Help!!!!

Entrench

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Many modern day "christians" bring shame to us. However, as Christians, we should feel no shame...it is a very complex and confusing situation. i personally am tired how many of my friends will go to church and act so caring, then turn on myself and others when they step out the door. i pray that God will do something BIG about it, but i know that one of the biggest things done is showing me what is wrong. That is what Christians do...God's will. i mourn the loss of so many in that city...how many died without being saved? How many will have to endure eternity without God's grace? As the song goes...

"If we are the body, why aren't our feet going, why is our love not showing?"

Lord, help guide the people back to you. Help us, those few who see what is turning about, to right this before it becomes hypocrisy.

Entrenched in Christ,
...
 
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Im_A

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well i seperate the idea that Chrisitans are the standard makers. we're a bunch of yahoos in that, and failures in that, that i see no relability to believe that Christians set the standard. Jesus set it, so when i have an issue with a believer, it's like having an issue with a human being, not some higher powered human being. thus any shame is long gone now. things may sadden me that people believe in, but hey that's life. so be it. suck it up and move on i guess :)
 
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freewilly

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tattedsaint said:
well i seperate the idea that Chrisitans are the standard makers. we're a bunch of yahoos in that, and failures in that, that i see no relability to believe that Christians set the standard. Jesus set it, so when i have an issue with a believer, it's like having an issue with a human being, not some higher powered human being. thus any shame is long gone now. things may sadden me that people believe in, but hey that's life. so be it.


:thumbsup:
 
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Entrench

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Yet we claim to be in the name of Christ...doesn't this seem wrong to anyone else? That we represent Christ, yet we can be so cruel? Nonbelievers base their decision on what they see of this so called "all encompassing love" from Christians...Christians translates to "little Christ" or "Christ-like". No we are not the standard setters, but i think we could better in trying to live by the standard.

Entrenched in Christ,
...
 
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Im_A

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Entrench said:
Yet we claim to be in the name of Christ...doesn't this seem wrong to anyone else? That we represent Christ, yet we can be so cruel? Nonbelievers base their decision on what they see of this so called "all encompassing love" from Christians...Christians translates to "little Christ" or "Christ-like". No we are not the standard setters, but i think we could better in trying to live by the standard.

Entrenched in Christ,
...

to me?

the church is the representation of Christ. hence the body. we as individuals aren't the representation. scriptures clearly tell us that we will never reach the mark correct? so how can an imperfect being be representing a perfect being? that's a contradiction. the Bible does say that faith justifys us to God correct? well still even then, people still our struggles. so i don't want defy the name of Christ to give me a sense of mental thoughts that i'm strong, because our strengths will always fail at some point. it's just reality.

i don't represent the Christ. i'm not worth that job title and i don't believe anyone is worth that title. but what i do feel called is to do the Great Commission of Christ. to make disciples the best i can. what i do feel my job is, to present the Gospel for people, to hopefully they see light, life and love in that. then they can meet Christ themselves, or together we'll meet Him. they will not see me being self-righteous anymore. they will see my humility, my weaknesses. they will see, another human being just as they are.

plus, i don't know if i buy into the idea of playing someone else's shoes. all i can do is be me, the human being that i am, striving to always be the best i can be, and live holy in my convictions, show Jesus the best i can, and just live.

that's why i don't get the idea that we are representatives. i see the church as the representation. that makes more Biblical sense to me even. and even with that, sometimes we do see bad representation, but we can always find good representation. and that's what i think we need to do our best to be a part of, instead of playing someone else's shoes :) God Bless you! <><
 
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heron

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That was so refreshing, tattedsaint. Thank you for your humanity.

It seems the passage about being ambassadors was to give us the confidence that God wanted us to move out to for him, as a messenger. If you look below, the mail we carry is about reconciliation. Although we should live our lives showing ultimate respect for our King, we need to be careful about covering up our flaws and potential for error. Self-righteousness does not convince anyone that God wants to reconcile.


2 Corinthians 5:19-21
...That God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.
 
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freewilly

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tattedsaint said:
the church is the representation of Christ. hence the body....


that's why i don't get the idea that we are representatives. i see the church as the representation.



Who is the church though, is the church an entity in and of itself? I see the church as the roof and we are the pillars, the columns that hold it up. It is the sum of its' parts. If a column is weak then the structure will begin to fail.

I agree that we will never be perfect in our representation of Christ but we should at least bear some resemblance.
 
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Im_A

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heron said:
That was so refreshing, tattedsaint. Thank you for your humanity.


