Billy Graham's New Philosophy on Larry King

Zaac

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AionOlam said:
Wow, Zaac!

Jesus said, "I am the way (follow me), the truth (listen to what I say), and the life (how to live so that you may have life and have it more abundantly). He also said His yoke is easy. His message is of love and forgiveness. His condemnations were directed at those who had authority, who preached and followed the traditions of men NOT God.

And you just missed what was being said also. I know full well what the message of God is. And I know full well that His message of love and forgiveness is encompassed in EVERY WORD that is in His HOLY BIBLE and not just the verses that say Jesus loves me.

You DO NOT decide that you're not going to preach certain parts of God's Word just because you no longer think you need to preach about such things. God's Word is God's Word. ALL of it. And we are called to preach ALL of it including the parts where JESUS HIMSELF talks about the consequences of sin.

Today's religions and religious leaders are for the most part no better than the Pharisees and Sadducces. They scare you into believing out of fear of eternal condemnation, or scare you away from believing in God at all.

There may be some out there who do. But there are far more out there who have hooked their wagons onto this false doctrine of not preaching the full counsel of God's Word. There are far more pastors who are delivering teachings whereby they only tell you God loves you while completely avoiding dealing with the consequences of sin and why men need to be saved.

Somebody needs to scare the church because right now , on this very day, people have joined many churches acoss the country under this deceptive humanistic practice of only preaching part of God's Word, and their lives and the lives of those like them continue to look JUST like the world. Why? Because some pastor has convinced them that becoming a Christian has to do with them feeling good and happy instead of them being the followers of Christ that He intends for every CHristian to be. He desires the full commitment of the Christian and that is not happening because people are not dealing with sin. ANd why are they not? Because pastors don't want anybody to feel condemned about their sin and thus they have taken it upon themselvees to not talk about the very things that Jesus Christ spoke of. :(

The benefits enjoyed by the Christian — joy, peace, fulfilment, meaning in life — are often made the ground of an appeal to the unsaved. This is, of course, a motive well-designed to lead the natural man to `make a decision' for Christ, but it is misleading when separated from the preaching of the wrath of God against sin, the need for a complete change of nature and the demand for true repentance, all of which are found in the New Testament gospel.

we have made Jesus into a loving but impotent figure, standing and knocking outside the door of our lives. There is only one door handle, on the inside, where the sinner alone can control it. The feeling excited is one of pity: `He has done so much for you; will you not now open the door to Him and allow Him to bless you with His salvation?'

This leads the hearer to feel that he has done God a favour by agreeing to believe! What could be more different from the spirit of the tax collector in the parable, who dared not approach God but stood afar off and cried in humility and repentance, `God be merciful to me a sinner'?

Yet we foolishly take it upon ourselves to not preach about sin and the result of sin because it makes people feel bad? :scratch:


God's commandments are simple: Love God and love one another. Even though it is simply stated, it is not simple to do - that is where by placing our faith in Jesus and His example, He can strengthen our resolve to follow these commandments.

And I'll make the truth of God's Word clear one more time. What God says in the two greatest commandments, is the summation of EVERY WORD of His Holy Bible, not just the ones that mention LOVE.

Evil and punishment are temporary. They are God's way of teaching us the difference between good and evil. He wants us all to mature. (After all, we are all made in His image.) And God will get all His wants, desires, wishes.

Then why are the Billy Grahams of the world taking it upon themselves to not preach it anymore?

When ever we sin there is a price we pay - death. And yes, there is and will be punishment, but it is of a "corrective" nature to cleanse us of our evil.

There will be no punishment for the one who has alowed the blood of Christ to cover the sin. But to listen to preachers today, who would know that they had a need to have their sin covered? All we hear is how you are going to be so joyous etc. Preach half of God's Word and you still end up with people in the church who look like the world and not like Christ. Why? Because you can't look like Him doing half of what He says.

17For it is time for judgment to begin with the family of God; and if it begins with us, what will the outcome be for those who do not obey the gospel of God? 1 Peter 4:17

God wants us to help water and nourish the seed of His love that is in each one of us. How do you make love grow? Not by trampling down on what little love an individual may possess (with threats of eternal damnation - especially when that's a lie). You show others through your actions in thought, word and deed. You will draw them like bees to honey. And it isn't you that is drawing them, it is God. He works through the love He gives and nurtures in each of us to draw others to Him.

And you are presenting the very same humanistic gospel as the rest. It is indeed God who draws men to Himself. And He left His Word---ALL OF IT---to do so. Not just the parts that are soothing to a person's itching ears.

