The Ark of the Covenant

Zadok7000 said:

True, the last location Written of the Ark prior to Rev. 11 was in Solomon's temple. But the fact remains, it is in heaven now. Hence my supposition of Elijah. Otherwise, how could it have gotten there?

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Hi there!



And your proof that the "ark" of Revelation is the same ark from the first temple is?

just for reference, the Old Testament indicates that two arks were built, one my a master craftman, and a second my Moses himself (if memory serves me correctly) Which of the two arks built upon this earth is the ark which is your presupposition to be the "ark" in heaven?




~serapha~

Bevlina said:

One of the most fascinating possibilities is advanced by Ethiopian Christians who claim that they have the Ark today. In Axum, Ethiopia, it is widely believed that the Ark is currently being held in the Church of Saint Mary of Zion, guarded by a monk known as the "Keeper of the Ark," who claims to have it in his possesion.
It is said that Queen Elizabeth and Prince Philip have been to see the ark. Whether that be true or false, I haven't a clue as I wasn't with them. It's interesting to know that the ark HAS to be on the earth somewhere.

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The Ark is definitely in Jerusalem or thereabouts. If the Ethiopians had the Ark why are they hiding it?

lismore said:

The Ark is definitely in Jerusalem or thereabouts. If the Ethiopians had the Ark why are they hiding it?

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to protect it. from a worldly stand point the ark could be a very dangerous weapon. or at the very least carries bragging rights to those that have it. although look what happened to the philistines....i would'nt mess with it.

Serapha said:

Hi there!



And your proof that the "ark" of Revelation is the same ark from the first temple is?

just for reference, the Old Testament indicates that two arks were built, one my a master craftman, and a second my Moses himself (if memory serves me correctly) Which of the two arks built upon this earth is the ark which is your presupposition to be the "ark" in heaven?




~serapha~

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I realize it is a very cozy tradition of man to believe the ark of the covenant (testimony) is on earth somewhere. There is no reason to put quotation marks around the word ark in Rev. 11:19 as you did - it the WORD of GOD, not my presupposition. The only logical way for the ark to be in heaven would have been for Elijah to have it in his possession when he was taken to heaven. But no matter how it got there, the fact is, it's there.
The ark I am talking about was the one in Solomon's temple:
2Chro. 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.
That's the same one that's in the Temple in Heaven now. How do we know? There is only ONE Ark of HIS Testimony. It goes before HIS people into battle. Hence, it is only brought out at the 7th Trumpet when JESUS Returns.
See Joshua (YASHUA/JESUS) 6:8-9
And it came to pass, when Joshua had spoken unto the people, that the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns passed on before the LORD, and blew with the trumpets: and the ark of the covenant of the LORD followed them. And the armed men went before the priests that blew with the trumpets, and the rereward came after the ark, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets.

Zadok7000 said:

I realize it is a very cozy tradition of man to believe the ark of the covenant (testimony) is on earth somewhere. There is no reason to put quotation marks around the word ark in Rev. 11:19 as you did - it the WORD of GOD, not my presupposition. The only logical way for the ark to be in heaven would have been for Elijah to have it in his possession when he was taken to heaven. But no matter how it got there, the fact is, it's there.
The ark I am talking about was the one in Solomon's temple:
2Chro. 5:10 There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of Egypt.
That's the same one that's in the Temple in Heaven now. How do we know? There is only ONE Ark of HIS Testimony. It goes before HIS people into battle. Hence, it is only brought out at the 7th Trumpet when JESUS Returns.
See Joshua (YASHUA/JESUS) 6:8-9
And it came to pass, when Joshua had spoken unto the people, that the seven priests bearing the seven trumpets of rams' horns passed on before the LORD, and blew with the trumpets: and the ark of the covenant of the LORD followed them. And the armed men went before the priests that blew with the trumpets, and the rereward came after the ark, the priests going on, and blowing with the trumpets.

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Revelation 11:19 And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

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Hi there!



Scholars don't appear to agree with your interpretation concerning the ark reference in Revelation 11:19.




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[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Robertson's Word Pictures of the New Testament[/font] [font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Was opened (hnoigh). Second aorist passive indicative of anoigw, with augment on the preposition as in 1 Corinthians 15:5. For the sanctuary (naoß) of God in heaven see 1 Corinthians 3:12; 1 Corinthians 7:15; 1 Corinthians 15:5; 1 Corinthians 21:22. Was seen (wpqh). First aorist passive indicative of oraw. The ark of his covenant (h kibwtoß thß diaqhkhß autou). The sacred ark within the second veil of the tabernacle (Hebrews 9:4) and in the inner chamber of Solomon's temple (1 Kings 8:6) which probably perished when Nebuchadrezzar burnt the temple (2 Kings 25:9; Jeremiah 3:16). For the symbols of majesty and power in nature here see also Revelation 6:12; Revelation 8:5; Revelation 11:13; Revelation 16:18,21. [/font]

