Today's thread on homosexuality: v. Christian website blames hurricane on gays

JunkYardDog said:

Well, let me tell you about a little, world-wide Flood that would make God "not worth believing in" then, Arty. Maybe you should just become an atheist since He is the ONLY God there is.

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And I certainly don't belief in a bunch of old myths about world wide floods.

BOJAX said:

1) I do believe New Orleans is being punished by God
2) I do not need proof nor do I ask for it. I don't believe god has any obligation to give us any "proof".
3)I don't think he was punishing gays only, otherwise, Canada would be all gone by now. I never even heard of that gay festival before, but everyone knows what goes on at Mardi Gras.

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so your belief boils down to "God is punishing them because i say so", correct? i mean, since you're unable to offer any supporting evidence to prove your point, that's the only possible conclusion to come to.

invisible trousers said:

so your belief boils down to "God is punishing them because i say so", correct? i mean, since you're unable to offer any supporting evidence to prove your point, that's the only possible conclusion to come to.

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Let's see. I have a copy of that certificate from God somewhere around here. I thought I filed it with the ones certifying God's judgments for Babylon, Jerusalem, Sodom, Laodicea, Nineveh, Pompeii, and the rest.

newlamb said:

Holo - thanks for your testimony! I may disagree with your opinions, but that's OK!

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Thank you for having that attitude!

Pac Shady said:

Sure, OK Holo, let's all just throw away our Bibles because they are completely useless apparently. We don't NEED to know the Truth, the Truth which sets us free, because all we need is FAITH (in something or other) to be saved (from something or other).

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Shady, if you read my posts again, you'll see that's not what I'm saying. I don't know why you seem to just be angry at me instead of actually discussing these things.

I love the bible, and I'm glad I have the oportunity to read it in it's many translations. However, merely reading and knowing the bible never saved me or anyone else. Yes, we need to know the truth, and the bible itself says that JESUS is the TRUTH.

Not even Paul was saved by his knowledge of scriptures. In fact, he was so blind to the truth that Jesus had to scare him off his horse to get his attention. Truth comes by revelation.

By the way, I used to think "the bible=the word of God" as a matter of fact, but I realized I didn't know why I believed that. And I'm always curious why people do. I'm not saying it's not, but I'd like to know why you, for example, believe the bible is the Word of God, and to what extent. I hope you'll answer that seriously.

Pac Shady said:

God's Word is worthless and not needed to have a relationship with Him, says Pastor Holo. Even though we won't know who God IS, or what His voice sounds like, or what He wants of us, since we don't need to read the Word to find out. We just go with the flow, rely on our own experience, and if the little book says any different, WHO CARES? It's different to what we've experienced. So it must be wrong. No matter it was GOD HIMSELF who SAID it, it contradicts what we experience so it must be not worth worrying about.

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I'm not attacking the bible, I'm questioning the view many christians have of it.

While there are a million advantages to having the bible, I find it curious that I should have to depend more on the book than on God speaking Himself. Because that's how the book came to be, isn't it? The bible does say that the Spirit will reveal all things to us. The story of God and man doesn't end with the last chapter of revelations. Even Jesus said people would do greater works than the ones He did, Paul talks about having dreams and revelations, prophets, interpretation of tongues. So the bible may contain God's word, but He's not done speaking.

I have a lot of honest questions about these things, because they have an enormous impact on how people behave, and I'd really appreciate some real thougts and arguments instead of merely being taken as a heretic of some sort for suggesting that there may be other ways to see things.

porcupine said:

Let's see. I have a copy of that certificate from God somewhere around here. I thought I filed it with the ones certifying God's judgments for Babylon, Jerusalem, Sodom, Laodicea, Nineveh, Pompeii, and the rest.

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babylon: destruction prophesized; isaiah 13:17-14:1 and 14:22-23
jerusalem: destruction prophesized; jeremiah 21:6-10
sodom: angels told them to leave the city; genesis 19:12-13
laodicea: destruction prophesized; revelations 3:14-22
nineveh: destruction prophesized; nahum
pompeii: yeah you're going to have to prove this
new orleans:


one of these things is not like the others. can you tell me which one? i'll give you a hint it happened recently

invisible trousers said:

so your belief boils down to "God is punishing them because i say so", correct? i mean, since you're unable to offer any supporting evidence to prove your point, that's the only possible conclusion to come to.

