Marriage

Messianic Jews should marry...

  • Only Jews

  • Only Messianic Jews

  • Only Messianics

  • Only Believers

  • Either Jews or Messianics

  • Either Jews or Believers

  • Anyone who believes in G-d (no matter what religion)

  • Anyone at all

  • Anything that moves


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BenTsion

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I believe "Equally Yolked" means "Equally Yolked" in every possible way.

P4I,
Though I agree with most of your post, I sort of have trouble with the typical interpretation that when Rav. Sha'ul says we shouldn't put ourselves in 'uneven yoke' with unbelievers, that he has marriage in mind. If you read the context in which he wrote such verse, you'll see that he wasn't talking about marriage. In fact, the most likely scenario is that he was condemning the mixing of pagan practices with church rituals. Though I understand the trouble it may cause (and thus I think we should avoid it), I don't think there's any DIRECT condemnation of marrying unbelievers.

Your bro in Messiah,
Ben Tsion
 
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The Thadman

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Pray4Isrel said:
I believe "Equally Yolked" means "Equally Yolked" in every possible way.

That's the thing :) I'm currently looking at my friend, college roommate, and practically surrogate brother and his fiancée and all of the hurdles they are going to have to go through to make things work. He's a fellow Messianic, and she's a fluctuating between being agnostic and Greek Orthodox on a daily basis.

It almost brings me to tears, seeing what they have to go through. And he hasn't even really gotten into issues such as Torah observance with her either...

Shlomo,
-Steve-o
 
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BenTsion

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OK, I voted for 'Either Jews or Believers' though I would have a hard time marrying anyone who didn't at least respect my beliefs. Probably, I'll end up picking either a Messianic or someone who at least keeps the Shabbat and doesn't eat yucky (forbidden) food. Not because I'm judging them over their observance of such mitzvot, but because their lifestyle would be more compatible with mine. :)
 
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Achichem

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Though I was very tempted to put down "only jew",becuase I think children should grow up in non-messianic teaching and then be introduced to the messianic at an older age(which would be easiest that way,yes i'm lazy ;) )there is also that as a general rule of tumb I don't get along very well with other believers :D;however, I put down anyone who believes in G-d, simply because I can't honestly say I could handle not accepting a wife for a reason of belief past the core basics, that just not conrad.

edit: Of course reading over the question again, I think I was taking this from my prepective a little too much: what should messianic jew do, hmmmm (I would then say jew or messianic[can somone change my vote???])
 
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simchat_torah

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I too was tempted to put the same thing, however, I can't put a limit on who HaShem puts together. On the other hand, there must be some set of standards that a couple who are united as one have a foundation built together in which to stand on.

I can see an argument made against the "Jew and Messainic" marriage. It can be stressful when one accpets the messiah and the other half doesn't. Yet there is a 'witnessing' element introduced, but shouldn't this come before marriage? I can see it working as well. They have a common foundation. So I'm really torn on this.

Without a common standard (the Torah) that the couple shares, there will be too much chaos. A Jewish spouse obviously will have this foundation. It really is up in the air whether a messianic will have this foundation. A common 'believer' will obviously not have this foundation.

I just can't see a general 'believer' and a Messianic married. There would be too much conflict. One half of the partnership would desire to destroy the foundation (torah). I don't think this marriage would hold out.

This really is a sticky situation and I believe that HaShem is the only one who knows who will truly fit you, who your other half is. I do think that we need to have standards in which we examine a potential spouse. I personally would draw the line at someone who isn't Torah observant. Obviously the Messiah is an important factor, but I can also see this relationship could work at the same time... I really don't know how to respond to this poll...


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Henaynei

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simchat_torah said:
I too was tempted to put the same thing, however, I can't put a limit on who HaShem puts together.
G-d clearly puts a limit - He says that a Jew is not to marry someone from the nations and that believers are not to be unequally yoked (I agree this is not ONLY speaking to marriages but to other covenant/contract relationships as well).

I admit I stretched it by saying Messianic rather than Messianic Jew. My reasoning is that a TRUE Messianic will be following Torah.
 
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BenTsion

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Yafet,
I agree with you (wow, I've been using this sentence so often that I'm
starting to scare myself)... it is more up to whom the person is than to
what beliefs they hold to.

I mean, maybe the Torah-observant Jew you want to marry would be in
constant conflict with your faith in Messiah, whereas perhaps a Non-Torah
observant person (even a non-beliver) would accept your way of life and
faith and would be glad to participate in such life-style even if it's just to
keep you company.

Besides, it really annoys me when other believers (usually Christians) tell me
that I cannot marry an unbeliever because the Bible forbids it. I fail to see
any direct reference to that, as I said in my previous post. Though, I am
aware of the great advantages in marrying one.

All in all, it's a matter of common-sense (for instance I probably wouldn't be
able to marry a devout Catholic because her practices would be incompatible
with my lifestyle) and it really depends a lot on who the person is. :confused:

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion
 
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BenTsion

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Henaynei said:
He says that a Jew is not to marry someone from the nations

Henaynei,
But, taking only that recommendation into consideration, wouldn't it be ok for a Jew to marry a Gentile believer since believers have been grafted into Israel, the olive tree of G-d?

and that believers are not to be unequally yoked (I agree this is not ONLY speaking to marriages but to other covenant/contract relationships as well).

