parousia70:
Preterism takes the following key verses literally:
(Mat 10:23)...
Matthew 10:23 says the disciples won't go over all the cities of Israel before Jesus comes. They didn't, we haven't, and he hasn't. The prophecy will be fulfilled because he will come again before all the cities of Israel have been gone over by his disciples.
Matthew 16:28 says they will "see the Son of man coming in his kingdom," which was fulfilled at the transfiguration (2 Peter 1:16-18).
Matthew 16:28 doesn't say Jesus' 2nd coming had to be in the lifetime of the apostles. Matthew 16:28 was fulfilled in Matthew 17:1-2, just as Mark 9:1 was fulfilled in Mark 9:2.
Matthew 23:36 says the judgment will come upon "this generation." But note that that generation (genea) includes those who killed Zacharias in the temple (Matthew 23:35-36, 2 Chronicles 24:20-22), and those who will reject the Lord until they see his 2nd coming (Matthew 23:39), so there genea refers to the nation of the Jews throughout their entire history. Note that genea is translated as nation in Philippians 2:15, so it has more than one meaning.
In the parable of the fig tree, I believe Jesus was saying that the generation that saw the re-establishment of the nation of physical Israel (the rebudding of the fig tree) would see the tribulation and 2nd coming (Matthew 24:32-34). The nation of physical Israel was re-established in 1948 and I believe a generation is 70 years, for Psalm 90:10 speaks of how long it takes for a generation to pass away, which is exactly what Jesus refers to.
Matthew 26:64 says Jesus told the high priest that he would see Jesus coming in the clouds of heaven. Even those in Hades who pierced him will see the Lord's coming (Revelation 1:7) after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-30), for they can see beyond their place of torment (Luke 16:23).
I believe Luke 21:24 refers to the same treading down of Jerusalem as Revelation 11:2, which was not fulfilled by the Roman siege of Jerusalem, for John didn't prophesy Revelation 11 until more than 20 years after the destruction of Jerusalem, nor can a surrounding of a city's walls and a treading under foot of a city be equated, nor did 2 Thessalonians 2:4 or such events as described in great detail in Revelation 11 and Revelation 13 occur during the Roman siege.
GW:
...The apostles and Christ unanimously taught the second coming was to be in their generation before all the apostles had died...
Christ's 2nd coming will be immediately after the tribulation (Matthew 24:29-31), will be seen by every eye (Revelation 1:7, Matthew 24:30), will bring the resurrection and rapture of the entire church (1 Corinthians 15:23, 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17), and will destroy the Antichrist (2 Thessalonians 2:8).
At the same time that the resurrection happens, all those who are still alive and in Christ will be changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:51-53). None of these things happen to Paul or to the apostles or to anyone since their time.
...It is clear that it cannot be that everyone who reads Matthew 24 lives through those events described therein...
...just as the Apostles who first heard Matthew 24 did not live through those events described therein, for in no history do we find that in the time of the Apostles the stars fell from heaven and the sign of the Son of man appeared in heaven, at which all the tribes of the earth mourned; nor does any history describe how all the tribes of the earth saw when the Son of man came in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory and sent his angels with a great sound of a trumpet and they gathered together his elect from the four winds, from one end of heaven to the other (Matthew 24:29-31). None of this has been fulfilled. No doubt this is why Jesus commanded the apostles to pass on every single thing he taught them to those they preached to (Matthew 28:20).
The stones of the Wailing Wall stood in the time of Jesus just as they do now; they have not yet been thrown down.
...the abomination of desolation...
I believe the abomination of desolation (Matthew 24:15) is when the Antichrist will sit in a rebuilt Jewish temple and proclaim himself God (2 Thessalonians 2:3-4, compare Daniel 11:31, 36).
...I believe that you have made Matthew 24 an allegory for all peoples of all times...
Rather, a literal prophecy for all its readers up until the 2nd coming.
...the Holy inspired apostles said it was their generation (James 5:3; Heb 1:1-2; 1 Peter 1:20; Acts 2:15-17; 1 Cor 10:11...
While the "last days" began as early as Pentecost (Acts 2:16-17), and the end of the world will indeed come upon the church (1 Corinthians 10:11), still "the end" is not yet (Matthew 24:6, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-3).
...the dead are in Heaven now -- so it is clear that they were raised...
When their bodies die, I believe it says the spirits of believers currently go into heaven to be with the Lord (2 Corinthians 5:6-8, Philippians 1:21-24, Luke 23:43, Luke 23:46, Acts 7:59).
...If Christ has not returned then none of the dead have yet escaped out of Hades...