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where's your "supporting evidence" to prove that it wasn't god punishing them?

invisible trousers said:

babylon: destruction prophesized; isaiah 13:17-14:1 and 14:22-23
jerusalem: destruction prophesized; jeremiah 21:6-10
sodom: angels told them to leave the city; genesis 19:12-13
laodicea: destruction prophesized; revelations 3:14-22
nineveh: destruction prophesized; nahum
pompeii: yeah you're going to have to prove this
new orleans:


one of these things is not like the others. can you tell me which one? i'll give you a hint it happened recently

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how do you know what is and isn't an act of god?

invisible trousers said:

babylon: destruction prophesized; isaiah 13:17-14:1 and 14:22-23
jerusalem: destruction prophesized; jeremiah 21:6-10
sodom: angels told them to leave the city; genesis 19:12-13
laodicea: destruction prophesized; revelations 3:14-22
nineveh: destruction prophesized; nahum
pompeii: yeah you're going to have to prove this
new orleans:


one of these things is not like the others. can you tell me which one? i'll give you a hint it happened recently

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The one's where there was prophecy would not have been known AT THE TIME. God is not required to certify every judgment for your benefit. You are like the gutter punks in my town who want "proof" of God. You are very foolish.

Woah,
no need for the comparisons and the put-downs

BOJAX said:

where's your "supporting evidence" to prove that it wasn't god punishing them?

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oh i like this game!

i think God enjoys watching people die of starvation. He sent the hurricane so He could get some cheap laughs. where's your supporting evidence to prove that God didn't send the hurricane for this reason

also there's a little alpaca in my room right now wearing a top hat and monocle. where's your supporting evidence to prove that there isn't one in my room?

how do you know what is and isn't an act of god?

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well obviously i don't, but i think it's much safer than claiming you know what is an act of God. i consider God to be rational. claiming to punish new orleans because of homosexuality but instead screwing up and killing a bunch of poor and innocent people is not rational at all. since God can't be irrational i feel pretty safe in saying the hurricane was not a punishment.

porcupine said:

The one's where there was prophecy would not have been known AT THE TIME.

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kids, now would be a great time to open up your bibles and read the passages in question.

God is not required to certify every judgment for your benefit.

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true. however you should keep in mind that what you think God's judgement was, and God's actual "judgement" (if any at that) are two different things.

You are like the gutter punks in my town who want "proof" of God. You are very foolish.

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please stop it's like you're slowly twisting a knife through my heart

BOJAX said:

Woah,
no need for the comparisons and the put-downs

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actually i think they're pretty interesting; they reflect well on both the validity of his beliefs and his heart.

Sam Gamgee said:

http://www.repentamerica.com/pr_hurricanekatrina.html

What a great website this is... showing great ethics in bringing people to Christ.... (he says, sarcastically)

And people say being gay is a choice... like I choose to deal with idiots like this on a daily basis.

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I didn't really read the site's information until today. I just thought it was the usually obscure stuff people dig up so they can rant against Christianity, Christian values they don't like or Christians in general. Now that I have read it, I fail to see the basis for a complaint.

At IT's urging, I decided to go and see if there were prophecies about the New Orleans situation. I am familiar with Elijah's List, but I don't read it regularly, but this is what I found:

August 29, 2004


After Chuck discussed traveling from Wisconsin directly to Louisiana, he prophesied:

"From the North to the South I am ready to awaken two winds that will awake the nation. There are resisting forces in both states that will cause our nation to not move forward. Go up and down and decree the wind of God will awaken in both places. The states will shift in a new way or the nation will not shift and will go backwards."


Later when addressing the Saul structure in Baton Rouge, Chuck prophesied:

"How the Saul structure collapses will bring Baton Rouge again to national attention. That alignment within it will collapse. A new demonstration with a new blueprint will be seen. This will be known as a meeting house. This will be known as a place where the Ark of the Covenant has dwelt. This will be known as a refuge place. The WIND and WATER will rise in the midst of New Orleans. Many from the south will come north for refuge. Prepare. Prepare now for winds and water that will surprise you. I will renew the pattern not fully seen before. Worship will be here, and birthed in a new way from here. Prepare! Prepare! Prepare! Shift! Saul will be no more. David will arise from this day forward. The wind from the south will begin to blow. Watch for the effects. This will purify the land and bring great change."