It seems the passage about being ambassadors was to give us the confidence that God wanted us to move out to for him, as a messenger. If you look below, the mail we carry is about reconciliation. Although we should live our lives showing ultimate respect for our King, we need to be careful about covering up our flaws and potential for error. Self-righteousness does not convince anyone that God wants to reconcile.


2 Corinthians 5:19-21
...That God was reconciling the world to himself in Christ, not counting men's sins against them. And he has committed to us the message of reconciliation. We are therefore Christ's ambassadors, as though God were making his appeal through us. We implore you on Christ's behalf: Be reconciled to God. God made him who had no sin to be sin for us, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.

your welcome heron. glad it was good for you because i get tired of things only being good for me :)

and with that verse that you quoted, i completely agree with it. the we part is where i get stuck on tho. i wish Christianity wasn't in this state that it is in. i wonder what it was like to see Christianity unified. and that is why i'm more about the "us", than the "individiuals."

God Bless you! <><
 
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FLANDIDLYANDERS

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St. Peter, on whom Jesus wished to build Church, rejected the name Christian as it no longer represented what he held to be dear. Ironic - the division between Church and Christian began at their very inception, it seems.
 
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Im_A

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freewilly said:
Who is the church though, is the church an entity in and of itself? I see the church as the roof and we are the pillars, the columns that hold it up. It is the sum of its' parts. If a column is weak then the structure will begin to fail.

I agree that we will never be perfect in our representation of Christ but we should at least bear some resemblance.

i just see it as, if the church is the body, then the individual representation can only go far. sure, i want to be like Christ as best as i can. but i don't take the sole responsibility on myself. not meaning to say anything weird here. but we are a family, a family/body that represents the Kingdom of God, thus making us all ambassadors, and we all do our part.

you asked if i believe the church is a seperate entity. well then i guess the true question is, what is the church?

plus i see both sides. i mean the individual representation makes sense. we're disciples correct? but representations have to be perfect. and we can't be. we can try our best, but to truly amulate Jesus, we have to be perfect, and that's something we cannot be. so either we do our best with our muddy representation that will always come off as hypocritical, or the representation is universal amongst all believers. i choose the latter, because it's easier to not be a hypocrite when we are relying on one another.
 
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Entrench

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No one is asking you to perfectly represent Christ. i can't, you can't, no one can. my only point was that just because you can't always live by The Word all the time, doesn't mean we have to forsake it for the fact of "we can't be that anyway". Jesus' ministry was built on love, not arguing and debating as to whether humans were perfect. In fact, rather than praise the heads of the church, he praised the faithful sinner. God asks for honesty with yourself. No one can change themselves, but God can change you. WE are the church...if every church building in the world burned down at the same time, there would still be a church. God's people are the church. And in His Word, He asks us to share His love with the world. That was my only point, i apologize if i offended your belief.

Entrenched in Christ,
...
 
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printerr

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tattedsaint said:
to me?

the church is the representation of Christ. hence the body. we as individuals aren't the representation. scriptures clearly tell us that we will never reach the mark correct? so how can an imperfect being be representing a perfect being? that's a contradiction. the Bible does say that faith justifys us to God correct? well still even then, people still our struggles. so i don't want defy the name of Christ to give me a sense of mental thoughts that i'm strong, because our strengths will always fail at some point. it's just reality.

i don't represent the Christ. i'm not worth that job title and i don't believe anyone is worth that title. but what i do feel called is to do the Great Commission of Christ. to make disciples the best i can. what i do feel my job is, to present the Gospel for people, to hopefully they see light, life and love in that. then they can meet Christ themselves, or together we'll meet Him. they will not see me being self-righteous anymore. they will see my humility, my weaknesses. they will see, another human being just as they are.

plus, i don't know if i buy into the idea of playing someone else's shoes. all i can do is be me, the human being that i am, striving to always be the best i can be, and live holy in my convictions, show Jesus the best i can, and just live.

that's why i don't get the idea that we are representatives. i see the church as the representation. that makes more Biblical sense to me even. and even with that, sometimes we do see bad representation, but we can always find good representation. and that's what i think we need to do our best to be a part of, instead of playing someone else's shoes :) God Bless you! <><
As the song by Casting Crowns goes.....

"If we are the body,
Why aren't His arms reaching?
Why aren't His hands healing?
Why aren't His words teaching?
And if we are the body
Why aren't His feet going?
Why is His love not showing them there is a way?
There is a way"


Terrie
 
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