any science brains here ? for ya?

Evie · Mar 18, 2005

this is something that I have tried looking into and have always wondered. Ok.if hell is a place of torment and it's suppose to be so hot down there,is a volcano's lava have anything to do with it? Is the lava that comes from the pits of the volcano,any way connected to hell? :scratch:

Please anyone,any scripture or input,thanks alot in advance.

Rae_Psyche · Mar 18, 2005

Thats a question ive asked myself, but never really looked into it. I always thought of the core of the Earth as hell, but im not quite sure that's right. Its an interesting question. The lava that we see is just molten rock, I dont know how the "lava" in hell is like.....

You definitely got my attention, im gonna try to research this.

fishstix · Mar 18, 2005

Evie said:
this is something that I have tried looking into and have always wondered. Ok.if hell is a place of torment and it's suppose to be so hot down there,is a volcano's lava have anything to do with it? Is the lava that comes from the pits of the volcano,any way connected to a volcano?
Please anyone,any scripture or input,thanks alot in advance.

No, the lava from a volcano is not literally spurting out of Hell. While Heaven and Hell are both real, they aren't the sort of places that you could go to using only physical means. They aren't just a part of the natural world, they are supernatural. You would not be able to reach either one just by changing your location in the physical world. Lava, however, is coming from an ordinary place, not a supernatural one. You could certainly think of the pain that could be caused by the heat from a volcano as a metaphor for the torture of hell, but it would be just a metaphor.

silentpoet · Mar 18, 2005

Have you read the parable of lazarus(not the one Jesus raised from the dead) the beggar and the rich man? It speaks of a great barrier between heaven and hell and earth too if I am not mistaken.

chilibowl · Mar 19, 2005

If you ever want to visit hell just ask, and ask till "he" shows ya.. but let me save you the therapy, you'll need when you wake up... Now that you all think I'm crazy just hear me out. I'm not one of those jump up and down "can see demon that walk among us types" if there was an opposite that would be me. I'm very conservative and hold everything to the truth of scripture, and with this story there is no way to do that so don't make this a sunday school sermon or belive it over any biblical fact... just view it as a "preacher story" you know the ones he uses to get his sermon going...

Well, I was brought up in the church and did all the "things" you were supposed to do to get saved, and then I ran across the verse that says all things are exceptable.. and I stoped reading, and for the next 5 or 6 years went crazy I questioned everything and everyone "cause I was free" then someone brought up the fires of hell, and thinking on the fly I asked the teacher so what? so what if the fires burn hotter than anything you could imagine. so what there is a lake of it. pain is a physical thing we will be spiritual. how is that going to hurt me? she didn't have an answer, the sunday school director didn't have an answer, and they went to the preacher and he didn't have an answer.. he came back the next week and told me that there was a place just out side jew-ru-selm, named something like hell-ania where they had a fire and it burned all the time and they put everything in it, all garbage, junk, the diseased dead people, and animals and for people then, it was about the worst place you could imagine.. so they, compaired that to hell and hell isn't an actually firey place.... and at that, I really kicked it up into high gear cause I feared nothing, heaven or hell it didn't matter, and I continued that way for awhile dropping the whole church thing!

UNTIL

One night I came home really "messed up" and barely make it to bed. then in my dream I was at the great white throne judgement. with my, church membership card, my list of "activities" and my baptism certificate.. and I was standing behind a guy I knew that was one of those "Superchristians" that did everything and totally was ... it .. You know the guy, the one who your dad or mom points at, and says: that how your supposed to be.. and then when he was called he picked up his accolades and presented them to jesus as a gift, and jesus held them to the fire of his judgement and it was all burnt up in the fire.. It was so great, he stood before the lord sindged and smoking, smelling of a really hot uncoated ceramic pot, would... jesus said something to him, and he went thru the gate with is head low... as you can Imagine I wasn't as confident as I was that earlier, that morning, but in my heart I knew I did everything I was told to do to be saved, so when I was called I picked up my stuff and went before the lord, and before I started to tell jesus all that I did, he told me: You have been weighed, you have been measured, and you have been found wanting.... Depart from me I never knew you.....

