A question for FULL preterists

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Pericles

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Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
Thanks Kelier. Yes, preterism doctrines tend to undermine the very things that Jesus taught. Their doctrines also make a liar of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. I will listen to the Holy Spirit in my heart, and not the teachings of a strange doctrine.

That's right...I agree. Preterism directs christians to go back and read their bibles instead of listening to voices in their heads...
 
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GW

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Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um

Their doctrines also make a liar of the Holy Spirit in our hearts. I will listen to the Holy Spirit in my heart, and not the teachings of a strange doctrine

Auntie, hard words.

But I think it is clear that Futurism makes a liar of the Holy Spirit in the hearts of the apostles and Jesus who all taught explicitly that the second coming of Christ was obligated to take place in their generation (Matthew 24:33-34; Heb 10:37; Rev 1:1,3). They all prophesied and taught and believed this, and they learned it from their Master.

We can certainly abide with Christians today being in error on this subject, but if Christ and the apostles erred on this matter then our Faith is in vain and we would be yet dead in our sins. If Christ and the apostles made errors on matters of doctrine then can we say that Jesus is the Son of God? Can we trust Him for our salvation? What else did He err on?

Finally, confirming what the apostles teach is crucial to help us recognize the Holy Spirit, and Paul says so:



1 Corinthians 14:37
"If any man think himself to be a prophet, or spiritual, let him acknowledge that the things that I write unto you are the commandments of the Lord."


And, so, all who seek to be following the Holy Spirit in their heads must follow the Holy Spirit as he spoke through Christ and the apostles.
 
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Thanks Gw for that wonderful reply.
Auntie Belle Um and keller, I do appreciate your responses, for I once felt like you do.

(I did try replying to this and lost it, so if it comes back twice, sorry )

I just am glad that I gave Preterism a chance. Once you start putting all the pieces together in the correct order, things beegin to make sence. I would lay awake at night after reading things from the Preterist Archive and my mind would just be on double time. I would re read those passages in the Bible and it was like a light bulb going off.

Its hard, to understand, when we have been (brainwashed, in my opinion) with the fundemental interpretation of the Bible. How I wish there were a Preterist Bible. (I hear the growns!) I use to never question anything. Just sat in church and believed everything they said. Preterism, at least you have to admit, gets you thinking for yourself.

I feel so lucky and blessed to know this truth.
Nancy
 
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Nancy, I did not get my interpretation from any church or any person. I read the Bible for myself. So for you to say I am brainwashed is utter nonsense. Preterism is not based on biblical truth and it is unfortunate that you have bought into it.

"For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine....."
 
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Auntie

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Originally posted by Back To The Future
Its hard, to understand, when we have been (brainwashed, in my opinion) with the fundemental interpretation of the Bible. How I wish there were a Preterist Bible. (I hear the growns!) I use to never question anything. Just sat in church and believed everything they said. Preterism, at least you have to admit, gets you thinking for yourself.

"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" Eph4:14 KJV

"As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming" NASB
 
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armothe

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Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
"That we henceforth be no more children, tossed to and fro, and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive" Eph4:14 KJV
"As a result, we are no longer to be children, tossed here and there by waves and carried about by every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, by craftiness in deceitful scheming" NASB

Well, here we go again. Taking verses out of context. What's new.

-A
 
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Auntie

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Originally posted by armothe


Well, here we go again. Taking verses out of context. What's new.

-A

NOTHING was taken out of context!!!! Why do preterist ALWAYS say that???? Look, if you don't like the scripture I quoted, just say so, but STOP accusing me of stuff that isn't true.
 
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armothe

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Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
NOTHING was taken out of context!!!! Why do preterist ALWAYS say that???? Look, if you don't like the scripture I quoted, just say so, but STOP accusing me of stuff that isn't true.

Auntie, you did indeed taken a previous passage of Scripture out of context in another post, so there is a history there.

From what I gather your most recent quote from the Bible (above) was garnered to warning naive Christians about he Preterist doctrine. Your audience is correct...but the subject of the doctrine is not.

Ironically, in this section Paul is introducing the "Spirit of Unity" as well as "The Growth of Unity" to the Ephesians. The members of the church grow by feeding on the Word and ministering to each other. The first evidence of spiritual growth is Christlikeness.
The second evidence is stability. The maturing Christian is not tossed about by every religious novelty that comes along. There are religious quacks waiting to kidnap God’s children and get them into their false cults, but the maturing believer recognizes false doctrine and stays clear of it. The cultists do not try to win lost souls to Christ. Preterism is not a false cult lying in wait to snatch immature Christians from their churches. Preterists are Christians just like you. Who serve in their churches just like you. Who pray to God just like you. Who read their Bibles just like you.

With that said, the 3rd evidence of Christian maturity is cooperation (Eph. 4:16). We realize that, as members of the one body and a local body, we belong to each other, we affect each other, and we need each other. Each believer, no matter how insignificant he may appear, has a ministry to other believers. The body grows as the individual members grow, and they grow as they feed on the Word and minister to each other.

It does no good to tell everyone that Preterism is a heretical doctrine held by those with ill intentions.

