"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image"

Carrye said:

God doesn't exist in these statues. Thus we cannot worship them as God.

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Is there or has there actually been people who believe their god is in the statue? That would be pathetic... to create their own god. I have always thought that when it says in somewhere that 'they created their own gods' means that they believed god would hear them or something like that, trough the statues. Well that's a another subject.

Dominus Fidelis said:

We don't think anyone is like God but God, ok? That is the bottom line. We worship nobody as God but God.

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Ok that's good to hear but I already assumed so.

Dominus Fidelis said:

Yes, I love her. Am I guiltly of idolatry for loving a fellow Christian?

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Not like I would be your judge here but, No.

Though there is no one good except the Father.

Carrye said:

Well, that's one sense for the word 'adore'. But how about thinking about different levels of the word?

I adore God.
I adore my parents.

I do not adore my parents in the same way that I adore God. Yet I use the same word. It's the complexity of language, and by just looking at the word, it would appear that I mean the same thing . . . but I don't; I can't.

But my parents deserve my love (adoration), as does God. But I love my parents differently than I love God. How can you know that? Because I tell you.

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I see. Have to say that we see things wery different way. (heh, news flash ) For you have different meanings for words and acts in different cases.

Dominus Fidelis said:

Great...then what are we discussing?

We've established that statues are only "graven" when you make them to worship them.

We've established that we don't worship anyone but God.

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I'm afraid that we have misunderstanding here. I don't know how did this happen but I dond't think that statues are "graven" only when you worship them. I belive that statues of mary's are graven images but God didn't disallow graven images. But we aren't allowed to make graven images for us.

Please notice the "unto thee" in 20:4.

Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: (Exo 20:4 KJV)

"unto thee" as idols or object of adore.

I guess you disagree?

Dominus Fidelis said:

You seem to be reversing your position that we do in fact make graven images.

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Yeah. But I assume graven image doesn't automatically mean a image that is worshippen. Because it's abstract to say we have image of something and we don't know is it painting or statue. But if you say graven we know it's statue (cut into a desired shape).

Sorry if I'm just mixing things up here due to my poor english.

Add:
"graven image":
"an idol or fetish, esp. one carved from wood or stone."

Dominus Fidelis said:

You seem to be reversing your position that we do in fact make graven images.

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Though I'm not reversing my position...

Carrye said:

So the Son isn't good?

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And Jesus said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God. (Mar 10:18 KJV)

Of course Jesus was and is sinless and He is good. However still interesting question since Jesus said that God is only one good almost like He(Jesus) wasn't good. But that's not the case since Jesus is God and I believe the message was simbly; not to call any one good or giving any other promoting title to any one except God.

marciadietrich said:

Bowing is not prohibited. Psalm 45:11 for example the new bride is to bow down before her king, who is her "lord" ...

then the king will fall in love with you beauty; he is your lord, bow down before him.

How about the King James version of that verse

Psalms 45:11 So shall the king greatly desire thy beauty: for he is thy Lord; and worship thou him.

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Hey, those are some seriously interesting verses. But you know i think the KJV (actually KVJ-1611) is the correct one for the signer signs about Jesus.

see this might be bit hard to read it's old english but you should be able to make up the words correctly...

My heart is inditing a good matter: I speake of the things which I haue made, touching the King: my tongue is the penne of a ready writer. (Psa 45:1 KJV-1611)

I believe King with capital K referers to Jesus.

Thou art fairer then the children of men: grace is powred into thy lips: therfore God hath blessed thee for euer. (Psa 45:2 KJV-1611)

"grace is powred into thy lips" Who else has grace in he's lips than Jesus Christ?

Gird thy sword vpon thy thigh, O most mightie: with thy glory and thy maiestie. (Psa 45:3 KJV-1611)

"O most mightie" The most mightiest - definetely Jesus! No one else should have such glory.

Thy throne (O God) is for euer and euer: the scepter of thy kingdome is a right scepter. (Psa 45:6 KJV-1611)

Says "O God" right there so either the signer switched to praising God or he was signing about God from the very beginning.

Kings daughters were among thy honourable women: vpon thy right hand did stand the Queene in golde of Ophir. (Psa 45:9 KJV-1611)

Hearken (O daughter) and consider, and incline thine eare; forget also thine owne people, and thy fathers house. (Psa 45:10 KJV-1611)

So shall the king greatly desire thy beautie: for he is thy Lord, and worship thou him. (Psa 45:11 KJV-1611)


So don't you think it's supposed to read worship since the signer signs about Jesus and God's daughters or as God bride?

What do you think? Are we going to another subject here?

Epiphanygirl said:

what about molded plaster?? Sorry couldn't help myself.

Please understand, within the context, the Ancient Jews wern't even allowed to have mural (paintings) in their homes. Do you have paintings in your home?
How about my father, he has carved ducks or wood, made for hunting, is he guilty of worshipping them?

Why do people automatically assume that Catholic's "worship" statues? Are we guilty of worshipping stained glass as well? Statues are just the 3-D version of stained glass.
Might I reccomend that you take a tour through our sticky section at the top of OBOB, there are some great reads to what the Catholic faith is, what we believe, how we worship. It's better to go directly to the source I'm glad you came in to ask us.

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Hi. I have reason to believe that you haven't read the all posts in this thread because of your questions which I have answered already. So please check the previous posts for answers. Thanks.

Btw. I'm glag too that I came to ask you. Though I have the feeling that the emotion isn't shared since I apparently breaked the forum rules...

kamikat said:

You mention in a later post that your English could be part of the problem. When it was said "I adore God. I adore my parents", it's understood by native English speakers that the meaning is different. It is the same thing with "love". I love my husband, I love my sons, I love my mother, I love God. I'm using the same word, but the actual feeling is not the same.
kamikat

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Oh yeah sure there is platonic love and other love. I understand that.