A question for FULL preterists

Originally posted by Erwin
Auntie,

Keep posting about futurist issues, and discuss prophecy and future events. I would ask preterist members to leave such threads alone.

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I have already mad a public declaration that I would leave futurist threads alone because I largely find them of little interest.

I would now encourage all other preterists on this forum to do likewise.

Of course, when a futurist starts a thread such as this one, that calls into question preterists beliefs, We will be compelled to respond with sober reason for our faith.

I applaud Erwin for his level headed approach, and hope his example is followed by all.

YBIC,
P70

I agree. I at least won't enter a futurist thread and discuss preterist views unless my beliefs are discussed or called into question by others. If I enter a futurist discussion it will be to discuss futurist views.

Yes, we all can get along, and have done so (for the most part) over the past couple weeks!

In Christ,

Acts6:5

I think I found this place through an article on the Planet Preterism. I am glad it is here.
I was a futurist for 40 years. (Never to old to change).I started reading about preterism 3 years ago. But was so nervouse about what I was reading that I saved everything in my favorite places for almost that long. But I just couldn't stay away. I knew that the Lord was opening my heart to the truth. Its hard to accept at first. You just need to take baby steps. But once you take off, you will soon be running and jumping for joy in the truth.

I would like someone to comment on the Verse, Absent from the body and present with the Lord.(From a preterist view please)Since out real body is not resurrected, would this be the spirit that returns to the Lord?

Thank you
Blessings
Nancy

Originally posted by Back To The Future
I think I found this place through an article on the Planet Preterism. I am glad it is here.
I was a futurist for 40 years. (Never to old to change).I started reading about preterism 3 years ago. But was so nervouse about what I was reading that I saved everything in my favorite places for almost that long. But I just couldn't stay away. I knew that the Lord was opening my heart to the truth. Its hard to accept at first. You just need to take baby steps. But once you take off, you will soon be running and jumping for joy in the truth.

I would like someone to comment on the Verse, Absent from the body and present with the Lord.(From a preterist view please)Since out real body is not resurrected, would this be the spirit that returns to the Lord?

Thank you
Blessings
Nancy

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Hi Nancy, and Christ's blessings to you!

It is great to have you here. This board is a wonderful mix of Christians, futurist and preterist. Lots of good discussion on matters of eschatology and the Lord's Kingdom. And you're right, no one is ever too old for God's truth. God is so gracious to all.

Yes, Paul's mention of being absent from the body and present with the Lord was a shocker to jews, for the O.T. saints were kept apart from God under the O.T. system. During their lives they were not permitted into God's Presence without a punishment of death (excepting the High Priest once a year on the Day of Atonement), and they feared death their whole lives (Heb 2:14-15). This is because Sheol was not a place of joy in God's Presence as is Heaven.

So the change in the afterlife for God's People came back in the first century. The Saints no more have to go to Hades. The O.T. saints were resurrected from death and hades and are in God's eternal bliss and rewards in Heaven forever and ever, ruling and reigning with all the saints in the the Holy Ghost, the Father, and the Son. The eternal Covenant of Messiah has made it so.

Truly wonderful to meet you. My name is BJ.


God bless.

Thanks BJ for the reply. I had just read something about what you said. I didn't realize, even after years of church and Bible teaching that the OT Jew didn't know anything about being resurrected.
Also, I am amazed everyday, how much of the truth of the Old Testament comes alive in the New!

Nancy

Originally posted by Back To The Future
Thanks BJ for the reply. I had just read something about what you said. I didn't realize, even after years of church and Bible teaching that the OT Jew didn't know anything about being resurrected.
Also, I am amazed everyday, how much of the truth of the Old Testament comes alive in the New!

Nancy

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Hi Nancy.

Just to clarify...

some Jews of Christ's day did believe in the afterlife while others did not (see Acts 23:7-8). For those jews who did believe in an afterlife, they typically believed the departed went to a place called "Sheol" (a hebrew word -- the greek equivalent was "HADES" and the Latin word for this is "Purgatorio"). This was a dark netherworld apart from God's bliss and presence and was associated with certain pains and lack of activity. It was generally believed that the wicked were held in one compartment of Sheol awating a final judgment while the righteous were held in another compartment there awaiting final judgment as well.