....As I fell to my feet to beg him for mercy, I relised that i was falling fast very fast, and out of that free fall came fear, then the fear grew to panic, I closed my eyes and the darkness made the panic stricken free fall seem much, Much worse! So I quickly opened my eyes and noticed that it was getting darker the further I fell from the bright city... Then What I can only describe as a fear (I wish I have a better word than fear) FEAR to the 10th power. started to consume my brand new body like fire.. I say fire, not because it was a flame, but the fear burned and every nerve inside and outside my body screamed in panic, almost like pain... when your burned you only feel it from the heat source to the contact point of your skin... This ..this is from the inside out, and everything in between... Every inch of flesh every cell in that inch every foical of hair screamed in FEAR*10th... As the darkness/fear coted me like thick tar, and as the last glimmer of light faded to nothingness you could hear the crying and the just "freaking out" of other people, but just bearly though. because your own screams and "freaking out" blocks just about everything else out..all the while falling faster and faster, and the further you fall the worse it gets... No light, no actual fire, nothing... just nothing but fear and regret for what i should of done... Hell isn't a place where the devil rules... he falls in fear too... that's all there is to do... "Not that it gets boring, because you can never get use to it cause every second it gets worse"..

I got to stay long enough to hear the weeping and nashing of teeth "Freaking out" and I was placed back into my bed, where I sweated through my down comforter pillow "both sides" and into a full siolet of myself laying straight on my back (I sleep all over, never on my back) into the mattress itself "No I didn't pee my pants (round stain) not a body out line, plus after i thanked god for returning me and pledging my life to him I went to the bathroom... I was 16 or 17 And I remember it better than my wedding... colors, smell, FEAR*10th, blackness, screams, pain, and REGRET all of it... what was the worst, what I fear the most now, what brings tears to my eyes now. is what jesus said" weighed.. measured... wanting... Depart from me I never knew you!

It was like your dad telling you that your worthless but....more... that was hell, one i want nothing to do with anymore....

Like I said this is not scripture so don't teach it or share it as gospel don't even talk of it as anything but a dream, because I'm sure hell is FAR worse! I think the lord let me experience ( in my dream)what I could understand and what i was able to endure with out losing my mind... He just cracked the door and let me peer in... for some reason I remember someone telling me or maybe I woke up with that on my heart... and that "cracked the door and let me peer in.. statement has been told everytime i retold this story...

... let me tell you if that is only but a fraction, then hell is not where you want to be.

Yitzchak · Mar 19, 2005

I have always found it interesting that in the creation account in Genesis it mentions a seprating of the waters on the earth from the waters above the sky. I have always wondered if we went far enough into space if we would find water??

Anyway, I wonder about the same issue about the belly of the earth. I do not have an answer though.

fishstix · Mar 19, 2005

Yitzchak said:
I have always wondered if we went far enough into space if we would find water??

Comets are made largely of water (in ice form).

soyness · Mar 19, 2005

wow, i never thought of that question.

horuhe00 · Jun 14, 2005

I thank chilibowl for telling us his dream. (I'd call experience) I belive that was indeed a peek into the spiritual world and not just a dream.

His experience has to do more or less with the original post. We have always viewed Hell as being in the center of the Earth and Heaven as being in the clouds. I don't belive that they are literaly in these places because then men in outerspace have been above Heaven.

Anyway, the key point I want to make is that When one trips or falls, one falls towards the center of the Earth. (One doesn't fall into the sky) Chilibowl's dream is only one of many such experiences people have had and all of the ones I have heard have the same thing in common: falling.

My theory is that these same visions of the spiritual realm have been had by our ancestors, and they were the same back then as they are now. And since all of them include falling into despair, my guess is that they assumed Hell is in the center of the Earth.

kathydiane · Jun 14, 2005

Wow, Chilibowl, I think I would be afraid to go to sleep again after that dream. That reminds me of an episode of "Unsolved Mysteries" I saw one time where this man actually died for a few minutes and described being in Hell. He came back and is a pastor now.

Dicy mind · Jun 15, 2005

I had similar nightmare that chilibowl had only that it was very short - I simply fell in to hell and even the dream lasted like two seconds I was shocked and stunned the WHOLE day after I woke up.

wayfaring man · Jun 15, 2005

Yitzchak said:
I have always found it interesting that in the creation account in Genesis it mentions a seprating of the waters on the earth from the waters above the sky. I have always wondered if we went far enough into space if we would find water??

Anyway, I wonder about the same issue about the belly of the earth. I do not have an answer though.

