But that is just a process of time. If you hang around long enough people will join you. Our goal is to enter into the new age.SearchingSDA said:
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statrei said:
My goal is to serve the Lord in whatever capacity I can and believe that He holds my future whatever it may be.
What if we are already in "The New Age"?
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He has promised to keep us so that is not in dispute. Do you believe that Jesus has already returned?SearchingSDA said:
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statrei said:
I meant that I disagree with your stated goal for us. "Our goal is to enter into the new age."
statrei said:
To establish his Kingdom and Judge National Israel in fulfillment of Matthew 24, Yes. I believe there are credible arguments for at least a partial preterist view. I do not believe that He has come in the Final Judgment and Resurrection.
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That is what I am concerned about. Even a blind can see that all these theories about preterist, pre-trib, pre-mill only reflect the utter confusion in the ranks of Christians, in the face of Jesus' prayer that they all be one.SearchingSDA said:
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statrei said:
These natural disasters..."earthquakes in diverse places...sound familiar?", are meant to happen.
If they are meant to happen as part of the progression toward the end result of Jesus' returning for us, then no amount of prayer is going to stop them.
As I have stated in numerous other posts regarding this tragedy...the hurricane DID de-escalate. It was no longer a hurricane 5 when it hit the shore. So far the death toll is "over 400", I would have expected to be told it was in the thousands by now. The material and physical damage was very great...the loss of life could have been WAY higher than what it is showing to be thus far.
God heard the prayers, and He responded to the point His will would allow.
If you want better answers than the ones you've gotten here so far, you're going to have to wait and ask Him yourself.
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This sounds like God's will is a separate agency from Him. Please clarify your statement.SassySDA said:
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Forgetting for the moment people in the path of the storm, what then would have been the purpose of the prayers?SassySDA said:
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Category 4-5 hurricanes have winds over 130 mph. According to noaa Katrina made landfall at approximately 150 mph. I think you should amend your statements.SassySDA said:
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breezynosacek
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statrei said:
If you believe that God said "No, thank you." to the Christian community then you are assuming that the entire Christian Community prayed that God would take the hurricane away.
This is one Christian, but obviously not of YOUR community that didn't pray that. Prior to the hurricane, the Lord reminded me that I had not been praying for this nation like I ought. Now, when God says that, it has been a long understood agreement between He and I that it is to pray for this nation to repent before He destroys it.
So, I prayed that God would bring our nation to repentance. That God would do WHATEVER IT TOOK before it was too late. If that means that people lose their homes to save their souls, then so be it, blessed be the name of the Lord.
You also state that "He did not send the hurricane." How do you know? Are you God's judge? Do you believe it was just an accident or a freak of nature?
Job 37:2 Hear, oh, hear the roar of His voice and the sound of rumbling that goes out of His mouth!
Job 37:3 Under the whole heaven He lets it loose, and His lightning to the ends of the earth.
Job 37:4 After it His voice roars; He thunders with the voice of His majesty, and He restrains not [His lightnings against His adversaries] when His voice is heard.
Job 37:5 God thunders marvelously with His voice; He does great things which we cannot comprehend.
Job 37:6 For He says to the snow, Fall on the earth; likewise He speaks to the showers and to the downpour of His mighty rains.
Job 37:7 God seals up (stops, brings to a standstill by severe weather) the hand of every man [and now under His seal their hands are forced to inactivity], that all men whom He has made may know His doings (His sovereign power and their subjection to it).
Job 37:8 Then the beasts go into dens and remain in their lairs.
Job 37:9 Out of its chamber comes the whirlwind, and cold from the scattering winds.
Job 37:10 By the breath of God ice is given, and the breadth of the waters is frozen over.
Job 37:11 He loads the thick cloud with moisture; He scatters the cloud of His lightning.
Job 37:12 And it is turned round about by His guidance, that they may do whatever He commands them upon the face of the habitable earth.
Job 37:13 Whether it be for correction or for His earth [generally] or for His mercy {and} loving-kindness, He causes it to come.
Is 41:16 You shall winnow them, and the wind shall carry them away, and the tempest {or} whirlwind shall scatter them. And you shall rejoice in the Lord, you shall glory in the Holy One of Israel.
Nah 1:2 The Lord is a jealous God and avenging; the Lord avenges and He is full of wrath. The Lord takes vengeance on His adversaries and reserves wrath for His enemies.
Nah 1:3 The Lord is slow to anger and great in power and will by no means clear the guilty. The Lord has His way in the whirlwind and in the storm, and the clouds are the dust of His feet.
Nah 1:4 He rebukes {and} threatens the sea and makes it dry, and dries up all the rivers. Bashan [on the east] and Mount Carmel [on the west] wither, and [in the north] the blossom of Lebanon fades.
Nah 1:5 The mountains tremble {and} quake before Him and the hills melt away, and the earth is upheaved at His presence--yes, the world and all that dwell in it.
Nah 1:6 Who can stand before His indignation? And who can stand up {and} endure the fierceness of His anger? His wrath is poured out like fire, and the rocks are broken asunder by Him.
Nah 1:7 The Lord is good, a Strength {and} Stronghold in the day of trouble; He knows (recognizes, has knowledge of, and understands) those who take refuge {and} trust in Him.
Nah 1:8 But with an overrunning flood He will make a full end of [Nineveh's very] site and pursue His enemies into darkness.
Nah 1:9 What do you devise {and} [how mad is your attempt to] plot against the Lord? He will make a full end [of Nineveh]; affliction [which My people shall suffer from Assyria] shall not rise up the second time.
