Preterism
- Thread starter Mandy
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Slow down, Mandy. Not so fast.
Those passages I listed are all exactly parallel to each other and they INTERPRET each other. Don't blow by them. Look them up and compare them carefully to each other and you will see they are the same exact language and phrases. They tell us exactly what is meant. I'm asking you to do a little homework so I don't go posting super long posts here.
You should never just look at passages which say the same exact same thing and then say "I don't agree." They say the same thing exactly, so we have to let them teach us what is meant. The bible interprets itself and teaches us the meaning of passages by confirming those sayings with each other. Otherwise you are only guessing, and guessing, and guessing again. That's not how to read the bible.
I have sown you the parallels to St. John's vision passage by passage. Please take one of the passages of Rev 21:1 through 21:4 and let's discuss them and not jump off to some next tangent.
This scriptures come into focus when we see the comparisions -- interpret scripture with scripture.
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I was being sorta silly. Cliff's Notes are shortened versions of large books and novels that students use when they don't have time to read the whole book for class. You can find them at any bookstore. I was simply giving short comments and calling them my version of "Cliff's Notes."
Thought everyone knew about Cliff's Notes.
*Blushes*
God bless.
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Actually, most preterists believe that the bread and wine is the body and blood of Jesus and is the Marriage supper of the Lamb. The only difference between now and in the apostles day is that we are not all falling down dead and sick from it as they were before Christ's return (see 1 Cor 11:28-30)! Praise the Lord for salvation!
For more references on our communion table with God from a fulfilled perspective, click here:
The Lamb's Supper : The Mass As Heaven on Earth
by Scott Hahn
On the Lord's Supper and "Great Commission"
by Ed Stevens
--"The saints from AD 30-70 observed the communion as a liberation from slavery (proclaiming the death of the first-born). The saints after AD 70 now celebrate it as not only a reminder of our deliverance from Egyptian bondage, but as a celebration of taking possession of the promised land. The kingdom was taken away from the (Caananite) Jews at AD 70, and given to a nation producing the fruit of it (the church). The Lord's Supper has even more meaning and purpose now than it ever did. It is a feast in the kingdom at the table of the King, and the feast goes on continuously. Our observance of the Lord?s Supper is a visible covenant symbol of the continual communion we have with Him in His kingdom."
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How did you come to the conclusion that when Jesus spoke of heaven and earth passing away that He was referring to the old covenant considering 2 Peter 3:10 etc.?
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To all,
I split this thread so that Scott's questions on the thread he created would be answered in a more orderly fashion.
I split this thread so that Scott's questions on the thread he created would be answered in a more orderly fashion.
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First, it's important to recognize that Jesus kept his promises. Jesus, speaking to his apostles about what they had to face in building the New Covenant Church, promised them:
Matthew 24:33-34
So likewise YOU [the apostles], when YOU shall see all these things, know that it is near, even at the doors. Verily I say unto you, This generation shall not pass, till all these things be fulfilled.
Jesus kept his promise. The apostles who had to build the New Testament Age Temple of God had to go through the satan's final chance to stop the salvation of the world -- in their generation (see also Matt 23:36). They all went through that great tribulation together (see Luke 21:20-23) in order to usher in the eternal New Covenant Nation, Law, People, and Priesthood reigning with the Lord of all Heaven and Earth (Matthew 28:18).
Next, Parousia is a word that means PRESENCE. In the Old Testament the presence of God abided in the tabernacle and later in Solomon's Temple in the Holy of Holies -- only one man could enter that presence on one day a year (Day of Atonement), and that with a death sentence upon him!
Now that the New Covenant Temple is built ,Christ's eternal presence resides within it and our Temple will never pass away. You asked where God is? Paul tells us:
2 Cor 6:16
For you are the temple of the living God; as God saith: I will dwell in them, and walk among them; and I will be their God, and they shall be my people.
Rev 21:3
"Behold, the tabernacle of God is among men, and He will dwell among them, and they shall be His people, and God Himself will be among them
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Per Erwin's directions I request Auntie_Belle_Um to stop disrupting this thread. I don't go in your threads posting random garbage that doesn't belong in the topic...
Unless you have something useful to contribute to the thread, please stop posting.
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Mandy, no offense, but this post clearly shows how much you are bound by your preconceived notions... A guy named Paul, wrote the following about 2,000 years ago, under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit...BEFORE the destruction of Jerusalem:
"All over the world this gospel is bearing fruit and growing, just as it has been doing among you since the day you heard it and understood Gods grace in all its truth." Col. 1:6
"This is the gospel that you heard and that has been proclaimed to every creature under heaven, and of which I, Paul, have become a servant." Col 1:23
"Now to Him who is able to establish you according to my gospel and the preaching of Jesus Christ, according to the revelation of the mystery which has been kept secret for long ages past, but now is manifested, and by the Scriptures of the prophets, according to the commandment of the eternal God, has been made known to all the nations" Romans 16:25,26
Let's see, according to the BIBLE, 2,000 years ago:
1. The Gospel was bearing fruit and growing all over the world
2. The gospel was proclaimed to every creature under heaven
3. The Gospel was made known to all nations
Now I don't know about you Mandy, but it looks like you are a couple of thousand years late?
I used to believe the same also...that the gospel wasn't preached to the entire world...and then I started reading my Bible...
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Apparently that is not quite what Paul meant considering that there are countries that have not heard the gospel. Which is why there are still missionaries out there still preaching it.
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Therefore it is clear that one of Mandy, Jesus or Paul were wrong. I wonder who that may be.
What exactly do you think Jesus meant when he made the statement in Matthew 24, and why would Paul mean something different? You are skating on thin ice Mandy...Paul was an inspired writer, so he couldn't be "mistaken"..or "mean" something else. He meant the same "world" that Jesus meant...and I gave you not one, but three passages that say the same thing in three different ways, so that someone like you couldn't possibly be mistaken
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Didaskomenos
Voiced Bilabial Spirant
Pericles,
So you want somebody to say, "So Acts 2 records the fulfillment of Jesus' words." Right? Maybe?
So you want somebody to say, "So Acts 2 records the fulfillment of Jesus' words." Right? Maybe?
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armothe
Living in HIS kingdom...
Does anyone realize that not all the countries that are around today, were around in the first century?
Paul states that all nations (at that time) received the message of the gospel. What is to argue with?
Current-day missionaries are out to save people who do not know the gospel. They are not out to fulfill and "end time" prophecy.
-A
Paul states that all nations (at that time) received the message of the gospel. What is to argue with?
Current-day missionaries are out to save people who do not know the gospel. They are not out to fulfill and "end time" prophecy.
-A
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The gospel had not been preached to all the nations in 57 or 58AD, approx 27 years after Jesus was crucified. Many nations were extremely remote and many were not even in existence at the time.
Why then are there people today who have not heard the gospel?
Also if Jesus has already returned, why didn't anyone see fit to document it considering that according to scripture, every eye would see Him? Or was His return symbolic too?
Why then are there people today who have not heard the gospel?
Also if Jesus has already returned, why didn't anyone see fit to document it considering that according to scripture, every eye would see Him? Or was His return symbolic too?
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I would like to see evidence for your claim. I provided three biblical verses that contradict you without any doubt, yet you keep on repeating the same thing...
What evidence do you have to show us that the gospel was not preached to all nations? Paul said the opposite. Why do you disagree with Paul? Blank statements will not get you anywhere...
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