And God said, Let there be a firmament in the midst of the waters, and let it divide the waters from the waters.
And God made the firmament, and divided the waters which were under the firmament from the waters which were above the firmament: and it was so.
And God called the firmament Heaven. And the evening and the morning were the second day.
And God said, Let the waters under the heaven be gathered together unto one place, and let the dry land appear: and it was so. <-----> Genesis 1:6-9

This may also simply be referring to the the " fallen " condensed water being sparated from the vaporized " risen " water , as in clouds .

This also can serve as a metaphor for the separation which exists between being earthly minded and being heavenly / spiritually minded . The first is held down until the Light of The Son Shines upon it , whereupon it changes form to rise above . This process , known as " distillation " , also ensures that all impurities are left behind . Hallelujah !

I've got to go now but would like to read & write more in this thread later .

May The Lord Be Magnified .

wm

Rafael · Jun 15, 2005

Matthew 12:40 For as Jonah was in the belly of the great fish for three days and three nights, so I, the Son of Man, will be in the heart of the earth for three days and three nights.

Ps 63:9 But those plotting to destroy me will come to ruin. They will go down into the depths of the earth.

Ephesians 4:8 Therefore it is said, "When he ascended on high he made captivity itself a captive; he gave gifts to his people."
9 (When it says, "He ascended," what does it mean but that he had also descended into the lower parts of the earth?

I like to take the scriptures literally whenever possible, as God can perform anything He desires to accomplish. It is entirely possible that hell could hold those waiting for the second death and judgment where the earth is also destroyed by fire. I only know that I do not want to find myself in such a place, nor do I want to see anyone go there.

Here is a good site that most people might scoff at, but it does have some scientific data and personal testimonies that are interesting to read and think about.

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

fishstix · Jun 15, 2005

Rafael said:
Here is a good site that most people might scoff at, but it does have some scientific data and personal testimonies that are interesting to read and think about.

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

I don't consider that site a very reliable source of information myself. While I'm sure that they may make a few good points, they go overboard on taking things literally. They not only take Scripture literally, but also take contemporary literature and song lyrics literally as well. They choose not to see literary devices and imagery even in modern writing but to take everything at face value. I've read a few articles on their site that were so clearly skewed by that approach that I question the reliability of their entire site.

Rafael · Jun 15, 2005

fishstix said:
I don't consider that site a very reliable source of information myself. While I'm sure that they may make a few good points, they go overboard on taking things literally. They not only take Scripture literally, but also take contemporary literature and song lyrics literally as well. They choose not to see literary devices and imagery even in modern writing but to take everything at face value. I've read a few articles on their site that were so clearly skewed by that approach that I question the reliability of their entire site.

Hmmm, I didn't take the time to read and critique your post, but after reading it, I disagree. At least they answer with the word of God and quote it in a rather comprehensive way. I don't think that the site would be my choice as an evangelistic tool, if that is your complaint, but that is not what this is about. The original post asked specifically about hell, its relationship to earth, and any science or added evidence. The site used the word of God very thoroughly to show just that along with some other evidences that may or may not have been reliable. I know that people like to make scripture say what they would rather have it say, watering it down a bit, but Jesus spent quite a bit of time warning us of a literal hell - like it or not. Are you saying to dismiss all the word of God as having any literal worth in its meaning of hell? Every word? Ya know, people didn't like what Jesus said when He came, and they killed Him for saying it and making it as plain to understand as possible. He was and still is an offense to the pride of man. Maybe it was all a misunderstanding, and if Jesus had just picked a better set of words and metaphores, a terrible mistake could have been avoided - - Not - no way! No matter how many parables and words He would have used, they would have offended the sinful will of mankind.
I don't expect people to like the message of hell, but Jesus wasn't afraid to talk of it. The only things I see questionable are those accounts given by men. The scriptures will be proven out by God as true, I am sure, without any help or interpretation of man. He as Creator would know how to effectively communicate the truth to His own creation. Unquenchable flames can be metaphorical, but I doubt even they can really convey the real horror of what hell would be whether in earth or a massive black hole of distorted time in space. I suppose that is why God gives us even more metaphors to somehow through sin avoid the meaning of, as there are many scriptures that talk about how terrible and frightening such a place as hell would be. God uses simple images even a child would understand and fear so there is no mistake that such a place is not where man was intended to go but was headed without a Savior. The site mentions nearly all the scriptures of the Bible on hell faithfully, IMO, but I am certainly aware of those that do not believe the word of God stands without interpretations of man that change the meaning into something more palatable and tickle the ears of the hearer. The Bible says that in the last days, people will not tolerate sound doctinre or the word of truth, but will gather to themselves false prophets and teachers who will change the word of God into something else that they like to hear more than judgment or fear of God. They would maintain the form of religion and appearance of godliness, but deny the power of God.