Frankly, I find your statement that the Christian Community is embarrassed to be absurd or at least neive. I am not embarrassed. And I am sure I am not the only believer in all of Christendom to pray that our nation repents.
If anything about the Christian Community embarrasses me before the eyes of the world it is that we do not get on our faces and repent for trying to softsell the Holiness of God.
And yes, we are told to pray and to bind and rebuke as well.
Matt 16:19 I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven; and whatever you bind (declare to be improper and unlawful) on earth must be what is already bound in heaven; and whatever you loose (declare lawful) on earth must be what is already loosed in heaven.
Somebody else on here mentioned 'speaking faith' into the situation. We dare not believe that faith is the end all of everything. Since when do we run around expecting 'speaking faith' into a situation to change it? Faith is not a power. Jesus has the power, the Holy Spirit has the power and we are to seek the will of God and fulfill it, not create it.
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breezynosacek said:
We have just unearthed one of the major problems with Christian belief. Like you, I did not pray the prayer I heard that many prayed. According to your argument here is what we are left with. If 1 million of the 2 milllion Christians prayed that prayer we have to discount the result. But if there had only been 1 million Christians and all had prayed the prayer we could not discount the result. Are we working by percentages here? That is a very dangerous road to walk on. When a few Christians do wonderful deeds we are quick to say how great "the Christian community" is. Could we have become fair weather Christians?
This paragraph illustrates why I am glad I continued reading your post. The Christians who spoke of "speaking faith" into the situation have been taught this aberration by church leaders. And many Christians believe some version of it.breezynosacek said:
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The first paragraph relates to nothing about Christ's return before the time of the Father...The Spirit did what was promised..orthodoxy does not teach that some of the Apostles will live until the return of the Lord.statrei said:
I do not have God on a time clock..Either you misunderstand me or are purposefully misrepresenting me since I have posted over and over what Christ said will happen before His return...and His acknowledgement to the disciples that it would not occur in "their generation".
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John 21 tells the story of how the early church had to correct a false teaching they had adopted. For some reason commentators on this text completely miss what the text is saying. The belief that John would live till the Second Coming was believed and then discovered to be unfounded.water_ripple said:
How can you say that Jesus acknowledged to the disciples that He would not come iin their generation? Please direct me to the passage you rely on. You are already aware of the one in Matthew that negates that view.
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breezynosacek
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statrei said:
Nope, no percentages whatsoever. "When a few Christians do wonderful deeds we are quick to say how great "the Christian community" is" Personally, I don't think the Christian community is all that great and never have.
IF the Christian community ever does something wonderful, then I would have to call it an act of God so even then, they don't get the credit. Even great sinners do wonderful deeds. If we start comparing our deeds then the Church has a lot to make up for. The churches are so full of harlotry, it's a wonder God hasn't vomited the whole lot out of His mouth.
I'm staying away from church buildings. Fair weather Christians...I'm not even sure I could say that much good about the spiritual condition of today's churches. If you want an example of the condition of the church just go to any "Christian Forum" and look at all the hatred being spewed, the backbiting, the quarreling that lead people astray. On the one hand, we say, Aw you poor duck come over here with your wounds and we'll make you all better with the love of Jesus. On the other hand, they slice and dice each other.
There used to be a saying in Charismatic circles, "Christians are the only ones who shoot their own wounded." I say, that if they were Christians they wouldn't be shooting.
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Could you at least tell us how you feel?breezynosacek said:Nope, no percentages whatsoever. "When a few Christians do wonderful deeds we are quick to say how great "the Christian community" is" Personally, I don't think the Christian community is all that great and never have.
IF the Christian community ever does something wonderful, then I would have to call it an act of God so even then, they don't get the credit. Even great sinners do wonderful deeds. If we start comparing our deeds then the Church has a lot to make up for. The churches are so full of harlotry, it's a wonder God hasn't vomited the whole lot out of His mouth.
Fair weather Christians...I'm not even sure I could say that much good about the spiritual condition of today's churches. If you want an example of the condition of the church just go to any "Christian Forum" and look at all the hatred being spewed, the backbiting, the quarreling that lead people astray. On the one hand, we say, Aw you poor duck come over here with your wounds and we'll make you all better with the love of Jesus. On the other hand, they slice and dice each other.
There used to be a saying in Charismatic circles, "Christians are the only ones who shoot their own wounded." I say, that if they were Christians they wouldn't be shooting.
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deu58
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statrei said:
John 21 tells of a false belief this is true, But it does not say that the apostles were responsible for spreading this belief,
If We look at acts they all expected Christ to return before ANY of them died, They sold all their posessions and were waiting for the return together,
They did not think that that it was dependant on John being the last apostle left alive,
They were already teaching and telling their stories, As time passed people would have been looking for reasons why he had not come and assurance that he would be coming soon, It would have been at that time that people would be taking the tarry till I return statement out of context,
The more people are involved the more heresy and rumors there would be, We see the Apostles correcting all these things, Not spreading them,
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Let's see. The only persons who were present when that conversation was conducted were the apostles. How do you think somebody else decided to interpret what they had not heard?deu58 said:
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I agree with you that this belief was developed later. When Paul wrote I Thess. it was not yet known, else Paul would have used it. But it would have been much better to have something from Jesus they could point to than just Paul's assurance. Again, only Apostles heard that comment. They were the ones who started it. Why do you think it is such a problem for the Apostles to be wrong? Angels in heaven were wrong. Adam and Eve were wrong. I don't understand where you were coming from.deu58 said:
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