Then in Alexandria that night Chuck shared from Song of Solomon 4:16 (Awake the north wind; come, o south wind. Blow upon the garden of this nation). He led the people to pray for the south wind to come. This south wind would be a purifying wind, cause corruption to be blown on and cause corruption to shake and initiate a righteous move starting with the children, then moving to the youth. We were to watch the government and the Catholic Church shake, and watch New Orleans change.

http://elijahlist.com/words/display_word.html?ID=2459

Here is whhat the guy who runs Elijah's List says now about that:

. . .
where Chuck emphasized that those involved must "Prepare. Prepare. Prepare," I admit that I assumed that this prophecy was warning about the impending Hurricane Ivan. But Ivan missed New Orleans. However, please MAKE SPECIAL NOTE: In the below prophecy, given one year ago on the EXACT date of the date that Hurricane Katrina is slated to hit New Orleans -- a city built well below sea level, and a city that 40 years ago was half immersed underwater from a similar hurricane -- Chuck's prophecy included quotes such as:

"This will purify the land and bring great change." (Chuck Pierce, August 29, 2004)



and:

"I will fill churches. The south, purifying wind of My holiness will sweep across Louisiana. People will be on their faces in malls and shopping centers." (Chuck Pierce, August 20, 2004)



Ivan (last year's hurricane by that name) means: "God's Gracious Gift."



But, Katrina (the hurricane named by that name on it's way to hit New Orleans) means: "Form of KATHERINE. PURE, Virginal"

(Both meanings above come from: http://pregnancy.parenthood.com/babynames_searchresults.html

This prophetic word, given exactly a year ago, was about change and PURIFICATION. Katrina means "PURE."

I cannot and AM NOT saying that this is "that" which Chuck talks about below. I can only say that if I lived in that area, I'd get out of there; I'd take this seriously, and I'd watch and pray for purification to hit this area.

Here is the full text of the prophetic word by Chuck Pierce, EXACTLY ONE YEAR AGO, August 29, 2004. In the Bible, God often prophesied things that came true "next year, about this time."

Please watch and pray for life to be preserved, and pray that purification does indeed happen.

Blessings, and I'm "on watch," on the wall, praying for life and praying for purification with YOU!

Steve Shultz

JunkYardDog said:

Katrina means "PURE."

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Or maybe it doesn't:
http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=katherine

Torture might fit the bill quite well.

ebia said:

Or maybe it doesn't:
http://www.behindthename.com/php/view.php?name=katherine

Torture might fit the bill quite well.

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Pure torture?

Before this disaster, I thought of New Orleans being the home of Jazz music, Good food, and Mardi Gra. ( and I dont even know much about the roots of Mardi Gra) but the more reading I do, Im finding out how much voodoo, black magic, satan worshipping that was practice there. Just a thought...but I would think that if God DID put his finger on this disaster because of the homosexual sins of the town....I would think that it would be because of the evil practices of devil worshipping before anything else. or maybe its both....or neither and it was just a coincidence. Guess we will find out for sure when we get to heaven.

JunkYardDog said:

The one's where there was prophecy would not have been known AT THE TIME. God is not required to certify every judgment for your benefit. You are like the gutter punks in my town who want "proof" of God. You are very foolish.

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Everyone wants proof of God. I want proof of God. There is nothing wrong with wanting proof.

AS for those "gutter punks" - why don't you climb into those gutters and try to reach those "punks"? Or are they too far beneath you to be saved? At least - that is what your attitude says.

AS for the OP - You guys are just like everyone else - you want to cast blame before we even have a chance to count the dead. It's sad.

GutterRat said:

Everyone wants proof of God. I want proof of God. There is nothing wrong with wanting proof.

AS for those "gutter punks" - why don't you climb into those gutters and try to reach those "punks"? Or are they too far beneath you to be saved? At least - that is what your attitude says.

AS for the OP - You guys are just like everyone else - you want to cast blame before we even have a chance to count the dead. It's sad.

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I don't hate the gutter punks. I go to the gutters in hopes that they may hear and believe the gospel. I preach, I feed, I listen to their woes. (BTW, in my day, I lived in the gutters.) However, the fact remains that many of them demand the I prove God's existence. The level of proof always changes to being something just beyond anything anyone could provide -- much like those here who demand proof of God's hand in Katrina.

The only proof God will give some times is to those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear. If you refuse the proof He gives on the basic level, you will never get further proof. Romans tells us that proof of God and His character is everywhere around us. If we refuse to respond to that, no more proof will be offered. If we respond, He gives more.

I know you will think this is callous, but let the dead bury the dead. (Jesus said that, BTW.) The people of NO need to look at what has happened and take account for their souls. That is far more important than "counting the dead."

BTW, if you actually read the article posted by the OP, you would know that the headline is not correct. Repent America said that NO was tolerant of MANY evils INCLUDING Mardi Gras and Southern Decadence and it was this allowing of many evils that was the source of judgment. The OP said they blamed it "on gays" which is not true. (Violation: Commandment 9.)

