Commercial pilot tries to initiate mass mid-air witness

d0c markus

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Epiphany said:
To Life Immortal

Question:

Do You Have a Persecution Complex? Do You think you're a better Christian if you feel persecuted? I would laugh if it weren't so sad. Doc, examine your motives for witnessing before you do any to people.

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Epiphany ~*~
your comments are ignorant.

Doc, you don't preach to people in a plane like that. If you really want to witness, do it not with words but how you live your life. Anybody can say anything.
Thats Ignorant too. Live the life, yes sure of course, but what i get from this is:

"hey buddy you sure are holy today!"
"gee thanks! i am holy"

Where's telling them? The apostles must have walked around the streets with halos around there heads never speaking or preaching huh. Im gonna do you a huge favor and reccomend a short book to you. Its called "tell the truth" by a guy named metzger.



All the christians who are responding, SHOW me one piece of scripture that says its a particular time is not nessecary to tell people the gospel.

Acts 8:4 `Therefore they that were scattered abroad went every where preaching the word'
 
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Jacey

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British One said:
And its exactly why the person who said it was hung on a cross 2000 years ago. The people didn't want to hear it. But for the ones who did choose to hear, and believe - it brought life in all its fullness.

Blessings!


Which person? There were a lot of people hung on crosses 2000 years ago........
 
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ashibaka

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I read this in my local newspaper, which had more details:
"He said he'd recently been on a mission trip, and he'd like all the Christians to please raise their hands," said passenger Jen Dorsey.

According to fellow passenger Karla Austin, "He said, 'If you are a Christian, raise your hand.' He said, 'If you are not, you're crazy'".

If I were on that plane, I would think that next, he was going to hijack it.

Definitely something to worry about.
 
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Epiphany

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To Life Immortal

Why are my comments ignorant, Doc? (Sorry I couldn't put the quote in correcty; I apologize.) Maybe my English is not clear. What I am trying to say is that there is a time and place for all things. We're supposed to do things in decency and in order, not to scare people.

Some Christians think being 'persecuted' justify being rude doing things inappropriately. Some people judge their salvation on how 'persecuted' they are by other people they have been rude. I hope you're not that type; I mean no offense. You quote scriptures and things and that is fine, but the disciples didn't do what this pilot has done. We are suposed to represent Lord Jesus in a good manner, not by being reckless with His message. I take my spirituality very seriously and I don't appreciate people making the Gospel look foolish. If you represent Lord Jesus, then represent Lord Jesus on HIS terms, not yours.

You are not allowed to justify rudeness and thoughtlessness as part of witnessing to people; it DOES NOT WORK.

I'm not trying to put you down or anything. Having enthusiasm for witnessing is a good thing. But that enthusiasm must be tempered with compassion and wisdom and love.

Wow, man, I haven't posted this much in my life. This subject is very interesting. It amazes me how different people think about the rightness or wrongness of doing things. Very educational indeed.

And with that, I must create some webpages. I hope to talk with you again on different subjects. Good opportunity to learn and share :)

Peace and Long Life
~*~ Epiphany ~*~
 
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MissFirerose

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d0c markus said:
Your response concerns me, you, being a christian would rather christ not be preached because its not in essence 'fair'?
Even though I'm a Christian, I accept that people have other religions. I think if you're truly at peace with your own personal faith, other peoples' doesn't seem that threatening.

I don't belive forcing people to listen to you, while on an air plane, after crazed terrorists hijacked and crashed four of them not that long ago, is a very sound idea. It's a good way to get attacked, because someone might think you're not very stable. If someone wants to come to Christ, forcing him down their throat isn't going to make it happen.



Did not the apostle paul preach in the synagouges? Did he not preach in jail? Did he not preach in corinth where his message was hated? Did he not preach while he traveled? When and where exactly is a good time to preach the gospel message?
People could leave and walk away. In an airplane, you can't.
 
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pgp_protector

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Post above was quoting a previous post that was stating that paul preached in diffrent areas, and also to people in jail.

There responce was "People could leave and walk away. In an airplane, you can't."

AKA my responce that the people in Jail could not really walk away, so the point about them being able to walk away was not 100% accurate.
 
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MissFirerose

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pgp_protector said:
And they could walk away whilein Jail ?
I suppose they couldn't. Then again, they didn't pay money to be there. And there was no threat to them. Personally, if some random person stood up on a plane I was on and asked all Christians to raise their hands, I'd be worried about his mental stability. A plane is not a place to preach, especially in this day and age.
 
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d0c markus

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i find it funny that everyone thinks this pilot forced them to listen... i am seeing none of it in the articles. I see him suggesting something... I also find it funny how people think he threatened them..which again i dont see... and also the fact that he gave them an option to just chill shows it not forced.. can someone provide a quote that says these people were forced?

also can someone show me a scripture reference where it says dont preach christ when its not convienant?...thanks.
 
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pgp_protector

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d0c markus said:
also can someone show me a scripture reference where it says dont preach christ when its not convienant?...thanks.

Nope, they cant show that reference, unless they create a new version :)
 
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Gunny

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Jacey said:
But what if God spoke to him and told him to crash the plane because there were demons on board? Would he be wrong in not crashing the plane?

What about women who've killed their children saying that they're possessed? How do we really know that they're wrong?

(playing devil's advocate here)
Well, that wasn't the case and has never been the case.

