satan's Xmas treat

OK guess I need to speak up on this matter also.
First let me start by saying that I have always
celebrated Christmas. Even last December I decorated
my house with all the trimmings etc...
It has always been one of my favorite holidays.
but I'm afraid rwc is right in the message they are trying
to get across to us. It's one thing to celebrate the birth of Christ. And to thank God for this most precious gift. (something that should be done daily)
Now what does the christmas tree represent? It has nothing to do with the birth of Christ. it's true that it has always been used by pagans they decorated
it with lights, and placed gifts under it as offerings to whatever it was they were worshiping. something to do with the days getting longer I guess. Now let me get this tree out of the way! so I can share something else.

You see I prayed that God would open me eyes to anything
that I might be doing or practicing in my life that I shouldn't be. and Christmas, it seemed, was at the top of his list. I can't say for sure it's the holiday, It's more the way it's celebrated. But can we realy accept pagan rituals and cover them over with a different
meaning? I'm not so sure God works that way. I have alot more ground to cover here but will do so with an additional post. most wont like at all what I have to say.
But please understand I'm not trying to convict anyone, I'm just going to try and show you what God showed me. I'm not here to point fingers, just want to share my experience.

I said I would post more so here it is. This is mostly about Santa Claus.

A simple anagram Santa-satan claus-lucas

Father of all lies: satan - santa: A lie we tell to our
children.

The bible simply tells us thou shalt not lie, plain and simple. It also tells us this....

1 Timothy 4:7 Have nothing to do with godless myths and old wives' tales; rather train yourself to be godly.

Ok santa claus can be considered a myth along with his flying reindeer, elves etc....
not to mention his magic bag full of toys. The bible also tells us to keep away from magic.

1 John 2:15 Do not love the things of the world. If anyone loves the world, the love of the Father is not in him.

By teaching our children to ask santa for gifts we are teaching them to love the things of the world that santa brings them. we also teach them that they should want the things of the world.

The words to santa claus is coming to town. these are the words that really stand out to me.

He sees you when you're sleeping. He knows if you're awake.

When does satan have the most power over us? When we are asleep in the spirit. "He sees you when you're sleeping" This is when he has the power to creep into our lives.

when does satan have no power over us? When we are awake in the spirit. "He knows if you're awake" He has no power to creep into our lives.

So why does santa only come if we are sleeping, and not if we stay awake? I don't know about anyone else, but I was taught as a child that santa wouldn't come if I stayed awake. Is this because he can't?

Then there's the deal about the way he comes down
our chimney, under the cover of darkness none the less.
Why isn't he burned by the fire? I started thinking maybe
he doesn't come down the chimney at all but rises up from
the flames.

So we teach our children to delight in santa instead of God
every year at christmas. How God must realy hate this. We can't teach a lie along with the truth it just doesn't work. We can't have both we must choose one or the other.

We also give gifts to those that already have, instead of giving to the needy. Think about how happy it would make God if you took all that money you invested into Christmas and feed the hungry or took care of the needy with it.

Ahhh, the old "Santa = Satan" argument, the "king" of localized grammar tactics. Let's see how universal that implication is, shall we?

Santa Claus - United States & Canada
Father Christmas - England
Three Kings - Mexico & Puerto Rico
el Nino Jesus - Costa Rica & Colombia
Papa Noel, Three Kings - Spain & Peru
Papai Noel, Vovo Indo - Brazil
Pere Noel, le Petit Noel - France
Babbo Natale, La Bafana - Italy
Hagios Nikolaos - Greece
Christindl, Pelsnickel, Pelzebock, Kriss Kringle, Christ Kind, Sankt Nikolaus, Der Weinachtsmann, Knecht Ruprecht, Krampus, Hans Muff - Germany
Christkind - Austria
Julenisse, Julemanden - Denmark
Noel, Saint Nicholas, Christkindl, Christkind, Black Pete - Belgium & Netherlands
Sinterklaas, De Kerstman - Holland
Star Man, Wise Men - Poland
Julenissen - Norway
Jultomten, Tomten - Sweden
Joulupukki - Finland
Kaledu Senelis - Lithuania
Ded Moroz, Basbouschka - Russia
Shengdan Laoren, Dun Che Lao Ren - China
Santa Kurohsu, Santa no ojisan - Japan
Black Peter - Morocco

Now, what were you saying about anagrams?

There's more to it than just a simple anagram. Can God realy be happy when he looks down from heaven and watches as adults all over the world try so hard to make children believe that santa claus is real by telling them lies?
The Bible says, Thou shalt not lie.
It doesn't say, Thou shalt not lie except about fun things disguised as something good.

