How many would welcome an indult allowing the Latin Mass in every parish?

proud2bcatholic said:

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I'll quote our Holy Father on this one:

Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.

"Sing an old hymn unto the Lord,
Let your song be sung from choir lofts high.
Sing an old hymn unto the Lord,
Singing Tantum Ergo."

My humble attempt at adapting a contemporary hymn to conservative standards (my apologies to Dan Schutte.)

Or, if you prefer:

" sono an vetus hymn unto Senior , Permissum vestri carmen exsisto sung ex choir sublimiter altus. Sono an vetus hymn unto Senior , Sono Tantum Ergo. "

Respectfully submitted,
An admirer of John Foley's "One Bread, One Body."

I'm sure my parish would welcome the Latin Mass to return.I'd support that.

IgnatiusOfAntioch said:

Just curious, how many would welcome a general indult allowing the Latin Mass in every parish?

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PetertheRock said:

Well, I really don't know where you get hand clapping. I really can't remember the last time there was clapping during Mass.

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I've heard it several times at my parish, either after announcements (often a birthday or retirement), or after a homily.

PetertheRock said:

I have never heard of anything like that. Most churches have doors that lock from the outside so you should be able to stay there. I guess that's why I like my church. There are no locks on the door and it is open 24/7. Of course unfortunately not everyone can have a church like this.

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I've had this happen, too. I was at Mass at another church, and was praying the Office afterwards, and was told about 5 or 10 minutes after Mass that I needed to leave since they were locking the church.

QuantaCura said:

I'll quote our Holy Father on this one:

Wherever applause breaks out in the liturgy because of some human achievement, it is a sure sign that the essence of liturgy has totally disappeared and been replaced by a kind of religious entertainment. Such attraction fades quickly - it cannot compete in the market of leisure pursuits, incorporating as it increasingly does various forms of religious titillation.

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so well said, and so amazingly true.

A Catholic’s perception of God has always been formed primarily by the Mass. The problem with the way many Novus Ordo Masses are 'celebrated' is that they reflect the times we live in, rather than conveying the central attribute of God: His unchangeableness.. And in our modern times everything is changing at a faster rate than ever before in history. Out society, cultures, morals, and spirituality... and now just when the spiritual idiocy of modern man has reached appalling porportions, immersed in the ever different ways of thinking, consumerists an morally decadent societies, the unchanging rock of stability and uniformity and transcendency all through the ages - the ancient Mass, has been supplanted with a new and ever changing Mass in which Catholics worship Him in novel ways from week to week, from parish to parish, and from nation to nation. And so they soon begin to think of God and His moral law in different ways. Catholics may even begin to think that God can change His mind about right and wrong. Artificial contraception, homosexuality, cohabitation before marriage, and divorce: all heretofore unambiguously labeled as evil are reassessed in the light of the new way we think about God.



God Bless
Mark

plainswolf said:

A Catholic’s perception of God has always been formed primarily by the Mass. The problem with the way many Novus Ordo Masses are 'celebrated' is that they reflect the times we live in, rather than conveying the central attribute of God: His unchangeableness.. And in our modern times everything is changing at a faster rate than ever before in history. Out society, cultures, morals, and spirituality... and now just when the spiritual idiocy of modern man has reached appalling porportions, immersed in the ever changing consumerists an moraly decadent societies, the unchanging rock of stability and uniformity all through the ages - the ancient Mass, has been supplanted with a new and ever changing Mass in which Catholics worship Him in novel ways from week to week, from parish to parish, and from nation to nation. And so they soon begin to think of God and His moral law in different ways. Catholics may even begin to think that God can change His mind about right and wrong. Artificial contraception, homosexuality, cohabitation before marriage, and divorce: all heretofore unambiguously labeled as evil are reassessed in the light of the new way we think about God.



God Bless
Mark

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darn rep nazi's

Hugh!

I don't think anybody in this thread is named Hugh.

Wasn't it with Chesterton that said something to the effect of "The only problem with novelites is that you'll always need NEW novelties"???

NDIrish said:

Wasn't it with Chesterton that said something to the effect of "The only problem with novelites is that you'll always need NEW novelties"???

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Wasn't it Pope St. Pius X who said something to the effect of : "Far, far from the clergy be the love of novelty!"

Wasn't it Ambrose Bierce who said "Quotation: The act of repeating erroneously the words of another. The words erroneously repeated"?

