We are the Temple of The Holy Spirit, how literal?

GreenEyedLady · Jul 2, 2005

SonOfThunder said:
good points raised there Mrs Gel (feel like I am talking to hair Gel)

I thought it was sin to bring on early destruction by overeating or abuse of the body by what we put into it.

Thankyou

James

Hair GEL?

Maybe I should start signing.......... The Gelster

ZiSunka · Jul 4, 2005

So God can't love and use someone who is overweight? Are you serious?

Why put these extra rules onto our faith? Nowhere did God condemn obesity nor did Christ. In fact, when the phairasees tried to condemn Christ for eating too much, he condemned them for condemning others:

Matthew 11:18 For John came neither eating nor drinking, and they say, 'He has a demon.' 19 The Son of Man came eating and drinking, and they say, 'Look, a glutton and a winebibber, a friend of tax collectors and sinners!' But wisdom is justified by her children." F49 20 Then He began to rebuke the cities in which most of His mighty works had been done, because they did not repent: 21 "Woe to you, Chorazin! Woe to you, Bethsaida! For if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. 22 But I say to you, it will be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon in the day of judgment than for you. 23 And you, Capernaum, who are exalted to heaven, will be F50 brought down to Hades; for if the mighty works which were done in you had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. 24 But I say to you that it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment than for you."

The desire to condemn people, especially for external appearances, is itself a condemnation of the very people who are condemning. That is, Jesus said not to judge, because by whatever standard you judge (on external appearance for instance) YOU bring judgment on yourself. So unless you ALWAYS perfectly appear to be like Christ, you yourself can never measure up and will be judged. If you always always behave like Christ and never slip or mess up, THEN you have nothing to worry about and can feel free to judge others based on their weight.

And lest you think that I must be obese and am trying to defend my own weight problem, I wear a size six in most clothing, either a small or an extra small petite, although today I bought a medium blouse because it was made in Peru and people and sizes are smaller there. Our average size 10 is a 48 there and our average American woman's size of XL is XXXL there.

I lovingly caution you to NOT use externals to separate the sheep from the goats, the ones God loves from the ones he has abandoned. By placing yourself on the judgment seat, you are dethoning God and that is a very, very precarious place to be!

JimfromOhio · Jul 4, 2005

God is definitely interested in what we do with our bodies. Apostle Paul reminds us that our individual bodies are the pieces that make up the entire collective Body of Christ, that me -- my whole self, me entirety, my soul, my physical body, my spirit, my strength, my love -- that's ME. When I become a believer, the Holy Spirit becomes a part of me -- is IN ME. God has invested in me. My talents, thoughts, abilities, gifts (both natural God-given and power from the Holy Spirit).

Basically, as a Christian, God is IN ME by my physical body -- after all, it IS my means of conveyance, how I communicate, how I am seen, how I do and think and feel. The Bible tells me how to please Him, what is appropriate for my body, and for my mind.

Romans 12:1-2 (NLT)
And so, dear brothers and sisters, I plead with you to give your bodies to God. Let them be a living and holy sacrifice--the kind he will accept. When you think of what he has done for you, is this too much to ask? Don't copy the behavior and customs of this world, but let God transform you into a new person by changing the way you think. Then you will know what God wants you to do, and you will know how good and pleasing and perfect his will really is.

ZiSunka · Jul 4, 2005

God is interested in what we do with our bodies, but it is still not right to judge a person's relationship with God based on what the mass media says is the ideal body type, would you agree?

Certainly God doesn't not watch The OC or Desperate Housewives and say, "Those are the ideal body types and everyone who's body is bigger than that is abusing the temple of the Holy Spirit and I cannot be with that person and therefore unless they lose weight I am going to have to cut Myself off from that person because I can only inhabit beautiful and healthy people!"?

SonOfThunder · Jul 4, 2005

lambslove said:
So God can't love and use someone who is overweight? Are you serious?

Why put these extra rules onto our faith?

