Hurricane Katrina: prayers and legal thoughts

Bookofknowledge · Sep 6, 2005

Prayers:
No doubt even the wild animals cooperate with others when there is fire in the jungle and we see same example in humans time to time. May those who died rest in peace and those who are still alive find peace and solace.

Legal thought:
Can you claim the devastation appearing is caused and allowed by your God?

looking4wisdom · Sep 6, 2005

Who can speak for God? Hurricane Katrina was an act of nature...Nature was created by God. I don't think the man upstairs got bored and decided to send us a devastating hurricane. Same is true for the tsunami last year. Devestatings acts of nature happen.

Montalban · Sep 6, 2005

Bookofknowledge said:
Legal thought:
Can you claim the devastation appearing is caused and allowed by your God?

Write to
http://www.law.cornell.edu/

Bookofknowledge · Sep 6, 2005

The question is not simple as it seems.

Those who believe in God believes this world is the Creation of God hence the human life itself is the creation and coming into this world and going from this world is nothing but by the command of God.

So can you believe your God can kill people or allow people to be killed by such devastating hurricane?

Oxy2Hydr0 · Sep 6, 2005

Good question Bookofknowledge. Unfortunately many will find them selves dangled in a spiders web on this.

Most non-muslims disassociate such catastrophic events, that takes hundreds of lives, with G-d due to their stuborn self prestige of The Divine One. This is a perfect example of how the insignificant human being does not know G-d as he/she claims to know G-d in their illusionary personal relationship as some profess.

I am supprised though I thought there would be much feed back on this thread, but it seem some may have become bottle necked.

Ric · Sep 6, 2005

Bookofknowledge said:
Prayers:
No doubt even the wild animals cooperate with others when there is fire in the jungle and we see same example in humans time to time. May those who died rest in peace and those who are still alive find peace and solace.

Legal thought:
Can you claim the devastation appearing is caused and allowed by your God?

My prayer:
Dear Father in Heaven,
It is with a sadden heart I come to you with this plea for help for all of the victims in the Gulf Coast area. Please send help for the needy, food for the hungry, water for the ones who can not find clean drinking water, shelter for the exposed, and support from any source you see fit to help all in need. Father, thank you for the rescue workers, and the people who will start the long task of restoration and please keep them all safe from any unforeseen events that could cause any harm or hardships.

I also lift up all of the leaders from the local level to the federal government level so that they may make wise decisions for the benefit of all the people involved.

And most of all dear Father, please send the Holy Spirit to all who do not know you so that you can convict their hearts in a hope that they may know you one day soon.

I ask this in Jesus Christ's Holy Name,
Amen.

My legal thought:
I can not claim anything of such nature for God, but I just rest in assurance that in the end more good will come out of this tragic event due to God's own promise.

Arthra · Sep 7, 2005

I think there's a complex combinations of factors in these large natural disasters such as Katrina which means there was probably some neglect...some factors involving not preparing adequately when there was warning... factors involving climate change due to fossil fuel use... factors involving not being prepared to deal with the disaster because of budget cutbacks and reassignments and so on and so on.

These disasters bring out the best and worst of peoples' nature.

Disasters remind us that life hangs on a fragile thread and we should make the best use of our time left here in helping others and inhancing meaning and significance in our lives.

Along with the above I think our prayers should be with the survivors and for the souls of those who have passsed on and that steps will be taken to avoid the same mistakes in the future....

jlujan69 · Sep 7, 2005

Bookofknowledge said:
The question is not simple as it seems.

Those who believe in God believes this world is the Creation of God hence the human life itself is the creation and coming into this world and going from this world is nothing but by the command of God.

So can you believe your God can kill people or allow people to be killed by such devastating hurricane?

Yes and yes. The Bible is replete with examples of God either directly sending or simply allowing a plague or natural or man made disaster to befall someone or a nation. God sovereignly set this universe and its unfolding in motion for the express purpose of glorifying Himself. When Jesus was asked His thoughts on two tragedies that befell some Jews ( a slaughter of worshippers by the Romans and a tower falling on its builders), He said that instead of asking did they deserve to die, ask if there's anyone who doesn't deserve what they get. Because our sin is a stench in God's nostrils, it's only by His grace and mercy that anyone can receive His forgiveness and have a hope for Heaven. I'm not saying all of the above is the case with this hurricane, only that if it was, it wouldn't be without biblical precedent.

Bevlina · Sep 7, 2005

Bookofknowledge said:
Prayers:
No doubt even the wild animals cooperate with others when there is fire in the jungle and we see same example in humans time to time. May those who died rest in peace and those who are still alive find peace and solace.