Count your blessings, Zaac. If God has already called you, you should be showing the world what a wonderful gift it is, not what you think is going to happen to them if they don't receive it now.

Sheer blasphemy and this is why the world continues to spiral down. What do you mean what I think will happen to them? :scratch: God makes it very clear what will happen to them if they do not accept Him. Yet we don't preach this because it would be "mean." My goodness. How do ya'll think people come into a full understanding of what a wonderful gift salvation is without having an understanding of just how completely lost we are because of our SIN?You CANNOT know the need for a savior without understanding that sin, which will send you straight to hell, has to be dealt with. You cannot really grasp the concept of redemption and salvation and mercy and grace without grasping that sin that leads to destruction is the reason you need these things from Him.

Billy Graham in his interview on Larry King displayed the attitude of a true servant of our Lord. When he spoke of punishment and shame it was directed at himself not others.

Again, nobody is telling him to condemn anyone else because he cannot. But he is still to preach the WHOLE of God's Word and not just the parts that leave people feeling good.
 
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holo

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Billy Graham is Billy Graham and he will stand and fall before his own master. We can't judge him one way or the other.

Yes, there are people who twist the gospel into some sort of feel-good philosophy and basically denying the work of Jesus. But people like Graham focus on Jesus and only him. It's wonderful to see how he refuses to bring up (and condemn) homosexuals etc etc.

The gospel IS good news. That's what we're called to preach. I mean, some quotes from some prophet in the OT may have it's place, but if it's not linked to Jesus, I don't want it. I don't know where the idea comes from that I must somehow present the entire bible to people. Most people know how to read, I figure my job is to show them Jesus. And I don't do that by pointing out their sins so that they'll feel the need for forgiveness. No, there's a much much better way - I LOVE THEM. Just presenting God as a righteous judge will often instill fear and indignation and alienation. It's not God's judgment that whips me forward to the cross, it's his LOVE that PULLS me.
We're too caught up in our doctrines and theologies and so busy getting it all right and biblical that we never rest in Jesus' lap. But it's only there we can get life and learn how to reach the world. We reach them by loving them, no more, no less.
I reach junkie by buying him lunch. I reach the self-righteous by being gentle and not debate them. I reach the proud by being humble. That's the example I think Jesus meant for us to follow.

He didn't abolish death. He overcame it.
He didn't liberate his followers from the Romans. He gave them a different and truer kind of freedom on the inside.
He didn't condemn. He forgave. People crowded around him by their own choice.
 
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Zaac

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holo said:
Billy Graham is Billy Graham and he will stand and fall before his own master. We can't judge him one way or the other.

You may not be able to judge his comments, but I have it upon the authority of the Word of a Holy God that I can. :) It is important that we judge scripturally (Isaiah 8:20) and in truth (Jeremiah 5:1). We are to judge mercifully (Matthew 7:2) and not give respect of persons (Proverbs 24:23). We shouldn't judge where scripture is silent (Colossians 2:16), and we mustn't forget to judge ourselves (1 Corinthians 11:30-31).

In Zechariah 3:7 God states that He gives those who obey Him the authority to judge, "Thus saith the LORD of hosts; If thou wilt walk in my ways, and if thou wilt keep my charge, then thou shalt also judge my house, and shalt also keep my courts, and I will give thee places to walk among these that stand by."

Christians are to righteously judge all things.But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man." (I Corinthians 2:15)


Yes, there are people who twist the gospel into some sort of feel-good philosophy and basically denying the work of Jesus. But people like Graham focus on Jesus and only him. It's wonderful to see how he refuses to bring up (and condemn) homosexuals etc etc.

Does anyone here recognize that the entire Bible focuses on Jesus? He should condemn the sinful act of the homosexual offender just as he would the sinful acts of the heterosexual offender and make clear the need for confession of sin and repentance.

The gospel IS good news.


This is truly sad. People continue to talk about the Gospel being good news yet having no comprehension that the good news of the Gospel is the death burial and resurrection of Jesus Christ, and that the full understanding of the good news is predicated upon the full counsel of God's Word.

That's what we're called to preach. I mean, some quotes from some prophet in the OT may have it's place, but if it's not linked to Jesus, I don't want it.

Absolutely incredible. The Word of God is the essence of Jesus Christ. What does it take for Christians to understand that all the words of the Bible are Jesus Christ and not just the words in red?

I don't know where the idea comes from that I must somehow present the entire bible to people. Most people know how to read, I figure my job is to show them Jesus.