The article says this:

"Although the loss of lives is deeply saddening, this act of God destroyed a wicked city," stated Repent America director Michael Marcavage. "From 'Girls Gone Wild' to 'Southern Decadence,' New Orleans was a city that had its doors wide open to the public celebration of sin. From the devastation may a city full of righteousness emerge," he continued.

New Orleans was also known for its Mardi Gras parties where thousands of drunken men would revel in the streets to exchange plastic jewelry for drunken women to expose their breasts and to engage in other sex acts. This annual event sparked the creation of the "Girls Gone Wild" video series. Furthermore, Louisiana had a total of ten abortion clinics with half of them operating in New Orleans, where countless numbers of children were murdered at the hands of abortionists. Additionally, New Orleans has always been known as one of the "Murder Capitals of the World" with a rate ten times the national average.

"We must help and pray for those ravaged by this disaster, but let us not forget that the citizens of New Orleans tolerated and welcomed the wickedness in their city for so long," Marcavage said. "May this act of God cause us all to think about what we tolerate in our city limits, and bring us trembling before the throne of Almighty God," Marcavage concluded.

"[God] sendeth rain on the just and on the unjust." (Matthew 5:45)

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invisible trousers said:

oh i like this game!

i think God enjoys watching people die of starvation. He sent the hurricane so He could get some cheap laughs. where's your supporting evidence to prove that God didn't send the hurricane for this reason

You're telling us what God thinks now?

also there's a little alpaca in my room right now wearing a top hat and monocle. where's your supporting evidence to prove that there isn't one in my room?

Sounds like an argument I hear all the time from non-belivers. Where's your faith at?

well obviously i don't, but i think it's much safer than claiming you know what is an act of God. i consider God to be rational. claiming to punish new orleans because of homosexuality but instead screwing up and killing a bunch of poor and innocent people is not rational at all. since God can't be irrational i feel pretty safe in saying the hurricane was not a punishment.

Are they really "innocent"? As sinners, we deserve much worse. God brings good out of bad times though. Maybe it is his way of strengthening people's faith, I dunno.

kids, now would be a great time to open up your bibles and read the passages in question.


true. however you should keep in mind that what you think God's judgement was, and God's actual "judgement" (if any at that) are two different things.

Tell us about God's judgement


please stop it's like you're slowly twisting a knife through my heart



actually i think they're pretty interesting; they reflect well on both the validity of his beliefs and his heart.

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Why do you question his beliefs?

My point is not any one of us knows for sure why God sent the hurricane but if everything is sent down by God than there must be a reason for it. I believe it was for punishment, not just of homosexuals but they way they live in that city. All the debauchery, etc. We can't go and say things like. Oh, Vegas is worse for that type of thing or Canada just legalized gay marriage, why doesn't God go after them. None of us know God's motives. They are beyond our understanding. He does things in his own time and for his own will and purpose. To say that mine or any others opinions or beliefs are invalid is a very conceited thing to say.

JunkYardDog said:

I don't hate the gutter punks. I go to the gutters in hopes that they may hear and believe the gospel. I preach, I feed, I listen to their woes. (BTW, in my day, I lived in the gutters.) However, the fact remains that many of them demand the I prove God's existence. The level of proof always changes to being something just beyond anything anyone could provide -- much like those here who demand proof of God's hand in Katrina.

The only proof God will give some times is to those who have eyes to see, and ears to hear. If you refuse the proof He gives on the basic level, you will never get further proof. Romans tells us that proof of God and His character is everywhere around us. If we refuse to respond to that, no more proof will be offered. If we respond, He gives more.

I know you will think this is callous, but let the dead bury the dead. (Jesus said that, BTW.) The people of NO need to look at what has happened and take account for their souls. That is far more important than "counting the dead."

BTW, if you actually read the article posted by the OP, you would know that the headline is not correct. Repent America said that NO was tolerant of MANY evils INCLUDING Mardi Gras and Southern Decadence and it was this allowing of many evils that was the source of judgment. The OP said they blamed it "on gays" which is not true. (Violation: Commandment 9.)

The article says this:

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Personally, I am not using this event to place blame on anyone. It serves as a huge wake up call for me. I would rather believe it was punishment of sin by the hand of God so I can repent and know that Jesus is near than to think that, " Oh, it is just another natural disaster, no need to repent because Jesus isn't coming back anytime soon." That is the good that can come from this thing. A lot of people can be saved out of this hurricane.