Since that verse doesn't clearly speak about marriage, such conclusion is open to our interpretation. While I understand and acknowledge that your interpretation is valid, I am also allowed to have my own. That's why it makes me mad when Christians (not saying you're doing that, please don't get me wrong) say that 'the Bible clearly forbids marriage betwen a believer and an unbeliever'.

I admit I stretched it by saying Messianic rather than Messianic Jew. My reasoning is that a TRUE Messianic will be following Torah.

I agree. It is not those who frequent Messianic congregations who are Messianics. I have always understood the term as being related to someone who chooses follow the Torah (otherwise I'd probably call them Noahide Believers, Christians or simply Believers).

In Messiah,
Ben Tsion
 
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koilias

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BenTsion said:
Since that verse doesn't clearly speak about marriage, such conclusion is open to our interpretation. While I understand and acknowledge that your interpretation is valid, I am also allowed to have my own. That's why it makes me mad when Christians (not saying you're doing that, please don't get me wrong) say that 'the Bible clearly forbids marriage betwen a believer and an unbeliever'.
There are plenty of instances of intermarriage in the Tenakh. Ruth, Rahab etc. separated themselves from their people however to join the Tribe. One exception might be Esther, but even she had her rights to worship HaShem and remain culturally Jew. These sanctioned marriages, Biblical approved, were allowable because the 'faith' aspect of the bond was never used to dilute the calling to remain faithful to HaShem. Where the Tenakh doesn't approve of intermarriage is when that calling IS compromised! It is very forceful against intermarriage that leads to idolatry (Solomon, Ahab, etc., etc). Nowhere does it get more explicit than Ezra 9:

The people of Israel and the priests and the Levites HAVE NOT SEPARATED from the goyim of the lands, ACCORDING TO THEIR ABOMINATIONS, etc...For they have taken some of their daughters for themselves and for their sons, so that the holy race has intermingled with the goyim of the lands; indeed, the hands of the princes and the rulers have been foremost in this unfaithfulness.

After which, the marriages are nullified...Shows you how seriously HaShem takes the issue. Intermarriage is allowed only if the non-Jew converts to Judaism...with the sole exception of Esther (and was that really a marriage, I think she was only a concubine, if even that...but that's for someone to deal with who has read what the midrash says about this, I'd be interested to hear how her marriage was halakhically approved).
 
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Shekinah

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I chose "Messianics" as my answer, bearing in mind that my definition of Messianic is someone who has received Yeshua as their Messiah, and is Torah observant.

That being said, I have been married to someone who is not Messianic, nor even a believer, for 23 years. He has never tried to stop me from practicing my faith, although he does not understand it.

I would never, never, never advise someone to marry someone who does not believe and practice the same faith you do. If the person you marry is not interested in the most important thing in the world to you, how does this make for a close marriage? This might be acceptable in a friend, but certainly not in a marriage. Marriage means that you want to open up your heart completely to the person you marry. If the most important thing to you is your faith, and the other person does not share that, essentially your marriage is going in two different directions. Because you are living to please the Lord, and the other person is not.

And if you have children, that complicates things, because quite likely, your ideas about how to raise the children will not mesh. Not to mention, how you use your money will also be an issue.

If your spouse is an unbeliever, or of a different faith than you, how do you feel about going to shul by yourself? For years and years? It gets old pretty fast.

Sorry to go on and on, but this is something I feel so strongly about. Before I married, I didn't see any great harm in marrying an unbeliever, but after years of being in an "unequally yoked" marriage, I would never recommend it to anyone.
 
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I do not know how to answer this poll question. I guess I'm leaning toward the choice of if you're Messianic already, you should marry another Messianic.

When my husband and I married, we were equally yoked in our faith and beliefs--nondenominational Christian. But, just two years into our marriage, we both were asking similar questions about Torah and why most Christians didn't seem to take it seriously. I really believe that G-d's Spirit was prompting our hearts to seek the truth. I was the first in our marriage to take that big step of faith and take G-d seriously with regard to the seventh day Sabbath. (That was a bit scary because of the opposition we encountered from church, friends, non-friends and family.) After nearly a year, my husband did the same. He can't say enough about the blessings we've had since just following this one Torah command! From that step, we've ventured out in following other commands as G-d's Spirit leads us.

I wouldn't say my husband and I are unequally yoked. We're on the same path and we're certainly being led by Yeshua each step of the way; we're just not always at the same place at the same time. From hearing others' stories, I can say my husband and I are truly blessed to be on the same page at least in our longing to follow Torah and understand G-d's teachings and instructions. Many couples marry as Christians and then one spouse follows G-d's leading with regard to Torah, but the other spouse just won't agree. It is so sad. If I didn't have my husband's support and leadership with regard to following Torah.

I am so blessed to have a husband who seeks to know the truth and loves the Scriptures as I do!
 
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