The creationist business model (Or: Why I think creationism is just a cult)

Pete Harcoff · Aug 31, 2005

I've been doing more thinking about what creationist organizations actually do. Y'know, what great advancements they have acheived, contributions to society, services rendered, etc.

And really, it ain't a whole lot. They generally seem to do "research" on creationism, talk about creationism, and sell swag about creationism.

The way I see it, the creationist business model is as follows:

1. Collect donations from creationists (donations account for >70% of the revenues for AiG[sup]1[/sup] and ICR[sup]2[/sup])
2. Produce creationist materials (articles, talks, books, etc) about creationism for their followers
3. Use those materials and their followers to recruit new creationists
4. Repeat as neccessary

This whole attempt to teach creationism in schools seems just another tool to recruit more followers so they can collect more donations and then recruit even more followers. It really is just a cult.

1 http://www.ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_SumRpt.asp?EIN=330596423
2 http://www.ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_SumRpt.asp?EIN=953523177

tocis · Aug 31, 2005

Agreed.

Jimmy The Hand · Aug 31, 2005

I've always wondered why drdino is a .com and not a .org. I mean .org is available. Then I realized that non-profit and some things just don't fit.

Arcade · Aug 31, 2005

What has evolution done? Nothing. All branches of science were started by creationists. Name me one that's been started by an evolutionist.

MSBS · Aug 31, 2005

Arcade said:
What has evolution done? Nothing. All branches of science were started by creationists. Name me one that's been started by an evolutionist.

Bioinformatics

Pete Harcoff · Aug 31, 2005

Arcade said:
What has evolution done? Nothing. All branches of science were started by creationists. Name me one that's been started by an evolutionist.

Completely utterly irrelevant. Creationists may have been involved in pioneering branches of science, but none of them used creationism to do so.

Meanwhile, evolution has its uses in fields like medicine, agriculture, engineering and so on...

Split Rock · Aug 31, 2005

Pete Harcoff said:
I've been doing more thinking about what creationist organizations actually do. Y'know, what great advancements they have acheived, contributions to society, services rendered, etc.

And really, it ain't a whole lot. They generally seem to do "research" on creationism, talk about creationism, and sell swag about creationism.

The way I see it, the creationist business model is as follows:

1. Collect donations from creationists (donations account for >70% of the revenues for AiG[sup]1[/sup] and ICR[sup]2[/sup])
2. Produce creationist materials (articles, talks, books, etc) about creationism for their followers
3. Use those materials and their followers to recruit new creationists
4. Repeat as neccessary

This whole attempt to teach creationism in schools seems just another tool to recruit more followers so they can collect more donations and then recruit even more followers. It really is just a cult.

1 http://www.ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_SumRpt.asp?EIN=330596423
2 http://www.ministrywatch.com/mw2.1/F_SumRpt.asp?EIN=953523177

It's a vicious cycle!

Pete Harcoff · Aug 31, 2005

Oh, and in case anyone else wants to go on about the usefulness of evolution, read this first. Show me where creationism (i.e. the application of creationist ideas) has achieved anything even remotely close.

tocis · Sep 2, 2005

Arcade said:
What has evolution done? Nothing. All branches of science were started by creationists. Name me one that's been started by an evolutionist.

Strange how all those creationists were quite busily "converting", so to say, to the evolutionary explanation once it became available, no?

Will you explain this historical fact with anything scientific, anything except the old tired claim of a "satanic (or whatever) conspiracy", anything not rebutted a zillion times, sometimes a whole century ago?

By the way, strange also that this so-called "controversy" about science and creationism doesn't exist anywhere in the world except in the most zealously religious country in the whole western world, no?

I guess I should go back to sleep. Chances are that this one, like all those before him, will not be able to come up with anything that hasn't been said and debunked before...

...but then, you never know...

...so, Arcade, I'm waiting. Well, waiting and going on to read the rest of this thread.

Douglaangu v2.0 · Sep 2, 2005

This whole attempt to teach creationism in schools seems just another tool to recruit more followers so they can collect more donations and then recruit even more followers. It really is just a cult.

Well, yea of course. They've already, you know, done all the christian things like ending world poverty, now they just using the money left over to build 25 million dollar museums.

Wait...I think I've got it backwards...

Mystman · Sep 2, 2005

*steers the thread back on topic*

I really wonder what Jesus would say about people getting filthy rich by selling books filled with PRATTs (lies..), and that all in His name.

I'm sure He wouldn't be awefully happy about it.

BeamMeUpScotty · Sep 2, 2005

Jimmy The Hand said:
I've always wondered why drdino is a .com and not a .org. I mean .org is available. Then I realized that non-profit and some things just don't fit.