Some that follow after a "different god" engaging in holy jihad are trained/encouraged to commit suicide and kill individuals in the process because their "different god" according to their belief system is going to reward them with many pleasures including but not limited to the sensual.
 
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Gunny

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d0c markus said:
MT 5:11 "Blessed are you when people insult you, persecute you and falsely say all kinds of evil against you because of me. 12 Rejoice and be glad, because great is your reward in heaven, for in the same way they persecuted the prophets who were before you.

MT 5:14 "You are the light of the world. A city on a hill cannot be hidden. 15 Neither do people light a lamp and put it under a bowl. Instead they put it on its stand, and it gives light to everyone in the house. 16 In the same way, let your light shine before men, that they may see your good deeds and praise your Father in heaven.

MK 16:15 He said to them, "Go into all the world and preach the good news to all creation.

LK 9:26 If anyone is ashamed of me and my words, the Son of Man will be ashamed of him when he comes in his glory and in the glory of the Father and of the holy angels.

AC 4:18 Then they called them in again and commanded them not to speak or teach at all in the name of Jesus. 19 But Peter and John replied, "Judge for yourselves whether it is right in God's sight to obey you rather than God. 20 For we cannot help speaking about what we have seen and heard."

i'm done. This thread too makes me want to cry, we keep jesus in our closet till he is convienant...we deprive others the message..... how much more can i argue. I don't expect non-christians to understand, but the christians of this website never stop amazing me.

...:prayer::sigh: :prayer: :help:...
AMEN, Fellow Brother In Christ!
 
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Gunny

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d0c markus said:
i find it funny that everyone thinks this pilot forced them to listen... i am seeing none of it in the articles. I see him suggesting something... I also find it funny how people think he threatened them..which again i dont see... and also the fact that he gave them an option to just chill shows it not forced.. can someone provide a quote that says these people were forced?

also can someone show me a scripture reference where it says dont preach christ when its not convienant?...thanks.
AMEN.
 
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British One

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No gods said:
British One said:
Because he's a Christian what he says holds more weight and value

It scares me that people with this type of attitude are allowed to vote. :rolleyes:

You've taken that line out of context. I don't mean that Christians are somehow infallible or more intelligent than others (although you could argue that spiritual wisdom improves knowledge). What I meant is that when talking about GOD, a Christians words should hold more weight and value because he's talking about someone he knows - His heavenly Father.
 
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faerieevaH

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I will put aside here the question of wether this was apropriete for a moment and would like to address two issues that people have brought up here. And then add a little thought of myself.

d0c markus said:
i find it funny that everyone thinks this pilot forced them to listen... i am seeing none of it in the articles. I see him suggesting something... I also find it funny how people think he threatened them..which again i dont see... and also the fact that he gave them an option to just chill shows it not forced.. can someone provide a quote that says these people were forced?

I will have to agree with you that the people were not forced to listen or to take his advice on discussing Christianity. He did not keep a sermon for the entire flight through the intercom that they were forced to listen to and couldn't get away from. People were not forced to start up a discussion simply because he told them so. Fact is that this kind of remark is unusual in an airplane and therefor will spark conversation or discussion. Just like someone who would anounce he was flying the plane naked. Still, that does not constitute force.
Secondly, I also have to agree with you that the pilote did not threathen anyone. Here I must make a remark though: the fact that the pilote did not threathen anyone does not lessen the fact that he should have taken into account that people would FEEL threathened. He is a pilote, he knows the fear of many passengers, he knows that the attack on the two towers is atributed to religious fanaticisim. I can understand the wish to preach the gospel. I can understand your points about saying that 'there is no inapropriete place to share such truth', but I ask you to considder if what he did was not 'ill thought off' in the context that it happened. The reason for that, brings me to my second point, brought up earlier by Mac6yver.

Mac6yver said:
The ironic thing about this entire situation is taht the Pilot more then likely turned more people off of Christianity rather then onto it. I know that it would not make me any more likely to profess my belief in Jesus.

I fear that, however well this person ment this, it was an ill thought action that, instead of bringing the gospel to people has driven more people away from it with the thought of 'those crazy Christians'. I heard someone say earlier that we are commanded to speak the truth even when it is inconvenient, and I may agree to that to a certain degree. But we have to take care to represent Christ in our actions. We do not preach for ourselves, or because it is needed for our own salvation. In preaching we should give to others from something that is the most precious within ourselves. We should think of the others and of giving them a gift. "You can not lead people to God by scaring the h*ll out of them." When I read this persons words, I don't think he INTENDED to scare people. He probably ment to make a few light comments and hoped to make some people think, and spark some discussion that might lead people to God. What he did however was creating a lot of pannicked people, Christian or non Christian and endangered the safety of his aircraft. I think this was very, very ineffective witnessing.

Now I come to my last point, my own thought. I hear many people calling to fire this pilot. However much I disagree with what he did, I don't think that is necessary. Should he be reprimanded by the company: certainly. Should it be made clear to him that this was not something that can happen again: absolutely. Perhaps a fine is in order as well and a probation.
But we should look also at the context: the person just came back from a mission trip. He was completely full of his experiences there and made the very ill thought off comments he made, thereby scaring a group of people. It's a one time occurance: he didn't intentionally harm anyone. It's not that this pilote is known as 'the preaching pilot' all over the skye and everyone that ever travels with him will be treated to a free sermon. If he is prepared to keep himself to flying the plane while on the job, I wouldn't mind him piloting me next time.
 
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