2Timothy 4:Ti 4:3 For the time will come when they will not endure sound doctrine; but after their own lusts shall they heap to themselves teachers, having itching ears;
2Ti 4:4 And they shall turn away their ears from the truth, and shall be turned unto fables.

2Ti 3:5 holding to the outward form of godliness but denying its power. Avoid them!

Rev. 22:18 And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the prophetic words of this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book.
19 And if anyone removes any of the words of this prophetic book, God will remove that persons share in the tree of life and in the holy city that are described in this book.

wayfaring man · Jun 16, 2005

Evie said:
this is something that I have tried looking into and have always wondered. Ok.if hell is a place of torment and it's suppose to be so hot down there,is a volcano's lava have anything to do with it? Is the lava that comes from the pits of the volcano,any way connected to hell?
Please anyone,any scripture or input,thanks alot in advance.

Hi Evie , and all ,

There's apparently a lot of molten rock ( magma ) beneath the earth's surface . When volcanos erupt this molten rock sometimes comes to the surface .

As has been shown , Scripture equates hell with the subterranean earth , opposite heaven which is above , instead of below the earth's surface .

( See Rafael's 1st post )

I suppose a volcano erupting could be a sign " that hell was breaking loose " upon earth .

Jesus spoke of God being able to destroy both soul and body in hell .

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell . <-----> Matthew 10:28

Yet in perhaps even greater detail we read in Revelation that " hell and death are cast into the lake of fire " .

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. <-----> Revelation 20:14

What could be called " the first death " , or the death of the body , is followed by The Judgment , ( See Hebrews 9:27 ) ; and following The Judgment , those who are not found written in Christ's Book of life , have their soul destroyed in the lake of fire ( the second death ) .

And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire. <-----> Revelation 20:15

According to Matthew 25:41 - this " ' everlasting fire ' was prepared for the devil and his angels ".

But apparently , if we humans bond with Satan by heeding his voice unrepentantly , we too , will share in his fate , even as those angels which fell from grace .

As to the exact nature of hell and the lake of fire ... it's hard to declare from this distance . I'd much rather become more aquainted with the precise nature of The Kingdom of Heaven . But this thought comes to mind .

In The Day of The Lord , all will be revealed .

In the mean time, when there were gathered together an innumerable multitude of people, insomuch that they trode one upon another, he began to say unto his disciples first of all, Beware ye of the leaven of the Pharisees, which is hypocrisy.
For there is nothing covered, that shall not be revealed; neither hid, that shall not be known.
Therefore whatsoever ye have spoken in darkness shall be heard in the light; and that which ye have spoken in the ear in closets shall be proclaimed upon the housetops. <-----> Luke 12:1-3

In the day when God shall judge the secrets of men by Jesus Christ according to my gospel. <-----> Romans 2:16

Every man's work shall be made manifest: for the day shall declare it, because it shall be revealed by fire; and the fire shall try every man's work of what sort it is . <-----> 1st Corinthians 3:13

And if someone lived all their life doing everything to " be and feel good " , but neglected to honestly confess their sin before God in the hope of The Salvation which is in Christ ; and then in that Day when every thing is made plain , and there is no longer any cloud of obscurity or darkness of deceit , but the Truth Shining Brightly in The Face of Jesus Christ , the reality of such folly and foolishness , together with the knowledge that all one had to do was become as a little child before God in The Light of Christ's Testimony , and surrender their life into God's hands , that they could now be relishing the Joy and The Splendor of Eternal Paradise , but instead are destined to be eternally separated with no chance of ever being reconciled to God ... the combined weight and frustration and raging regret would likely ignite spontaneous combustion from the inner most bowels , bursting with the intense heat of being crushed under a sentence of undeniable , everlasting condemnation .

This seems to be somewhat the nature of the fire which awaits those who align themselves with the devils ways , and hearken not to the call of The Gospel of Jesus Christ .

The wicked shall be turned into hell, and all the nations that forget God. <-----> Psalm 9:7

But like I said , I'd rather be looking into heavenly matters , and how to enter into a perpetual state of complete harmony with The Nature of Christ's Everlasting Kingdom of Righteousness , Peace , and Joy .