Actually, I had no intention of either advocating or denigrating the use of "Santa Claus" as a part of Christmas. I was merely showing that the "anagram" argument had no validity. IMO, it's a rather silly defense to use; there are other, far more plausible arguments.

yup yup you're right there are more plausible arguments, The anagram realy serves as nothing more than an attention getter.

"Can God realy be happy when he looks down from heaven and watches as adults all over the world try so hard to make children believe that santa claus is real by telling them lies? "

Funny, I don't have to tell people about santa to celebrate christmas... *agrees with Joe* there is NOTHING wrong at all with celbrating christmas. Do you let your kids watch movies? If you do, do you ALWAYS say, that's emilo estivess, not billy the kid. Or that's liem nelsion (sp) not qui gon jenn....etc...Do you tell them, no that's not a cartoon, its a guy with another persons voice. In other words, do you let your childern pretend? If you do, then you're contradicting yourself.

Liam Neeson.

You know, there was another topic I was thinking about this same idea on. The difference between fantasy and reality. Think of a kids show, like Sesame Street. Everyone loves that show. But is Big Bird real? Is there really a green guy named Oscar who lives in a trash can? There is some point when kids learn that they are people in costumes and puppets.

The same goes for Christmas. There is a point where the parents tell their kids Santa isn't real. We just have to get everyone to the point where they're also telling the kids we celebrate Christmas because Jesus Christ was born.

I still would love to set up a massive nativity scene in a mall right across from the santa picture area. Put some reality in right where fantasy is.

I must agree with graft here.
I DON"T tell my kids about santa. I tell them that HE is a make believe charecter out of a long lived story.
I don't feel right starting out my kids life with a lie. I want them to ALWAYS trust me with everything..especially the spiritual things. Santa stinks!
We do celebrate Christmas...with the tree and all and they get all excited about the presents...I could take that away from them. As for the tree...well that is totally differant to me in my convictions from the Lord. I see it as a decoration. If I take away the tree because I believe it to be "pagan" then i must remove my wedding ring, I must stop using money because there is pagan symbols on it, I must stop my children from whereing a white dress on their wedding day, I must stop using the names of the days of the week, I must NEVER put cows in my kitchen, I must NEVER use tis computer again because in greek www=666.
OK...So its either all or nothing to me. I love my Lord dearly and would NEVER disrespect HIM...
GEL

Hei, I got a few simple anagrams too

God - Gold
Holy Wood - HollyWood
Obey the Word - Obey the World

Every single one of them is being added with the letter "l" - intial signature of l ucifier

I think if God gives you a conviction THEN DO IT...stop trying to tell yourself that you are right in your tradtions..you MUST allow yourself to be fully convinced in YOUR OWN MIND...if your not FULLY convionced..you are not following God. I am fully convinced about what I believe about the santa issue and the tree and christmas.
I am fully convinced that halloween is NOT a day for ME or my family to participate in. God has convicted me of this....
GEL

"I am fully convinced about what I believe about the santa issue and the tree and christmas. "

I'm glad GEL. You just must understand that others feel that they don't have the same conviction. Romans 14-15

Like i said before..I AM FULLY CONVINCED and CONVICTED by GOD in MY OWN mind. I don't judge people because they want to go out on halloween. I do get mad however whn people accuse me of "takeing my kids childhood away or that my kids will have no imagination because of my convictions"
That really gets on my nerves.
GEL

good posts GEL


I have to go along with what you are saying - We never did allow the kids ot believe in santa - they were alwys told exactly what christmas was / is.. a celebration of the Birth of Our LORD and Saviour..

I also agree about holloween.. My oldest dressed up a few times as a very young girl - and never went door to door - but even that convicted My wife and I.. We decided it wasn't right.. also giving out candy we felt was wrong also - it promoted the same thing as if our child did it.. so - several years ago - We started taking the girls out to dinner and possibly a movie on hollween night - that way - we didn't promote the day and the girls enjoyed the night out.. so they didn't feel left out of anything - we also went to wally world and bought each a bag of thier choice of candy..

so - My children didn't miss out on anything... and My youngest has the widest range of imagination you can think of - she runs the gamut on things and wants to write books....

take care

I agree that we are to allow the Holy Spirit to convict us on that which is not fully clear in scripture. It appears to me that the original post in this forum was based strongly on legalism. We know that God is a God of celebrations. If we choose to celebrate the birth of Christ, and our celebration give glory to God, where is the sin? I too have been convicted regarding Halloween. IMO there is no glory to God in that holiday, and in fact it glorifies fear, death, and perpetuates the desensitization of the spiritual world of darkness.

We do the same thing on halloween!
As soon as the kids get big enough I have going to have annaul dress up theme parties so the kids do have that "dress up"part each year. I am waiting for maybe next year. Not sure what the first theme party will be but it will definatly be a learning experience. You know..like a german party, a hawaii party, and Irish party, ect ect.
Glad to know you agree wayne!
GEL