Okay, I am sorry. This is my last post on CF ever. What a way to go out...with Bierce I'm sure you will approve, the_cheat

I believe it was Archy Bunker who said...

Oh nevermind, I don't think I can say that here.

plainswolf said:

A Catholic’s perception of God has always been formed primarily by the Mass. The problem with the way many Novus Ordo Masses are 'celebrated' is that they reflect the times we live in, rather than conveying the central attribute of God: His unchangeableness.. And in our modern times everything is changing at a faster rate than ever before in history. Out society, cultures, morals, and spirituality... and now just when the spiritual idiocy of modern man has reached appalling porportions, immersed in the ever different ways of thinking, consumerists an morally decadent societies, the unchanging rock of stability and uniformity and transcendency all through the ages - the ancient Mass, has been supplanted with a new and ever changing Mass in which Catholics worship Him in novel ways from week to week, from parish to parish, and from nation to nation. And so they soon begin to think of God and His moral law in different ways. Catholics may even begin to think that God can change His mind about right and wrong. Artificial contraception, homosexuality, cohabitation before marriage, and divorce: all heretofore unambiguously labeled as evil are reassessed in the light of the new way we think about God.



God Bless
Mark

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I question this argument. First of all it suggests that the NO is responsible for all the evils in the world without direct connection (simple stating that the NO reflects the language and form of modern times is not proof that the evils of the modern world is connected to it)

Also, it seems to impart the view that keeping the mass suppended in time makes it timeless, which is not true. Timelessness requires an ability to transend time and still have meaning. Vatican II spend a good deal of discussion on this point which is why NO was brought about in the first place. Asking culures the world over in various stages of development to take meaning for a ceromony that was lifted from post-Roman Europe is a great deal of ask and was found to be unworkable.

But you understand all that and reject it. Cool. I reject stuff all the time.

It just I get jumped on for it.

But that's not the point. The point is - your argument is suspect.

NDIrish said:

Wasn't it with Chesterton that said something to the effect of "The only problem with novelites is that you'll always need NEW novelties"???

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Wasn't it Pope Paul who said Chesterton is a smug, self-satified idiot ?

No, wait, it was Pope John.

No, wait, it was me.

Never mind

Cosmic Charlie said:

Wasn't it Pope Paul who said Chesterton is a smug, self-satified idiot ?

No, wait, it was Pope John.

No, wait, it was me.

Never mind

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Even if he was, he has a way of hitting the nail on the head.

proud2bcatholic said:

Even if he was, he has a way of hitting the nail on the head.

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Where I come from a novelity is some sort of werid ice cream treat, Chesterton reduces the work of many a faithful, thoughtful, spritual man (and woman for all I know) to an impulsive, disposable action.

intercourse him.

I would welcome it, I'd love to see both offered!
I would truly love to worship as all my ancestors have, to have that connection, and to openly show the reverence I have in my heart in a way that cannot be done in the NO.

As with anything in the church, I will abide by what our blessed Pope has to say, and where he will take this.
This is such an exciting time in our faith right now, I wish more people would feel that!

Cosmic Charlie said:

I question this argument. First of all it suggests that the NO is responsible for all the evils in the world without direct connection (simple stating that the NO reflects the language and form of modern times is not proof that the evils of the modern world is connected to it).

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It did not, it says that the most efficacious spiritual remedy against what's going on in the world today has been taken away from us..

Cosmic Charlie said:

Also, it seems to impart the view that keeping the mass suppended in time makes it timeless, which is not true. Timelessness requires an ability to transend time and still have meaning. Vatican II spend a good deal of discussion on this point which is why NO was brought about in the first place. Asking culures the world over in various stages of development to take meaning for a ceromony that was lifted from post-Roman Europe is a great deal of ask and was found to be unworkable.

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Well it worked quite well for over 1400 years now... The Council sought modifications of the liturgy which presuppose organic growth from what already exists, not a radical departure from it. As former Cardinal Ratzinger lamented. "What happened after the Council was something else entirely: in the place of liturgy as the fruit of development came fabricated liturgy. We abandoned the organic, living process of growth and development over centuries, and replaced it - as in a manufacturing process - with a fabrication, a banal on-the-spot product."

And Liturgical scholar, Klaus Gamber says: "Although the argument is used over and over again by the people responsible for creating the new Mass, they cannot claim that what they have done is what the Council actually wanted ... the new Ordo of the Mass that has now emerged would not have been endorsed by the majority of the Council Fathers." The Reform of the Roman Liturgy, page 61