I believe that before the former OT (now NT) saints died they were saved as much as was possible before the cross and Pentecost had been accomplished:
"God... preached before the gospel unto Abraham" (Galatians 3:8); "Your father Abraham rejoiced to see my day: and he saw it, and was glad" (John 8:56); "They drank of that spiritual Rock that followed them: and that Rock was Christ" (1 Corinthians 10:4); "Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt" (Hebrews 11:26); "These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth" (Hebrews 11:13); "They desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city" (Hebrews 11:16).
I believe that after the resurrection Jesus went and preached to them: "Being put to death in the flesh, but quickened by the Spirit: By which also he went and preached unto the spirits in prison" (1 Peter 3:18-19); "For this cause was the gospel preached also to them that are dead" (1 Peter 4:6); and that he led them up into heaven with him when he ascended: "When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men. (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth? He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)" (Ephesians 4:8-10)
I believe the Mosaic covenant was abolished on the cross: "Blotting out the handwriting of ordinances that was against us, which was contrary to us, and took it out of the way, nailing it to his cross" (Colossians 2:14); "There is verily a disannulling of the commandment going before for the weakness and unprofitableness thereof" (Hebrews 7:18); so that Christ was able to join all the former OT (now NT) saints and all the NT saints into one new body: "Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man" (Ephesians 2:15); "There is one body, and one Spirit, even as ye are called in one hope of your calling; One Lord, one faith, one baptism, One God and Father of all" (Ephesians 4:4-6); which body is the church (Ephesians 1:22-23) and the bride (Ephesians 5:30-32).
...Jesus Christ was the First Resurrection...
Jesus said "I am THE resurrection" (John 11:25). The question for us is, when are we who believe in Jesus first resurrected?
I believe no one but Christ has yet been resurrected into an immortal body, because it says "every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming" (1 Corinthians 15:23). Christ's 2nd coming has not yet occurred, so no one but Christ can have yet been resurrected.
Secondly, it says ALL "they that are Christ's" will be resurrected and changed at the 2nd coming: "Every man in his own order: Christ the firstfruits; afterward they that are Christ's at his coming... We shall ALL be changed, In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible" (1 Corinthians 15:23, 51-53). We that are Christ's are all resurrected at the same time, so no one but Christ can have yet been resurrected.
I believe "the 1st resurrection" (Revelation 20:6) will include those "beheaded for the witness of Jesus, and for the word of God, and which had not worshipped the beast, neither his image, neither had received his mark upon their foreheads, or in their hands" (Revelation 20:4), which refers back to the events of Revelation 13.
Because neither Revelation 13 nor Revelation 19, that is, neither the tribulation nor the 2nd coming, have happened yet, neither can the resurrection have happened yet.
"In the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage" (Matthew 22:30).
"Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection" (Luke 20:36).
The resurrection has not happened yet. We are still in mortal bodies. We still marry and we still die.
To say the resurrection has happened is to overthrow our faith and hope:
"Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some" (2 Timothy 2:18).
"Continue in the faith grounded and settled, and be not moved away from the hope of the gospel" (Colossians 1:23).
"The hope and resurrection of the dead" (Acts 23:6).
"Hope toward God... that there shall be a resurrection of the dead" (Acts 24:15).
"We are saved by hope: but hope that is seen is not hope: for what a man seeth, why doth he yet hope for? But if we hope for that we see not, then do we with patience wait for it" (Romans 8:24-25).
"If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable" (1 Corinthians 15:19).
"Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Saviour Jesus Christ" (Titus 2:13).
"It doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be like him; for we shall see him as he is. And every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even as he is pure" (1 John 3:2-3).
"Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, which according to his abundant mercy hath begotten us again unto a lively hope by the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead... Wherefore gird up the loins of your mind, be sober, and hope to the end for the grace that is to be brought unto you at the revelation of Jesus Christ" (1 Peter 1:3, 13).
...the Thessalonian saints are still suffering and not at rest from their persecution...
I believe they are at rest in heaven, far from any persecution.
...the Thessalonians' bodies are all dust now...
And yet not a hair of their bodies has perished (Luke 21:16, 18), for their bodies will be resurrected (1 Corinthians 15:54) at the 2nd coming (1 Corinthians 15:23).
...The "you/us" in 1 Thess 5:1-11 is the Thessalonians...
That day won't overtake the dead Thessalonians as a thief, for they are now together with Christ in heaven (1 Thessalonians 5:10).
...The Thessalonians were therefore misled to believe that they would remain alive until the second coming (1 Thess 4:15-17)...
Even if Paul at one time expected the rapture/resurrection in his lifetime (contrast 2 Timothy 4:6), I believe that in 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-8 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 he is referring to the same "coming" of Jesus and the same "gathering together" of the saints and the same "trumpet" and the same "clouds" as Matthew 24:29-31. I don't believe 1 Thessalonians 4:15-17 and 2 Thessalonians 2:4, 8 and 1 Corinthians 15:51-52 and Matthew 24:29-31 have been fulfilled yet; we do not find them described in any history.