I lovingly caution you to NOT use externals to separate the sheep from the goats, the ones God loves from the ones he has abandoned. By placing yourself on the judgment seat, you are dethoning God and that is a very, very precarious place to be!

Dear lambslove

This thread was started out of curiosity as to what others thought about gluttony or being overweight in terms of our bodies being The Temple of The Holy (indwelling) Spirit. It isn't to judge or to say black and white that by abusing our bodies in any way is not Biblical.

The beauty of this forum is that we can come together and discuss without judging. Each of us read The Bible and if we are wise we ask The Holy Spirit to 'speak to us' about what we read. I am sure I am not the only person who has wondered about the things we read. Some here have come to conclusions, some have not. NONE judge. it's just a discussion board where we can grow and go back to GOD for clarification.

JimfromOhio said:
Basically, as a Christian, God is IN ME by my physical body -- after all, it IS my means of conveyance, how I communicate, how I am seen, how I do and think and feel. The Bible tells me how to please Him, what is appropriate for my body, and for my mind

I actually agree with Jim on this issue (FOR ME) My opinion on this is not essential to salvation, nor would I impart what I have gained from this discussion on others. Perhaps I might live longer, be more effective for our Great God. Thats why I will think about my health and what I put into my body for that reason only.

James

GreenEyedLady · Jul 5, 2005

lambslove said:
God is interested in what we do with our bodies, but it is still not right to judge a person's relationship with God based on what the mass media says is the ideal body type, would you agree?

Certainly God doesn't not watch The OC or Desperate Housewives and say, "Those are the ideal body types and everyone who's body is bigger than that is abusing the temple of the Holy Spirit and I cannot be with that person and therefore unless they lose weight I am going to have to cut Myself off from that person because I can only inhabit beautiful and healthy people!"?

Lamb,
We are not discussing FAT people. We are discussing the sin of Gluttony. People can be over wieght and NOT be a glutton.
I think you are confusing the two. Gluttony is an eating over excessively. That is a sin because it is taking us away from God. To a glutton, food is thier God. Just like to a smoker, the smoke is thier God. Now they can both be saved, but the fact remains that the sin is a HUGE wedge in thier personal relationship with the Lord.

Leimeng · Jul 5, 2005

~ I know skinny people who are more gluttonous than fat people.
~ I do think that being overweight when you can control it does not glorify the Lord.
~ I have a friend who is a missionary in on Minanao Philippines. Every summer they offer to let others come from the States for short term mission work of two weeks or so. He talks about how many times he has to leave people behind at the 'base camp' because they are soo overweight and out of shape that they cannot physically handle hiking on foot to the churches in the countryside. Additionally, some of the people are so overweight that the locals cannot recieve ministry from them because they view their gluttony as being selfish and not honouring our Lord and Savior.
~ Given that I am from a 'large framed' family, I am aware of the struggles and issues that have to do with being overweight. I find that seeking GOD first, fasting, worship, prayer in the spirit, exercise, and using my brains all contribute to me loosing weight. When I start to ignore different aspects of that mix, I gain.
~ Continue to discuss amongst yourselves...

Peace,

Leimeng

Flatulo Ergo Sum ~~~

(***Insert Personal One Liner Here***)

ZiSunka · Jul 5, 2005

GreenEyedLady said:
Lamb,
We are not discussing FAT people. We are discussing the sin of Gluttony. People can be over wieght and NOT be a glutton.
I think you are confusing the two. Gluttony is an eating over excessively. That is a sin because it is taking us away from God. To a glutton, food is thier God. Just like to a smoker, the smoke is thier God. Now they can both be saved, but the fact remains that the sin is a HUGE wedge in thier personal relationship with the Lord.

So a person who smokes is less of a Christian than one who doesn't smoke? A person who loves to eat is more of a sinner than a person who doesn't love to eat?

Just how much does one have to eat before they are a glutton? How exactly can a person be overweight and not be eating excesively? What is the difference between a fat person and a glutton? How can you tell if a person is a glutton or just fat?