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John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

Revelation 11:19

...and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament:
the ark was a chest, in which the covenant or tables of the law were put; upon it was the mercy seat, and over that the cherubim of glory, shadowing it; between which were the seat of the divine Majesty; this ark stood in the holy of holies, and was seen only by the high priest once a year, and was covered with a covering vail, (Numbers 4:5) ; it was wanting in the second temple ; to this the allusion is here; (See Gill on Hebrews 9:4). Now in this spiritual Gospel church state, through the pure ministry of the word, and the faithful administration of ordinances, the mysteries of the Gospel, into which angels desire to look, signified by the cherubim over the mercy seat, will be clearly revealed to all Christians, Jews and Gentiles; particularly to the former, from whom they have been hid; the vail that is over their hearts will then be done away, when they shall be turned to the Lord; and indeed the vail which is overall people will then be removed; and those truths which have been so much obscured by antichrist will be clearly seen; and especially the Lord Jesus Christ, the antitype of the ark, in whom are hid the treasures of wisdom; by whom the law, and the two tables of it, are fulfilled; and in whom they are pure and perfect; ....

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kai hnoigh o naoV tou qeou o en tw ouranw, kai wfqh h kibwtoV thV diaqhkhV autou en tw naw autou: kai egenonto astrapai kai fwnai kai brontai kai seismoV kai calaza megalh.

kibwtoV,n {kib-o-tos'}

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[size=-1][font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Thayer identifies that as in Hebrews 9:4, the ark is the ark of the covenant as in the Temple in Jerusalem, but also identifies that the ark of Revelation 11:19 is "in the heavenly temple". Rogers in "The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament" identifies the text to be an ark or box, but not necessarily THE ark of the covenant, meaning THE box known as the ark of the covenant.
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[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. [/font]
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[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]~serapha~
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Serapha said:

Hi there!



Scholars don't appear to agree with your interpretation concerning the ark reference in Revelation 11:19.




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[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]Thayer identifies that as in Hebrews 9:4, the ark is the ark of the covenant as in the Temple in Jerusalem, but also identifies that the ark of Revelation 11:19 is "in the heavenly temple". Rogers in "The New Linguistic and Exegetical Key to the Greek New Testament" identifies the text to be an ark or box, but not necessarily THE ark of the covenant, meaning THE box known as the ark of the covenant.
[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]
[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica][/font]
[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]You are, of course, entitled to your opinion. [/font]
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[font=Arial, Geneva, Helvetica]~serapha~
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I wasn't aware that Rev. 11:19 was my opinion. Let's not "spiritualize" the obvious and use other men's opinions ("experts") to back us up. I understand it is diffucult to shake comfortable traditions. But as HE told us, traditions of man make the WORD of GOD of none effect. (Mark 7:13)

Zadok7000 said:

I wasn't aware that Rev. 11:19 was my opinion. Let's not "spiritualize" the obvious and use other men's opinions ("experts") to back us up. I understand it is diffucult to shake comfortable traditions. But as HE told us, traditions of man make the WORD of GOD of none effect. (Mark 7:13)

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This forum wasn't created for theology. Therefore, perhaps your comments on theological interpretaion of scriptures belong on a theology forum rather than to continue to use the biblical archaeology forum to support your personal theology.


~serapha~

Hi Seraph

That temple link you provided is very interesting, But why did the Jews give back the temple mt to the Arabs??????

I would think that if the majority of the people of Israel really wanted a temple the Government would have kept the temple MT,

I am thinking it may have been a strategic move becuase if the Jews would have done any thing to the Al Aqsa moque every muslim in the world would have declared war on them,

That is a heck of a lot of Muslims! But It seems to me also the greatest political statement the jews could have made thet they are here to stay as a people and a nation would have been to start rebuilding the temple then,

I am wondering that if the Ark is actually found that it may not lead to another actual war between Jews and arabs over the Temple mt,

yours in Christ
deu 58

deu58 said:

Hi Seraph

That temple link you provided is very interesting, But why did the Jews give back the temple mt to the Arabs??????

yours in Christ
deu 58

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Hi there!




Well, the Jews didn't really "give" the Temple Mount to the Muslims... for a history of the Temple Mount....



http://www.sacredsites.com/middle_east/israel/jerusalem.html


~serapha~

Serapha said:

This forum wasn't created for theology. Therefore, perhaps your comments on theological interpretaion of scriptures belong on a theology forum rather than to continue to use the biblical archaeology forum to support your personal theology.


~serapha~

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The only way a discussion of the Ark of the Covenant is in this Biblical Archaeology forum at all is based on the un-Biblical assumption that the Ark is still on earth. If the Ark isn't here, there is nothing to "dig up" or "find".
Hence, my admonition to see Rev. 11:19 for the true location of the Ark. If you choose to DENY that scripture and say the Ark is not in heaven, that is your choice. But my pointing out of the contrary does not make it a "theological" discussion.