This state of the afterlife was entirely shifted/changed back in the first century. The dead were raised out of Hades (a.k.a sheol/purgatorio) and brought before Jesus to be either sent into Heavenly eternal bliss ("resurrection unto eternal life" - John 5:25-29) or resigned unto Hell ("resurrection unto damnation" - John 5:25-29). This judgment of the dead is depicted in Revelation 20:12-15 where we also see the Hadean realm depart into Hell. And, thus, Paul's famous victory chant was realized:


1 Corinthians 15:54-56
"then shall be brought to pass the word that hath been written, 'The Death was swallowed up -- to victory; Where, O Death, thy sting? where, O HADES, thy victory?' And the sting of the death is the sin, and the power of the sin The Law" [of Moses]



Some of the early saints of the Church boldly declared this great triumph over death as well:

Melito of Sardis (mid-2nd Century)
"Who will contend against me? Let him stand before me. It is I who delivered the condemned. It is I who gave life to the dead. It is I who raised up the buried. Who will argue with me? It is I, says Christ, who destroyed death. It is I who triumphed over the enemy, and having trod down Hades, and bound the Strong Man, and have snatched mankind up to the heights of heaven."


St. Athanasius (296-372 AD)
Death has become like a tyrant who has been completely conquered by the legitimate monarch; bound hand and foot as he now is, the passersby jeer at him, hitting him and abusing him, no longer afraid of his cruelty and rage, because of the king who has conquered him. So has death been conquered and branded for what it is by the Saviour on the cross. It is bound hand and foot, all who are in Christ trample it as they pass and as witnesses to Him deride it, scoffing and saying, "O Death, where is thy victory? O grave, where is thy sting?" (St. Athanasius, On the Incarnation [27])

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I hope that helps.

God bless.
BJ

Preterest people are yall trinitarian too?

Yep. At least I am.

Originally posted by RKF
Preterest people are yall trinitarian too?

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While I've never met or come across a non-trinitarian preterist, I'm sure one exists somewhere in the known universe.

That is not an eschatological issue. There are Modalists/Oneness Christians that do exist here and there around non-Catholic circles. You can find them even among evanglicals on rare occasion. Isn't T.D. Jakes a non-trinitarian? (Apologies if he isn't).

God bless,
GW

You said:
IF, all Christians suddenly agreed with full preterism, and believed that all the end time prophecies were fullfilled in 70AD, then this forum would not exist.

Frank: Not really! there would probably still be disagreements and many things to discuss!
I recently became a new pret... I believe that it is the only consistant interpretation of the scriptures ..

Nancy:
I would like someone to comment on the Verse, Absent from the body and present with the Lord.(From a preterist view please)Since out real body is not resurrected, would this be the spirit that returns to the Lord?

Franklin:
Hi Nancy, I have a link that I will try to send to you later this evening that deals with this passages, however, I believe that most of us have been taught that this passage is referring to the afterlife but recently I believe Paul is not referring to that at all. I'll look for that later for you if that is ok.

I think this is another article that deals with passages like the one you asked about...

There are a few preterists that don't think Paul ever has the afterlife in mind when talking about resurrection, but Paul is clearly meaning both the blessings of the Church as well as the blessings of the dead when all the Chosen received eternal life at the Parousia.

Here's a good article to check out that deals with that debate:

2 Corinthians 5
By Arthur Melanson
http://www.preteristarchive.com/Preterism/melanson-arthur_p_02.html

Auntie Belle
This forum is about future predictions ie prophecy unfullfilled.

Franklin: If all prophecy had been fulfilled then what is left to be fulfilled in the year 2002 & beyond?
All of the Bible was not written TO us, it was written FOR us!

Oh no, Now yall are changing the scriptures, that's not goooood.

2Ti 3:16 All scripture [is] given by inspiration of God, and [is] profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:

RKF - we believe 2Tim 3:16, no question about it.