Why are you focusing on the outside when God looks at the inside?

This thread is all about judging, that's all there is to it.

Truth is, there is no place in the Bible that says gluttony is a sin. That's an old catholic wives' tale, but not a real sin.

Instead of focusing on whether or not imaginary sins separate us from the Holy Spirit, why not discuss real sins, like the sin of...

JimfromOhio · Jul 5, 2005

The word gluttony is scarcely mentioned in the Bible, though Paul implores us to exercise restraint in the use of our bodies. In fact, the biblical writers encourage us to enjoy food as much, if not more, than they warn us against it. Food itself is not shunned in the Christian Scriptures.

How can we make this natural appetite serve us in our relationships with others and God, rather than our becoming its slave? While Christians might be appropriately concerned about fat, calories, weight, and appearance, we should be driven chiefly to develop attitudes of contentment, gratitude, trust, and patience. According to theologians, gluttony and lust both require bodily abstinence as well as a "fast of the soul," a double remedy for carnal thoughts.

In a wonderful book written by Dallas Willard, The Spirit of the Disciplines, we were created to be embodied beings; everything we do spiritually involves the body.

The health of all three of our aspects (body, soul and spirit) is important, with our physical health being the least important and our spiritual health the most.

ZiSunka · Jul 5, 2005

So the fruit of the Spirit is more important than eating fruit to lose weight? Hmm, I think you are right. If everyone in this thread who is so concerned that some people eat too much would spend as much energy on developing the fruit of the Spirit, everyone would be better off.

It is possible to be gluttonous yet have the fruit of the Spirit, so I still say that eating has nothing to do with whether or not the Spirit is with us.

GreenEyedLady · Jul 5, 2005

lambslove said:
lambslove said:

So a person who smokes is less of a Christian than one who doesn't smoke?

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They are not less of a Christain, but they are sinning against God. They would not be in His perfect will. They would be serving thier flesh, not thier spirit.

A person who loves to eat is more of a sinner than a person who doesn't love to eat?

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If the person places food above God, then yes they are in sin.

Just how much does one have to eat before they are a glutton?

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Excessive overeating would be a sin. Sitting down and eating the whole quart of ice cream is a sin because you are no longer eating for nourishment but only to satisfy the flesh.

How exactly can a person be overweight and not be eating excesively?

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Its possible.

What is the difference between a fat person and a glutton?

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A fat person would be, well, just a fat person. A glutton would be any person that binges and purges, excessivly over eats, or starves them self.

How can you tell if a person is a glutton or just fat?

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That would be between that person and the Lord. Its not for us to point fingers.

Why are you focusing on the outside when God looks at the inside?

Click to expand...

Gluttony is an inward sin, not an outward sin. Once again you are talking about fat people and we are talking about sin. Why do you keep bring up fat people?

This thread is all about judging, that's all there is to it.

Click to expand...

This is not true. You are the only one who has focused on the outside, mainly fat people.

Truth is, there is no place in the Bible that says gluttony is a sin. That's an old catholic wives' tale, but not a real sin.

Click to expand...

You are wrong in saying its an old Catholic wise tale. Where did you hear that from? There is truth in gluttonly. What about if I starved myself so I could look thin? Is that a sin? What if I starved myself to the point where I got down to 100 pounds and I became ill? Regardless of what the scale says, your hurting/abusing the temple of God. It is a sin, and is compared to drunkeness. We all know we can be drunk on food.

Instead of focusing on whether or not imaginary sins separate us from the Holy Spirit, why not discuss real sins, like the sin of...

Click to expand...

This is an important sin that is not talked about often and I believe is leaving many many christians stale in thier walk because they are so obcessed with food and dieting. This is not about vanity but about obcession. If american christains would focus more on feeding thier spirit than feeding thier flesh I belive revival would be ramped across the nation.

GEL

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We are the Temple of The Holy Spirit, how literal?

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