I must say that I am dumbfounded but I knew that this is how people thought. We are commissioned to GO! and teach a kingdom gospel and how anyone deduces that to mean that you are to leave out the inseparable wrath of God against the flesh and the sin committed by that flesh is beyond me.

You figure your job is to show them Jesus. Then preach ALL of Jesus instead of the "nice, soothing" parts. :)


And I don't do that by pointing out their sins so that they'll feel the need for forgiveness. No, there's a much much better way - I LOVE THEM. Just presenting God as a righteous judge will often instill fear and indignation and alienation. It's not God's judgment that whips me forward to the cross, it's his LOVE that PULLS me.

And that's a nice humanistic approach. But it sure isn't Biblical. Did Jesus not point out sin? ARe you not directed to do so in Ezekiel 3:18?

You and severla preachers have fashioned your own way that you THINK is right. God gave His way that He KNOWS to be right.


We're too caught up in our doctrines and theologies and so busy getting it all right and biblical that we never rest in Jesus' lap. But it's only there we can get life and learn how to reach the world. We reach them by loving them, no more, no less.

Again, that's a nice humanistic approach. YOU reach no one. God draws men to Himself and He draws them with the full truth of His Word that makes known a sinner's need for a Savior.

I reach junkie by buying him lunch. I reach the self-righteous by being gentle and not debate them. I reach the proud by being humble. That's the example I think Jesus meant for us to follow.

That's half of the example He set for you to follow. You seem to be dismissing the other half.
 
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Zaac

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holo said:
Uhh, ok. We'll have to agree to disagree. We won't understand each other.

I tell you what. YOU agree to disagree. :) I'm not all into this "let's placate each other" stuff. Somebody is right and somebody is wrong. And I side with the Word of God being right. ;)
 
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invisible trousers

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Hey Zaac if you're going to get all upset over Rev. Graham because he doesn't teach the whole gospel, shouldn't you also be getting upset over the many modern preachers who only care about condemnation and judgement while totally leaving out the whole love thing?

However, I don't think you're going to because you share the same beliefs as them. I guess fundamentalist preachers are exempt from this or something.

You and severla preachers have fashioned your own way that you THINK is right. God gave His way that He KNOWS to be right.
Or the pot is calling the kettle black.

Somebody is right and somebody is wrong. And I side with the Word of God being right. ;)

Roofles. My God is more right than your God. Spoken like a true fundamentalist.
 
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Zaac

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invisible trousers said:
Hey Zaac if you're going to get all upset over Rev. Graham because he doesn't teach the whole gospel, shouldn't you also be getting upset over the many modern preachers who only care about condemnation and judgement while totally leaving out the whole love thing?

Absolutely. You better believe that they catch it too. :D

However, I don't think you're going to because you share the same beliefs as them. I guess fundamentalist preachers are exempt from this or something.

Are you in the habit of asking a question and then answering it the way you want? :D
 
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Zaac

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invisible trousers said:
hmm...i'm curious as to why you haven't bothered to start threads about them

You let me know the next time one is on Larry King Live condemning people and not preaching an iota of God's mercy and love, and I'll fix that for ya. ;)
 
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fanatiquefou

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Hey, Zaac -

Do we have to talk about EVERYTHING in the Bible anytime we mention one thing in it? Should Graham have shared the entire history of God's people and his interactions with them on TV? Should Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy have been gone into exhaustively? Or is there a time and place for everything, and Billy chose to concentrate more on what the world needs to hear at this time? Did he, perhaps, have a limited time to speak, and chose to share what he felt was the most important part of Christ's message? Did he, perhaps, feel that condemnation and hatred are too often focused on by many Christians, especially concerning some of the events in the world today, and that, when he had only time for a small soundbite, he needed to offer a message of love, hope, and reconciliation?
 
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Zaac

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fanatiquefou said:
Hey, Zaac -

Do we have to talk about EVERYTHING in the Bible anytime we mention one thing in it? Should Graham have shared the entire history of God's people and his interactions with them on TV? Should Exodus, Leviticus, and Deuteronomy have been gone into exhaustively? Or is there a time and place for everything, and Billy chose to concentrate more on what the world needs to hear at this time? Did he, perhaps, have a limited time to speak, and chose to share what he felt was the most important part of Christ's message? Did he, perhaps, feel that condemnation and hatred are too often focused on by many Christians, especially concerning some of the events in the world today, and that, when he had only time for a small soundbite, he needed to offer a message of love, hope, and reconciliation?

