Naturists

[Andrew]Count me in as well, and all other Asian men.

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Right.... cause your the spokesmen for other Asian men?

If there's no sexual connotation, either one is impotent, or not really a man.

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That's the most ignorant thing I have thus far read on this... Congratulations for your insightful and factual input.......

I'm a man, I love women, I have a beautiful wife..... I have been very much in the world prior to becoming a believer so I know what us "redblooded" males can get up to, been there and done it. Have you? Or are you just trying to live up to this crass stereotype that all men are lustful creatures that can't possibly look at the female form without any form of sexual connotation being present?

You must have a really hard time visiting the beach or swimming pools if you really think like that and please don't claim to speak on behalf of an entire race of people. It just doesn't work like that.....

It seems to be a shame that all you can comment on is the sexual aspect of being nude. And the comment about "decent looking of course" is an out and out insult to every person, not just woman. It shows your predigest very clearly.

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Not in our society! Sex is 'it' in America unfortunately. Can you turn your head and see anything that doesn't have a sexual connotation.

I can appreciate the nudist attempt to escape and find a pure haven. Really, I can. However, as I have stated I don't see how it can be done. If someone can great, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. But as I said, those outside the small % that comprise the nudist of society find it laughable. Especially the concept of 'Christian Nudist'. Any witness you may have had goes right out the window. Same as a Christian who enjoys a beer with a good steak. It may be okay, but when you try to minister to an alcoholic it just doesn't work.

No, I am not going to be accepting of Christian practices I deem wrong. Sorry, I am not opening my mind up to every doctrinal wind that blows.

[Quaffer]Naturism a doctrine?

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Yeah I kinda thought the same thing when I read that.

Look I know where 9-iron's coming from and it's certainly not from any sexist standpoint. Your comments about women were used in the context of this discussion and were by no means offensive. I have to do the classic Quaffer line on this one "I am NOT defending this" (Sorry for stealing your line Quaffer) but I need to clarify that. However I see nothing remotely sinful in it. It's a personal thing, we wouldn't do it, we perhaps would find it amusing, some of us may be completely offended by the whole thing.

The fact is, if Christians are doing it and in so doing have completely genuine motives behind it, then why should we be concerned or worried over it?

Let them enjoy their freedom and each others company, even if they are completely in the buff

9-iron said:

Not in our society! Sex is 'it' in America unfortunately. Can you turn your head and see anything that doesn't have a sexual connotation.

I can appreciate the nudist attempt to escape and find a pure haven. Really, I can. However, as I have stated I don't see how it can be done. If someone can great, I will give them the benefit of the doubt. But as I said, those outside the small % that comprise the nudist of society find it laughable. Especially the concept of 'Christian Nudist'. Any witness you may have had goes right out the window. Same as a Christian who enjoys a beer with a good steak. It may be okay, but when you try to minister to an alcoholic it just doesn't work.

No, I am not going to be accepting of Christian practices I deem wrong. Sorry, I am not opening my mind up to every doctrinal wind that blows.

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In my earlier post in this thread,

"Nothing that is not specifically designated as evil in Scripture is evil — but rather a matter of one's personal preference or taste. So let it be. Even if you personally would not do what another is doing, let it be. And you who feel the freedom to do so, don't flaunt it or mock those who disagree. We are in the construction business, not destruction. And let's all remember that God's big-picture kingdom plan is not being shaped by small things like what one person prefers over another, but by large things, like righteousness and peace and joy."

My thoughts are this: those who are Christians who are in this lifestyle can do so and those who are Christians who choose not to be in this lifestyle can also not do this. This is between God and believers.

I am a swimmer and I remember back in the 70's when I was competiting for the best spot, I was wearing speedos and Christians often frowned on that. I was not wearing it for fashion but to avoid obstructions in the water.

Nudism is acceptable before sin came. After sin, nudism is shame however under grace, we can accept nudism as shame or blessing.

Each individual Christians should accept however they personally feel regardless how others are doing it. This is grace rather than legalism. Legalism means what is not in the bible and our law. Nudism is a no no which I do not see it in the bible.

Look I know where 9-iron's coming from and it's certainly not from any sexist standpoint. Your comments about women were used in the context of this discussion and were by no means offensive.

