep breath, now let it out. Better?
]

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I think you are mistaken. I apologize if I've come across poorly. Thank you for your rebuke which will allow me to repent of my own overeagerness.

Yet, I must tell you...I am not angry. I am sad. Do you know what the first post in this thread was about to begin with? It was started to say that Samson is not "proof" that long hair is ok, then I stated my "beliefs."

In my defense I stated that I will decide what I BELIEVE, not what I THINK.
What I think is irrelevant. What I believe is based on my faith in Jesus. I believe what the bible says.
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Amen to that...but then, why don't you believe what it says about hair? Why the defense...especially in light of the fact that you don't have hair. Or, is it, "I believe what the Bible says where I agree with it."? That's my issue. And, my brother, it's not with you...it's with the modern church and its absolute disregard for many of the "moral" statements which were intended to set Christians apart as unique children of God. Perhaps you think hair is not a moral issue...and I once felt the same way, for my hair was a good foot+ in length. Yet, while in prayer over the Corinthian verses which were giving me trouble, the Spirit opened my eyes to the deeper issue at root, which is gender roles. And if I'm not mistake, that's a more taboo issue than hair, but one which the Bible is more than specific on in many books by different authors. Yet, the same argument..."it was cultural"...has been used to sabatoge and undermine the core unit of the body of Christ, namely the patriarcal family. So, the issue on hair is a moral issue. We live in a culture which is shading the lines between men and women, trying to make us think we're made of the same stuff, when even science tells us we're not. We are all equal in Christ and His Kingdom, but we are still aliens in a foriegn land, and God has rules for us, and for a good reason...because those rules are the only way it works here!

The bible is my foundation, my base, my filter, my guide.

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Good. May I be so bold as to ask which parts?

I'm not going to shave my head because I am so worried that I may be interpreting scripture legalistically.

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Amen, brother! That's the last thing you'd ever want to do. Legalism is death to Christianity. Likewise, so is ignorance of the Law: "Not everyone who says to me "Lord, Lord" will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only he who does the will of my Father in heaven." (Matt 7:21) It's not about good works...it's about not grieving the Spirit. It's about faith (which without works is dead). If in our faith we have no obedience, our faith is not in Christ...and it is only faith in Christ Himself which saves...faith which moves you to change, to be purified, to be set free. The Truth cannot set us free so long as we claim that its false!

I know what the bible says and I act accordingly. My faith in Jesus allows me to feel confident that I am doing the right thing when I obey Him. (I don't have long hair, btw)

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I'm glad, but you don't have to defend yourself to me. It is God who will judge, not I. Yet, I, like you, claim to be His servant (and the Spirit testifies to me that I am, as I pray He testifies to you that you are). And as His servant, I must share His Truth whereever the lies of this world are attempting to cover it up. I pray you feel the same way. I am not accusing you, and, again, I apologize if it seemed that I did. But I am trying to shed the light of unadulterated Scripture on an entire system of thought which dominates Christian culture in America. Your statements about faith as wholly subjective are a major component of that system.

I don't understand why you are jumping all over my faith.

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I cannot judge faith. I can only observe fruit. Fruit which tells me that obvious statements in the Bible really mean the opposite of what they say is not wholly healthy. The Bible also says that rotten fruit-bearing stems will be thrown into the fire. I am not judging you, my brother, I am speaking the Truth to you out of concern for your personal walk with the Lord as displayed by the fruit of your most previous statements which question God's Word based on an argument about the meaning of words. Long is long, and short is short. If that's not enough...look at the context...in v. 7 Paul says that a man ought not to cover his head because he is the image of God. So how long is too long(Scripturally and contextually)?...anything which covers your eyes, your face, and which ceases to distinguish you without doubt as a man.

I am acting on faith. What in the world are you acting on?

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Praise God! The same thing and nothing but. Amen and thank you Lord Jesus for it. I am sorry that it disturbs you so much to see. I am also sorry that your faith has led you to accuse me of not having faith.

Romans 1:17
For therein is the righteousness of God revealed from faith to faith: as it is written, The just shall live by faith.

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Praise God and Amen. Without His gift of grace through faith, we are surely lost. Yet, may I ask, how is acting on one's faith and encouraging others to do so, (or rebuking them when they don't) in opposition to this verse? Would you tell a murderer who has accepted Christ to keep on murdering? No, in Christ, you would with a loving heart share with Him that murdering is wrong because God says so (and His heart knows it anyway), and then encourage Him to in faith change, not for himself, but so that he may then change the world for God, all of us together, as Christ's Body.

Since hair length is not spelled out explicitly it comes down to faith. [/B]

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It definitely does. No doubt about it. Faith is the issue. And modern Christian thought and culture is severely lukewarm in this area, judging by the fruit of the culture as it completely compromises with secular thought, science, and media. Do we have enough faith to believe that short means short and long means long, and in the middle means in the middle? If we don't, Christ will come and remove our lampstand. I pray that He does not. I pray that we repent and follow His Word, because when and if we do, only by His Spirit, the world will be overcome, as is prophecied. The stone the builders rejected has become the capstone! Amen. Come Lord Jesus.

Peace to all who seek it.
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