-A
 
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Pericles

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Originally posted by Back To The Future
How I wish there were a Preterist Bible. (I hear the growns!) I use to never question anything. Just sat in church and believed everything they said. Preterism, at least you have to admit, gets you thinking for yourself.

I feel so lucky and blessed to know this truth.
Nancy

Nancy, don't despair...Planet Preterist is spinning off just such a project, a fulfilled prophecy study bible. Keep an eye on the site for updates. :)
 
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A-
I love planet preterist. I spend a lot of time there. :angel:
I can't wait until there is a Preterist Bible.
I will keep watching.
In the mean time, can you or someone here lead me to some articles on the parables from a preterist view of course! :clap:
I would like to start with the parable of the fig tree.
Blessings' :wave:
Nancy
 
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postrib

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parousia70:
...will it still overthrow the faith of some if, after a proposed future resurrection, someone declares "the resurrection is passed"...
After the resurrection, I don't see how our faith could be overthrown, for when Christ comes and all we in Christ are resurrected or "changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:23, 51-53), our faith in Christ will have become certain knowledge of Christ, "for we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2), "for now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" (1 Corinthians 13:12).
 
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Pericles

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Originally posted by postrib
parousia70:
After the resurrection, I don't see how our faith could be overthrown, for when Christ comes and all we in Christ are resurrected or "changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:23, 51-53), our faith in Christ will have become certain knowledge of Christ, "for we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2), "for now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" (1 Corinthians 13:12).

So let me ask you this:

1. When you were saved, were you not changed in the twinkling of an eye and became immortal?

2. What does it mean "we shall be like him"? You will have His hair, beard, same eye color...will christian women become males...because that would be LIKE HIM?
 
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postrib

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...When you were saved, were you not changed in the twinkling of an eye and became immortal?...
When we are saved, our mortal bodies are not instantly changed into immortal bodies. Paul spoke of the changing of our bodies as something that is yet to happen (1 Corinthians 15:51-53), and he and the other Apostles died before it happened to their bodies.

...What does it mean "we shall be like him"?...
We will be like Jesus in that he "shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" (Philippians 3:21), for "if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" (Romans 8:11).

"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" (1 Corinthians 15:53-55)

The bodies of all believers who have ever died are still in their graves, and we are still dying.
 
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parousia70

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Originally posted by postrib
parousia70:
After the resurrection, I don't see how our faith could be overthrown, for when Christ comes and all we in Christ are resurrected or "changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye" into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:23, 51-53), our faith in Christ will have become certain knowledge of Christ, "for we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is" (1 John 3:2), "for now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known" (1 Corinthians 13:12).

So what you are saying is that the only criteria for making it "OK" to say "the resurrection is past" would be if it were true?
 
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Pericles

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Originally posted by postrib
When we are saved, our mortal bodies are not instantly changed into immortal bodies. Paul spoke of the changing of our bodies as something that is yet to happen (1 Corinthians 15:51-53), and he and the other Apostles died before it happened to their bodies.

I am sorry, but you are again failing to properly quote scripture. Paul NEVER says our bodies will be changed into immortal bodies!

We will be like Jesus in that he "shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" (Philippians 3:21), for "if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" (Romans 8:11).

"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" (1 Corinthians 15:53-55)

The bodies of all believers who have ever died are still in their graves, and we are still dying.

And? Where does the passage above say that our physical bodies will be immortal? Victory over death caused by SIN (spiritual death, separation from God) is the point of the passage, not physical death. Never does Paul talk about physical death in the passage you are quoting. You still didn't answer my question...will we be clones of Christ? The passage says WE WILL BE LIKE HIM? It doesn't say anything about a "glorious body"..it says LIKE HIM.
 
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postrib

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...Paul NEVER says our bodies will be changed into immortal bodies...
Note again that Paul said Jesus "shall change our vile body, that it may be fashioned like unto his glorious body" (Philippians 3:21), for "if the Spirit of him that raised up Jesus from the dead dwell in you, he that raised up Christ from the dead shall also quicken your mortal bodies by his Spirit that dwelleth in you" (Romans 8:11), "for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality" (1 Corinthians 15:52-53).
 
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GW

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Originally posted by postrib

"For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality. So when this corruptible shall have put on incorruption, and this mortal shall have put on immortality, then shall be brought to pass the saying that is written, Death is swallowed up in victory. O death, where is thy sting? O grave, where is thy victory?" (1 Corinthians 15:53-55)

Paul teaches that the sting and victory of death (which futurists teach have not yet been eradicated) exists due to SIN POWERED BY THE LAW OF MOSES (1 Cor 15:56). Paul writes:

1 Corinthians 15:54-56
then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up in victory where, O Death, is thy sting? Where, O HADES is thy victory?' And the sting of the death is sin, AND THE POWER OF SIN IS THE LAW



So Paul places resurrecton of the dead out of Hades at the end of the LAW AGE, not the New Covenant Age. This passage is fulfilled. If not, then Hades is still active and full of the same O.T. dead saints as Paul lists here. Furthermore, if this has not happened then the Law of Moses is still the agent keeping sin active and dominant over the dead, preventing their resurrection out of Hades.
 
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