This is what Graham said:
GRAHAM: Well, they have a right to say that, and they are true to a certain extent, but I don't -- that's not my calling. My calling is to preach the love of God and the forgiveness of God and the fact that he does forgive us. That's what the cross is all about, what the resurrection is all about, that's the gospel. And you can get off on all kinds of different side trends, and in my earlier ministry, I did the same, but as I got older, I guess I became more mellow and more forgiving and more loving. And the Jerry Falwells and people like that, I love them, I thank God for their ministry, he has a great university and two or three of my grandchildren have gone there, they have had a tremendous change in their lives for being there, and some of the other people are the same way, but at the other end of the extreme.

He didn't say anything about a time and place for everything. He said he did what he now speaks against in his earlier ministry. And then he went on to make it sound as though his "calling" to preach the love of God and forgiveness of God is confined to only preaching about certain things. And that is not preaching the gospel. Not at some other time. But he doesn't preach it at all. It's new age humanism.

It doesn't matter what he feels. God is sovereign and HE says what Gospel to preach, not Billy Graham. Yes indeed there are those who will try to condemn people with God's Word and God will deal with them.

But we live in an environment now where Billy Graham and a whole lot of other evangelicals feel as though it's less "loving" to talk about the very things that Jesus spoke of and thus they don't preach it.

That's a false Gospel.
 
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Zaac

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invisible trousers said:
i don't understand why we're arguing over a tv interview. to get a better perspective of his beliefs we should find some sermon transcripts.

He discussed what he does and does not do anymore in his sermons in the interview. That's what the discussion is about. :)
 
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dunamis3

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Yes in a way I agree with Billy Graham.
It is not our place to Judge the world.
We need to reach out to the world.

According to Paul it is not place to Judge the world but it is our place to judge the church and what is happening in the church. I think that is where the church is lacking...... looking at her self, and becomming the bride without spot or blemish
God will Judge to lost. Let us start winnning the lost.
IF we don't win the lost they will be lost forever.
Let us stop playing church, and become the body of Christ.

God Bless Steve
 
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charlesseamanj

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Zaac said:
You know I have followed the Reverend Billy Graham for years and believe him to be one of the greatest Christian figures of our time.

But even great Christian ministers have to be called on it when they start letting the world influence the way the gospel is preached.

This is what Graham said on Larry King Live recently.



Now with his infirmity and the many stents he has had placed in his brain, I give him the benefit of the doubt, but am STILL called to make clear that his stance IS NOT BIBLICAL.

The full counsel of God's Word is to be preached, not just Jesus loves me. For a second there I thought I was listening to Joel Osteen.

Billy Graham on Larry King Live
" FOR THEY WILL HEAP UP FOR THEMSELVS TEACHERS WHO WILL TICKEL THEIR ICHING EARS."
" For first there will be a falling away " (Paul answering the question about when the end will come.)
What is to be expected in the end-time? Revivals? Jesus Christ is our pastor and leader. Not Graham, not Osteen, not the bible teacher in the local college:
" when those who will worship him will worship him in Spirit and in Truth."
 
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charlesseamanj

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dunamis3 said:
Yes in a way I agree with Billy Graham.
It is not our place to Judge the world.
We need to reach out to the world.

According to Paul it is not place to Judge the world but it is our place to judge the church and what is happening in the church. I think that is where the church is lacking...... looking at her self, and becomming the bride without spot or blemish
God will Judge to lost. Let us start winnning the lost.
IF we don't win the lost they will be lost forever.
Let us stop playing church, and become the body of Christ.

God Bless Steve
Also said by Paul:
" The one in the Spirit judges all things but he himself is not judged."
 
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dunamis3

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I would agree

There is a time and place for what needs to be said.

You would never preach the same at a funeral and a wedding.
He was not behind the pulpit as an ambassador of Christ.
The people who find fault with what Mr Graham said need to look at the situation he was in. I have abot 50 of his sermons, and none of them does he ever compromise.

Not like some of our more recent prosperity preacher,,,, that preach a totally new gospel..
 
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charlesseamanj

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All of us including the ones who read this post need to dedicate them self to believing only what Jesus Christ says. For he is the truth. Only he determins what is true and false. We must go to him only for the answers.
Too many times do we figure out for ourselvs what we think is right and wrong.
 
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holo

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Itching ears, eh?

Well, what tickles the ears of the legalists, if not commandments and rules and The Narrow Path that is wide enough only for the most doctrinally correct and Biblically Sound among us? All these pointing fingers would do well to be stuck in these narrow ears and relieve the tickling if you ask me...

Bloated in knowledge, lacking in love.

The person I look up to the most, theologically, is the thief on the cross. Seriously.
 
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