Indeed and Amen.

Legal thought:

Click to expand...

Can you claim the devastation appearing is caused and allowed by your God?

No,no. It was an act of Nature. My God is a God of Love. This was just an ordinary, natural act of nature. Viscious, and violent, yes. Hurricanes happen and have done so for centuries and centuries. And, they will continue to happen.

stillsmallvoice · Sep 7, 2005

Hi all!

Oxy2Hydr0 (my friend), you posted:

Most non-muslims disassociate such catastrophic events, that takes hundreds of lives, with G-d due to their stuborn self prestige of The Divine One.

Kindly make an exception in the above for orthodox Jews like myself. What happens in this world that is not in accordance with the will of God? Nothing, of course.

The way I see it, there are certain things that are simply beyond our ken, that are simply beyond our human ability to grasp & that we'll never be able to figure out

.

I look at Deuteronomy 29:28

"The secret things belong unto the Lord our God..."

,

Psalm 131:1-2

Lord, my heart is not haughty, nor mine eyes lofty; neither do I exercise myself in things too great, or in things too wonderful for me. Surely I have stilled and quieted my soul; like a weaned child with his mother; my soul is with me like a weaned child."

,

Isaiah 55:9

For My thoughts are not your thoughts, neither are your ways My ways, says the Lord. For as the heavens are higher than the earth, so are My ways higher than your ways, and My thoughts than your thoughts."

,

and Job 38:2-4

Who is this that darkens counsel by words without knowledge? Gird up now your loins like a man; for I will demand of you, and declare you unto Me. Where were you when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if you have the understanding!

whenever I feel myself getting too big for my spiritual britches.

See also http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=308310 &
http://www.chabad.org/library/article.asp?AID=308185.

Over a Shabbat/Sabbath lunch last year, I learned something neat. DW & I and our lunch guests were discussing the Jewish belief that there is no such thing as coincidences (i.e. nothing "just happens"). One of our guests pointed out to us that if you take the Hebrew word for "coincidence" & spell it backwards, you get "God has woven." Thus, she said, what may appear to us as coincidences are all part of God's plan. This jibes with what a Catholic friend of mine told me once. He said that if you look at a beautifully woven rug or needlepoint from underneath, all you'll see is a disjointed crisscrossed tangle without any pattern or harmony. God, he said is the Master Weaver, but all too often we, with our limited human perspective, manage to see only the crisscrossed tangle. We should never lack the faith that there is a pattern and that a/the Master Weaver is watching over it.

Regarding Katrina, the Chief Rabbinate here composed the following prayer:

Our Heavenly Father, Founder of the world and Creator of the universe, compassionate and merciful God, Please spare and show compassion to Your creatures and the world You have created, and especially the inhabitants of the states along the Gulf of Mexico in the United States. Save them from every calamity, from the winds of storm and hurricane, from the waters of the sea, and from every sorrow and evil, and send deliverance and redemption to all those who call upon Your Name. Save them from the floodwaters and rescue them from the abyss, lead them to a place of safety, and do not abandon them, and in Your abundant mercy send them redemption in the measure of their loss, and complete healing to the sick and those in pain, and comfort to their souls and spirit. May all the inhabitants of the Earth know and recognize that You are the Supreme King, Who rules the powers of the universe and shows mercy to His creatures, who praise Your great Name, amen.

Link: http://tinyurl.com/96y7f

Be well!

ssv :wave:

Ryuuko9 · Sep 7, 2005

Arthra said:
I think there's a complex combinations of factors in these large natural disasters such as Katrina which means there was probably some neglect...some factors involving not preparing adequately when there was warning... factors involving climate change due to fossil fuel use... factors involving not being prepared to deal with the disaster because of budget cutbacks and reassignments and so on and so on.

These disasters bring out the best and worst of peoples' nature.

Disasters remind us that life hangs on a fragile thread and we should make the best use of our time left here in helping others and inhancing meaning and significance in our lives.

Along with the above I think our prayers should be with the survivors and for the souls of those who have passsed on and that steps will be taken to avoid the same mistakes in the future....

Exactly.

I believe that Katrina had very little to do with what many on CF proclaim to be "the wrath of God", but rather, I believe Katrina is a product of our own negligence: many people, including the government, neglected to heed the warning signs of a category 5 storm approaching land, and we, as a human race, are neglecting the warning signs that our planet is warming up. Geologists have known for a few years now that the waters from the Gulf of Mexico have warmed up considerably, and have warned the US Government for years that these were favorable conditions for gigantic storms like Katrina.