May The Lord Pleased To Bless And Keep That Which We've Committed Unto Him In Faith . In Jesus Name . Amen .

Sincerely ,

wayfaring man

wayfaring man · Jun 16, 2005

Quote:
Originally Posted by: Rafael
Here is a good site that most people might scoff at, but it does have some scientific data and personal testimonies that are interesting to read and think about.

http://www.av1611.org/hell.html

fishstix said:
fishstix said:

I don't consider that site a very reliable source of information myself. While I'm sure that they may make a few good points, they go overboard on taking things literally. They not only take Scripture literally, but also take contemporary literature and song lyrics literally as well. They choose not to see literary devices and imagery even in modern writing but to take everything at face value. I've read a few articles on their site that were so clearly skewed by that approach that I question the reliability of their entire site.

Click to expand...

I just took the time to look into the site in question above .

It seems they offer some well researched assertions . But with somewhat of a spirit of over statement , in the lack of objectivity which includes verses and testimony which can offer a contrasting depiction .

Such as -

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. <-----> Malachi 4:1-3

This passage suggests the idea that the wicked will be utterly comsumed . ( And there are others like it . ) - ( Jeremiah 17:18 for example )

It seems best to consider all God's Word on any given subject , and not highlight only those passages which support a particular view , or notion , especially when dealing with a subject which is yet to be clearly brought into plain sight .

Scripture warns against " intruding into things which we have not seen , [ and being prideful to think we already know what has not yet been fully revealed ] ". ( See Colossians 2:18 & 1st Corinthians 8:2 )

In couple of places Jesus said -

And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. <-----> John 14:29 ( See Also John 13:19 Also 16:4 )

And Paul said of our current state that -

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. <-----> 1st Corinthians 13:12

Regarding the concept of Hell , Everlasting Punishment , etc. , how much detail is really necessary for us to know that , it's certainly the place / state of being / ceasing to be , that we should avoid , if at all possible .

The knowledge of severe punishment for unrepentant wickedness and rebellion towards God , isn't what saves us , although it may help to point us in Christ's direction ; it is however the Intimate Knowledge of Jesus Christ and being transformed by His Mercy , Faith , and Grace , into that which is Pleasing in God's Sight , which saves us , from the grieving which now is , and The Wrath which is to come .

The statement below appears to be an overstatement . When someone resorts to " overstatement " it usually indicates impure inspiration is somewhat behind their motivation ; otherwise they would have the confidence to let what is self-evident witness on it's own without exagerating or embellishing the facts .

Quote From site in question - ( " The Truth About Hell " ) --- Jesus Christ spoke more on hell than any other subject.

Click to expand...

The other day I read the quote that - " Jesus taught / spoke more about money than any other single thing " .

At the time this statement didn't sit well with my spirit , so I did a little research and found that verses which mention money , penny , pound , etc. in The Gospels totalled about 40 some odd . But verses which spoke of faith belief , trust , etc. totalled around 100 or so .
Now we have the assertion that " Jesus spoke more about hell than any other subject " ... Well , after a quick comparison -- hell , & fire relating to hell is mentioned by Jesus in approxiametely 50 verses ; but faith and believe is mentioned by Jesus in somewhere around 75 verses .

It still appears that Jesus spoke / taught / preached about faith and believing more than anything else .

If you haven't already , you should find it interesting to look in a concordance and see how many times faith is mentioned in The Old Testament ( and consider the context in which it is mentioned ) , and then look to see how many times faith is mentioned in The New Testament . I think most will be surprised at what they find ... I know I was , the first time it occurred to me to look it up .

As far as " The rich man and Lazarus " and whether it is an actual account of a literal occurance ; or more of a parable in metaphorical language .

I can see potential for it to be either ... but regardless the reason Christ spoke it shoud remain unchanged ... to warn and encourage us to remember those most in need , and not lay up treasures on earth , but lay them up in Heaven instead . ( See Galatians 2:10 ; Matthew 6:19-21 & 1st Timothy Chapter 6 )

Whenever discussing matters which tend to stir debate , we should be on guard against a spirit of strife which can steal our attention away from being individually responsive to The Lord's clearly revealed Instruction for our life . For it is in that realm of interaction with Christ and His Holy Spirit that our spiritual growth and development takes place which confirms that our calling and election is sure . ( See 2nd Peter Chapter 1 ) - Link provided below -

Click Here - Link To 2nd Peter Ch. 1

Peace and Joy In The Beloved .

wm

wayfaring man · Jun 16, 2005

chilibowl said:
...............................................................................