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I really appreciate those comments.

The thing is though, that scripture says we are to take all thoughts captive. It seems you have a lot of capturing to do.

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Well thanks for judging my spiritual conditions. Perhaps it is that I know myself and know what temptations to avoid. Perhaps I know not to put myself in situations that make it difficult to 'take my thoughts captive'. Perhaps I am no fool concerning the weakness of flesh. Perhaps I understand that 99% of American males, { perhaps Asian in Andrew's case } that are highly suceptible to sexual sin.

I have met Christian men that have lust under control. In every situation, these men say the key is to realizing that no matter how mature, how righteous, how closely one walks to God, we are a blonde hair, eye shot of tan skin passing by, skimpy outfit from falling into lust. Any man that says they have lust under control is really decieving themselves. Even the Bible says we are not to decieve ourselves and say we have no sin.

My opinion will not change. I stand firm in my stance in viewing nudism as perverted. That said, take your shots at me, at this point this thread is no longer profitable, so this my last say on the matter.

I have been trying to track down the origins of public nudity being considered less than acceptable without any success (though I suspect that it began with imperial or late republican Rome.)
*The Bible records David publicly dancing naked before the Lord.
*The original apostles were in the habit of baptising people who weren't clad. It was the common practice in the first of the churches.
* As to Christian naturists - I don't see any reason to believe the concept to be wrong. (odd, certainly imo, but wrong?)

Hmmmm.... the things we choose to make an issue of divisiveness.

I agree with 9-iron on this issue.

karen

Quaffer said:

Why is being unclothed considered "shameful"?

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It wouldn't be if it were not for sin. Is that the answer you are searching for?

Quaffer said:

But where does scripture say that sin has made our unclothed bodies a shameful thing?

And, what makes it OK to be unclothed with your mate or in the shower or even in changing of clothes? If the unclothed body is "shameful", it's shameful no matter what the circumstances of uncovering are.

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No. I was just trying to offer up what I thought you were looking for. That's not what I understand when I read the passages in question. I was just trying to provide a springboard for you to go ahead and give your own view on the subject.

Quaffer said:

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is where do we get some of the doctrine that we adhere so solidly to?

There are many who criticize the scribes and pharasees and saducees because of all their "rules" they put on people yet we carry our own "rules" that we put not only on ourselves but on others and have these high sounding reasonings (honestly I'm not aiming this at anyone, 'cause I'm just as guilty) yet have no solid Biblical backup.

At this moment in time I think Naturism is perverted too, but why do I think it's perverted? When I really think on it I think it's perverted 'cause I grew up being told it was. Yet in the past few days in talking with my friend who is a Christian and is a Naturist, I have no solid scripture to prove that it's perverted...only my opinion. And for me that is just not enough.

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Hey !! Lots of good stuff in that post !!

Very honest and thoughtful and good points to-boot .

Quaffer said:

I guess what I'm trying to figure out is where do we get some of the doctrine that we adhere so solidly to?

There are many who criticize the scribes and pharasees and saducees because of all their "rules" they put on people yet we carry our own "rules" that we put not only on ourselves but on others and have these high sounding reasonings (honestly I'm not aiming this at anyone, 'cause I'm just as guilty) yet have no solid Biblical backup.

At this moment in time I think Naturism is perverted too, but why do I think it's perverted? When I really think on it I think it's perverted 'cause I grew up being told it was. Yet in the past few days in talking with my friend who is a Christian and is a Naturist, I have no solid scripture to prove that it's perverted...only my opinion. And for me that is just not enough.

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Honesty, gosh, it's so hard to get to sometimes on this forum!...

When you read the scriptures in question, do you honestly think they have anything at all to do with "clothing"?

They don't. Not in anyway.

But that understanding does not come from a seder feast, and it will never come from building that little feast of tabernacles thing in your back yard.

God actually even saved me. Even me. Stunning.

Quaffer said:

LOL...ya totally lost me here

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Perhaps it would have been clearer had you posted my entire post. I could have possibly reasoned with you then. Opps, or was your intent for me to not be able to reason?

That kind of seems to be your style. No offense of course.