Concerning recent posts...

Preterists believe in fulfilled ESCHATOLOGY. This means that we are today in the New Covenant of Christ's law, Nation, and priesthood -- all which are eternal and all which have been delivered to us in the Church and supported by the Holy scriptures. To quote Todd Dennis, manager of the preterist archive:

"Though Preterist Christians are accused of believing that all Bible prophecy has been fulfilled, this is inaccurate. It is my impression that this view sees much more relevant prophetic fulfillment in this age than do Futurists. Instead of believing that all prophecy has been fulfilled, we believe that all Bible eschatology has been fulfilled. In short, this view sees Biblical end-times events as referring to the end of the Old Covenant, not the end of the universe or church age" (cf. Heb 8:13).

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So while we preterist Christians recognize that none of scripture was written TO us personally (i.e., my name isn't in the bible, hehe), we know that all scripture is to be APPLIED to all New Covenant citizens for NEW COVENANT KINGDOM living and dominion.

Just as it is an error to enforce the ritual precriptions of Moses to us today (a point all Christians agree on), so also is it an error to apply other fulfilled events to us today as if they aren't fulfilled. We aren't expecting a repeat Calvary, or a repeat virgin birth -- we also aren't expecting a repeat great tribulation or the building of some NEW Church of "latter day saints" like the Mormons did. (BTW, did anyone ever notice that cults are almost always birthed out of some fevered endtimes expectations? JWs, Mormons, 7th Day Adventists, Waco, Jim Jones, Heaven's gate, and many more all were connected to endtimes movements, mostly the ones of the 1800s that originally arose among mainstream Christians duped by endtimes manias in very great and public disappointments.)

For certain, the Faith has been delivered once and for all (Jude 1:3) and it is to be lived and followed by Christians from here to eternity and from eternity to eternity -- world without end.

Just my .02,
GW

seebs:

...He said these things would come to pass soon...

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Revelation 1:1 says "shortly come to pass."

Irenaeus of Lyons (b.130) says Revelation was written by John "towards the end of Domitian's reign":

"We will not, however, incur the risk of pronouncing positively as to the name of Antichrist; for if it were necessary that his name should be distinctly revealed in this present time, it would have been announced by him who beheld the apocalyptic vision. For that was seen no very long time since, but almost in our day, towards the end of Domitian's reign" (Against Heresies, Book 5, Chapter 30, Paragraph 3).

Domitian's reign ended in 96 AD. How did each verse of Revelation 13 and Revelation 11 and Revelation 16 shortly come to pass after 96 AD? How did the 2nd coming in Revelation 19 shortly come to pass, and how did the millenial reign and great white throne judgment of Revelation 20 and the eternal state of the new heaven and new earth and New Jerusalem of Revelation 21-22 shortly come to pass?

To God, all these will indeed shortly come to pass, for to him a thousand years are as one day (2 Peter 3:8), but we men need "long patience" in waiting for the 2nd coming, even though it draws nearer with each passing day (James 5:7-8).

parousia70:

...I do not claim that a belief in a future fulfillment risks ones salvation status, or destroys my faith.

Is it too much to ask the same treatment in return?

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Paul said preterism can destroy faith: "Who concerning the truth have erred, saying that the resurrection is past already; and overthrow the faith of some" (2 Timothy 2:18).

Nancy:

...out real body is not resurrected...

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"If Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?" (1 Corinthians 15:12)

GW:

...The O.T. saints were resurrected...

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At the same time that the resurrection happens, all those who are still alive and in Christ will be changed in the twinkling of an eye into immortal bodies (1 Corinthians 15:51-53). This didn't happen to Paul or to the apostles or to anyone since their time.

I truly didn't realize that Preterism as a whole had a formal "ministry".

I'm simply a Christian whose doctrinal beliefs include Preterism.

I have no formal goal to convert futurists to preterists. I'd sooner focus on converting non-christians to christians.

Auntie, where did you learn to shun Preterists? Why are you so bitter towards them?

-A