... let me tell you if that is only but a fraction, then hell is not where you want to be.

Just got around to reading chilibowl's dream / vision ( It's on page 1 of this thread .)

Sounds about right in line with the nature of The Lord's warnings and exhortations .

Many years ago , I used to drink a lot of beer and smoke a lot of tobacco and marijuana .

Well , at first it seemed invigoratingly fun ... but soon became a ball and chain budensome thing . Then The Lord showed me some things and I was free from those addictions .

But after a couple of years and a painful case of " road rash " , I fell back into the frivolous party scene . And even though at first it was to help with the pain , I was once again hooked ; so that even when the pain was gone , there I was trying to " manage my high " ; but a strange and unsettling thing began to take place , each and every time I went beyond being sober to being intoxicated - I would usually be sitting , or would have to sit down right away , for the overwhelming sensation was that a trap door had suddenly opened up directly beneath me , and I was falling in space , faster and faster , continually falling , falling , falling , never hitting the bottom . The sensation was so strong that even though I wanted to scream my muscles and voice were paralyzed . And I remember thinking that The Lord is giving me a sample of what I can expect to experience if I continue down this road of sinful self indulgence . It was to me a taste of what it feels like to be cast with the devil into the bottomless pit . ( See Revelation Chapter 20 )

Now , I thank The Lord for giving me those warnings , for it wasn't very long after they became a regular consequence of succumbing in that manner to those unwise sinful indulgences ; that I agreed whole heartedly , that such could not continue , and was once again brought into the liberated state by Christ's Mercy , Truth , and Grace .

And I rejoice in my spirit that The Lord has apparently done the same " Loving thing " for chilibowl , appreciate your sharing !

May The Lord Be Pleased To Effectually Reprove Us Now , According To Our Need , While We Still Have The Opportunity To Repent And Avenge Our Past Disobedience . For His Holy Name's Sake . Amen .

Sincerely ,

wm

Rafael · Jun 16, 2005

wayfaring man said:
I just took the time to look into the site in question above .

It seems they offer some well researched assertions . But with somewhat of a spirit of over statement , in the lack of objectivity which includes verses and testimony which can offer a contrasting depiction .

Such as -

For, behold, the day cometh, that shall burn as an oven; and all the proud, yea, and all that do wickedly, shall be stubble: and the day that cometh shall burn them up, saith the LORD of hosts, that it shall leave them neither root nor branch.
But unto you that fear my name shall the Sun of righteousness arise with healing in his wings; and ye shall go forth, and grow up as calves of the stall.
And ye shall tread down the wicked; for they shall be ashes under the soles of your feet in the day that I shall do this, saith the LORD of hosts. <-----> Malachi 4:1-3

This passage suggests the idea that the wicked will be utterly comsumed . ( And there are others like it . ) - ( Jeremiah 17:18 for example )

It seems best to consider all God's Word on any given subject , and not highlight only those passages which support a particular view , or notion , especially when dealing with a subject which is yet to be clearly brought into plain sight .

Scripture warns against " intruding into things which we have not seen , [ and being prideful to think we already know what has not yet been fully revealed ] ". ( See Colossians 2:18 & 1st Corinthians 8:2 )

In couple of places Jesus said -

And now I have told you before it come to pass, that, when it is come to pass, ye might believe. <-----> John 14:29 ( See Also John 13:19 Also 16:4 )

And Paul said of our current state that -

For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known. <-----> 1st Corinthians 13:12

Regarding the concept of Hell , Everlasting Punishment , etc. , how much detail is really necessary for us to know that , it's certainly the place / state of being / ceasing to be , that we should avoid , if at all possible .

The knowledge of severe punishment for unrepentant wickedness and rebellion towards God , isn't what saves us , although it may help to point us in Christ's direction ; it is however the Intimate Knowledge of Jesus Christ and being transformed by His Mercy , Faith , and Grace , into that which is Pleasing in God's Sight , which saves us , from the grieving which now is , and The Wrath which is to come .

The statement below appears to be an overstatement . When someone resorts to " overstatement " it usually indicates impure inspiration is somewhat behind their motivation ; otherwise they would have the confidence to let what is self-evident witness on it's own without exagerating or embellishing the facts .