God isn't punishing anyone--we are reaping the consequences of our actions.

Oxy2Hydr0 · Sep 7, 2005

Alllaahumma rabbil-'aalameen ! You have mercy on whom you please, you punish whom you please. None has power over nature except you that acts according to your will and command. Your judgement is swift and just, no wrong comes to a soul unless it has brought it upon it self.

You are the one that sends the herald waters and winds from your mercy and grace to provide us with the sustenance of our needs and wants, and you are the one that sends the herald waters and winds from your wrath to punish those for their sins. Verily your are The Just, The Wise, The Almighty.

Oxy2Hydr0 · Sep 7, 2005

stillsmallvoice said:
Kindly make an exception in the above for orthodox Jews like myself. What happens in this world that is not in accordance with the will of God? Nothing, of course.

Why of course. I will confirm that orthadox Jews are exempted from "non-muslims" whom I was addressing. I had to make my statement "vague" rather than specific so people wouldnt report it as an "assault" or "offensive" to avoide being hit with the big "D" if your know what I mean

salam

Mujaalid

Bookofknowledge · Sep 7, 2005

Bevlina said:
No,no. It was an act of Nature. My God is a God of Love. This was just an ordinary, natural act of nature. Viscious, and violent, yes. Hurricanes happen and have done so for centuries and centuries. And, they will continue to happen.

are you saying Nature is not in control of your God? you say your God is a God of Love then why He didn't stop such viscious, violent and devastating hurricane if he didn't sent it in the first place and not to forget it is christians who died?

Do you believe in God who gives life and death? Do you believe in God who punish?

How do you explain your God is only God of Love when during Prophet Musa (AS) God has sent wrath upon wrath from sky and ground so that people can take heed? I am sure you do believe in Musa (AS) right?

stillsmallvoice · Sep 7, 2005

Hi all!

Thanks Oxy2Hydr0!

That Katrina was the will of God ought to be obvious, why it was the will of God, or what His purpose was in effecting this hurricane, is waaay beyond our ken. I have seen radical Muslims assert that God was punishing the US for supporting Israel & fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan. I know of two ptominent rabbis here in Israel who have asserted that God was punishing the US for supporting the Disengagement Plan. I have read where this or that fundamentalist Protestant minister in the US has asserted that God was punishing the US for homosexuality, drunkeness, gambling, younameit. None of them have a clue; none of them can have a clue. The question should not be why Katrina happened but what can we do to help the survivors & the victims, i.e. what good can we do now that it has happened?

Be well!

ssv :wave:

urnotme · Sep 7, 2005

Oxy2Hydr0 said:
Good question Bookofknowledge. Unfortunately many will find them selves dangled in a spiders web on this.

Most non-muslims disassociate such catastrophic events, that takes hundreds of lives, with G-d due to their stuborn self prestige of The Divine One. This is a perfect example of how the insignificant human being does not know G-d as he/she claims to know G-d in their illusionary personal relationship as some profess.

I am supprised though I thought there would be much feed back on this thread, but it seem some may have become bottle necked.

It seems liike on one hand we don't want to blame G-d, but on the other we don't know what else it could be so we just say it was a naturally occuring phenomina.

urnotme · Sep 7, 2005

Bevlina said:
Indeed and Amen.

No,no. It was an act of Nature. My God is a God of Love. This was just an ordinary, natural act of nature. Viscious, and violent, yes. Hurricanes happen and have done so for centuries and centuries. And, they will continue to happen.

God created nature.

Bookofknowledge · Sep 11, 2005

urnotme said:
It seems liike on one hand we don't want to blame G-d, but on the other we don't know what else it could be so we just say it was a naturally occuring phenomina.

do you believe there could be anything else beside God who gives life and death?

urnotme · Sep 11, 2005

Bookofknowledge said:
do you believe there could be anything else beside God who gives life and death?

The devil will give death if we let him, I don't want to blame God but I don't have an explination for it.. I don't know.

Bookofknowledge · Sep 11, 2005

urnotme said:
The devil will give death if we let him, I don't want to blame God but I don't have an explination for it.. I don't know.

which death?

are you saying we have the power to give permission to devil through which the devil can give death to us? wait a min where is your God?

9:116
Surely it is Allah to Whom belongs the kingdom of the heavens and the earth. He gives life and causes to die. You have none besides Allah to protect or to help.

Hurricane Katrina: prayers and legal thoughts

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1 John 5:13

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The Narn rule!

Be Peace.

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The Narn rule!

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