You should also wonder about the "dr" part:

[font=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]The Dissertation Kent Hovind Doesn't Want You to Read[/font]

[font=Book Antiqua, Times New Roman, Times]A Review of Kent Hovind's Thesis by Karen Bartelt, Ph.D.[/font]

FSTDT · Sep 2, 2005

The other night, I saw a very disturbing informercial featuring proven con-artist Peter Popoff selling "miracle spring water", which among other things he claims will magically pay your bills and cure cancer.

This is not only very distasteful and manipulative, but criminal behavior. Popoff should bear complete responsibility for the deaths and serious injuries of people who forgo real medical treatment as a result of using his product.

AnEmpiricalAgnostic · Sep 2, 2005

Mystman said:
*steers the thread back on topic*

Mystman said:
I really wonder what Jesus would say about people getting filthy rich by selling books filled with PRATTs (lies..), and that all in His name.

I'm sure He wouldn't be awefully happy about it.

Ive often thought about this myself. There can be only two conclusions; 1. These people are 100% self deluded into thinking this is their gods way of rewarding them and further proof that what they are doing is right. OR 2. They are as hard core atheist as they come and have decided to cash in on the stupid creationists. I must say, I can see how the temptation of the later could be irresistible to some.

Karl - Liberal Backslider · Sep 2, 2005

I wonder this myself. I mean apart from the patent nimrods like Kent Hovind, the more sensible (i.e. not certifiable) creationists must realise exactly how weedy their scientific basis is.

I think it's a strange kind of faith. Creationists believe in silver bullets. They fire them against the scientific nosferatu from time to time on these boards - alas, they find that the books lied and silver does not slay the big bad werescientist. Think about it - SLoT, No New Information, Were You There?, Why Are There Still Monkeys - these are all silver bullets that the firers mistakenly believe will slay evolution stone dead in a single refutation.

And the Creationist originators - AiG, ICR are searching for the silver bullets they know must exist - because that is what their faith is - the belief that somewhere God has planted the scientific evidence that shows evolution is wrong.

But they're looking for the wrong thing. They should really be ignoring evolution and developing their own model, and then show how the predictions of their models are a better fit to observed reality than the predictions of the current models.

DailyBlessings · Sep 2, 2005

Mystman said:
*steers the thread back on topic*

I really wonder what Jesus would say about people getting filthy rich by selling books filled with PRATTs (lies..), and that all in His name.

I'm sure He wouldn't be awefully happy about it.

No... One might expect something like this:

John 2:13-16
When it was almost time for the Jewish Passover, Jesus went up to Jerusalem. In the temple courts he found men selling cattle, sheep and doves, and others sitting at tables exchanging money. So he made a whip out of cords, and drove all from the temple area, both sheep and cattle; he scattered the coins of the money changers and overturned their tables. To those who sold doves he said, "Get these out of here! How dare you turn my Father's house into a market!"

Hydra009 · Sep 2, 2005

Karl - Liberal Backslider said:
But they're looking for the wrong thing. They should really be ignoring evolution and developing their own model, and then show how the predictions of their models are a better fit to observed reality than the predictions of the current models.

Yeah, but that would involve scientific (as opposed to pseudoscientific) methodology, which these organizations either can't or wouldn't do, and also the realization - even among creationists - that no other scientific theory can explain genetic changes in species better than the ToE, (hence the acceptance of "microevolution") which can't be fully acknowledged for religious reasons.

In this case, it's less like fighting with silver bullets and more like jousting windmills.

LittleNipper · Sep 2, 2005

Pete Harcoff said:
Completely utterly irrelevant. Creationists may have been involved in pioneering branches of science, but none of them used creationism to do so.

Meanwhile, evolution has its uses in fields like medicine, agriculture, engineering and so on...

Evolution is not being used. What is being used is what has always been known as APPLIED SCIENCE. Horticulturalists essentially do the same thing. They selectively cross pollinate flowering vegitation to BREED a pure strain variation. Their creative work has not produced a veggitoid. Neither does one seem to be in the works, either "experimentally" or "naturally".

LittleNipper · Sep 2, 2005

Actually, I feel that evolutionists are far more the breed cults are made from. Evolution becomes their way of thinking, interacting and responding...

AngryNotice · Sep 2, 2005

Mystman said:
*steers the thread back on topic*

I really wonder what Jesus would say about people getting filthy rich by selling books filled with PRATTs (lies..), and that all in His name.

I'm sure He wouldn't be awefully happy about it.

well, in todays society people find different ways to make a living. they arent necessarily lying, just holding back the truth. Evolutionists do this all the time.

The creationist business model (Or: Why I think creationism is just a cult)

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