The other day I read the quote that - " Jesus taught / spoke more about money than any other single thing " .

At the time this statement didn't sit well with my spirit , so I did a little research and found that verses which mention money , penny , pound , etc. in The Gospels totalled about 40 some odd . But verses which spoke of faith belief , trust , etc. totalled around 100 or so .
Now we have the assertion that " Jesus spoke more about hell than any other subject " ... Well , after a quick comparison -- hell , & fire relating to hell is mentioned by Jesus in approxiametely 50 verses ; but faith and believe is mentioned by Jesus in somewhere around 75 verses .

It still appears that Jesus spoke / taught / preached about faith and believing more than anything else .

If you haven't already , you should find it interesting to look in a concordance and see how many times faith is mentioned in The Old Testament ( and consider the context in which it is mentioned ) , and then look to see how many times faith is mentioned in The New Testament . I think most will be surprised at what they find ... I know I was , the first time it occurred to me to look it up .

As far as " The rich man and Lazarus " and whether it is an actual account of a literal occurance ; or more of a parable in metaphorical language .

I can see potential for it to be either ... but regardless the reason Christ spoke it shoud remain unchanged ... to warn and encourage us to remember those most in need , and not lay up treasures on earth , but lay them up in Heaven instead . ( See Galatians 2:10 ; Matthew 6:19-21 & 1st Timothy Chapter 6 )

Whenever discussing matters which tend to stir debate , we should be on guard against a spirit of strife which can steal our attention away from being individually responsive to The Lord's clearly revealed Instruction for our life . For it is in that realm of interaction with Christ and His Holy Spirit that our spiritual growth and development takes place which confirms that our calling and election is sure . ( See 2nd Peter Chapter 1 ) - Link provided below -

Click Here - Link To 2nd Peter Ch. 1

Peace and Joy In The Beloved .

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Click to expand...

Jeremiah and Malachi's testimony doesn't sway my trust in God to relay the truth where it can easily be understood. The portions of scripture you suggest tell us people are consumed only confuse the issue between body and spirit. The body can be burned to ash and consumed before God gives a new body or the old one resurrected to stand for eternal judgment.

Warning people about strife with scripture would also be out of balance if the scriptures for using the word for reproof and rebuke are not also remembered and used, as just plain standing up for what is true is also the love of a true friend.

Pr 27:6 Faithful are the wounds of a friend; but the kisses of an enemy are deceitful.

How one gathers their data from scripture can be manipulated to show what one wants to back up - this is true, so I contacted and hope to get a reply from the site about why their statement about Jesus speaking about hell more than any other subject contradicts the findings you say your resources indicate. Where did you or how did you get your findings? Are you sure you used all words that would reference hell? Perhaps asking the site owners will shed some light on that question. Personally, I think there is nothing more definative than the word of God, as it bring light and clarity to even the so-called grey areas men love to keep because of the flesh not being reckoned as dead and the spirit alive.

Do you think that God in the flesh might have some inside knowledge about hell to be able to relate the story of Lazarus and the rich man to us from truth? Surely, God who stand outside of the realm of time can see all things and draw upon the well of truth that only He can see and know fully. Does He have to stand on the weak ground of men and their judgment of metaphors? No. In my imagination God is well able to perform all of His word with power we do not even dream of, and speaks light and truth to the willing and thirting for truth hearer. Indeed, we do look through a glass darkly, and as we see here, that scripture can be used to stand up against the dark forces that cast doubt at His word or even used to cloud the truth and try to bring doubt and grey area to what ought to have been full of light and clarity. God's word is a lamp unto our feet and gives us a clear path to walk upon. What is to the left and to the right cannot be trusted - only God and His Word.

Rafael · Jun 16, 2005

The reply from the site about hell was prompt, wayfaring man. Here it is in full.

This is documented in many sources, and I have personnally researched Jesus' words. When I say His words, I am speaking of the words in the Gospel when He spoke -- the words in red,

The following quote is from What Happened to Hell by John Blanchard, p. 130

"It has been calculated that of 1,870 verses recording words which Jesus spoke, thirteen percecnt are about judgement and hell. Jesus spoke more about these two topics than about any other (angels came second and love third. The second surprise is that of about forty parables Jesus told, more than half of them related to God's eternal judgement of sinners."

"Blessed Assurance, Jesus is Mine!

Terry Watkins
terry@av1611.org

any science brains here ? for ya?

what he said! <img src="http://www3.christianforum

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