universal salvation

Please stay on the topic if you can

If you simply want to say,that universal salvation is
just some silly idea of men,and there is no afterlife,
be brief please

If you have some scriptures handy,please post.

Thank you!



1:I believe that scripture supports universal salvation
2:I am Christian and wish there was universal salvation
3:I am Christian and believe there should not be universal salvation
4:I believe that all the people have the same destiny after the death.
5:I believe there will be purification for some,and then they will be saved.
6:I don't believe in preserving 'self'
7:Christian God would seem more logical if there was universal salvation.
8:No one will be tormented,but not all will get to heaven.
9:There is a chance to get saved after the death.
10:other,please explain

Why didn't you give the option:


"I am a Christian and i do not believe in universal salvation." ???



All Praise The Ancient Of Days

2 or 3 ?

b*unique said:

Please stay on the topic if you can

If you simply want to say,that universal salvation is
just some silly idea of men,and there is no afterlife,
be brief please

If you have some scriptures handy,please post.

Thank you!



1:I believe that scripture supports universal salvation
2:I am Christian and wish there was universal salvation
3:I am Christian and believe there should not be universal salvation
4:I believe that all the people have the same destiny after the death.
5:I believe there will be purification for some,and then they will be saved.
6:I don't believe in preserving 'self'
7:Christian God would seem more logical if there was universal salvation.
8:No one will be tormented,but not all will get to heaven.
9:There is a chance to get saved after the death.
10:other,please explain

Click to expand...

Other; parts of 1, 8, and 9

This one holds that there are 2 main parts to salvation; Salvation from physical death, to which every person who is born to this world will be partakers of. (which can be considered a universal salvation)

And 2) salvation from spiritual death or the seperation from God. This is dependant on what we learn and do with that knowledge (of God) before judgement. To be Just God must provide a way for those who have not learned of him in this life to to get a chance to learn of him and make a choice in the next life, before judgement.
Should a person come to accept (and live as best as they could) all that God has given them, then they should get a full reward, if some just choose to live it only partially by the time of judgement then they get a partial reward, if they choose to reject it completely then they don't get any gift God has for them.

Blackmarch said:

Other; parts of 1, 8, and 9

This one holds that there are 2 main parts to salvation; Salvation from physical death, to which every person who is born to this world will be partakers of. (which can be considered a universal salvation)

And 2) salvation from spiritual death or the seperation from God. This is dependant on what we learn and do with that knowledge (of God) before judgement. To be Just God must provide a way for those who have not learned of him in this life to to get a chance to learn of him and make a choice in the next life, before judgement.
Should a person come to accept (and live as best as they could) all that God has given them, then they should get a full reward, if some just choose to live it only partially by the time of judgement then they get a partial reward, if they choose to reject it completely then they don't get any gift God has for them.

Click to expand...

That looks very fair,but what about being inteligent enough to understand?
Or,how about the way a person was brought up,what trials had to go through,etc...that would all change persons ability to accpet God IMO.
Many more questions arise from this opinion.(you can pick more than one choices in tth poll)

Life after death is a human invention.

I am not open to the possiblity of a loving God that does not unconditionally give "salvation" to everyone.

Having said that, I voted option 4: Fertiliser.

b*unique said:

That looks very fair,but what about being inteligent enough to understand?

Click to expand...

Well to be honest one thinks, that very few will understand very much about God by the time we leave this life... Luckily we will have the opportunity to continue to learn (or start if we did not get the chance to really do so in this life), and much more so than we can now.

Or,how about the way a person was brought up,what trials had to go through,etc...that would all change persons ability to accpet God IMO.
Many more questions arise from this opinion.(you can pick more than one choices in tth poll)

Click to expand...

how person is raised up may or may not change his ability to accept the Gospel, however if a person should find the right path and stick to it in this life the more advantage he will have in the life to come. (however it usually seems that a person goes through a searching phase at some point or another during their life).
And one trusts God to be able to present it to the person in some way so that person would know that it is important to find out if it is what he should do or not. (whether in this life or in the next)

One also notes that in the next life there will not be death, war, disease, or such things that it usually takes to humble us.


All those are considerations which God will have to take into account, and why he will Judge.

Green Man said:

Life after death is a human invention.

Click to expand...

thanks for being brief

I picked "other" -- Universal salvation is a silly idea of men,and there IS afterlife. God knows what He is doing. I am not about to say there "should" be universal salvation or make any judgment at all on His plan.

blessings
tal

talitha said:

I picked "other" -- Universal salvation is a silly idea of men,and there IS afterlife. God knows what He is doing. I am not about to say there "should" be universal salvation or make any judgment at all on His plan.

blessings
tal

Click to expand...

that is option 3

If salvation is by grace alone, that would preclude human choice. Would not a person need to be saved from himself, from that within him that would cause him to reject god?

Universalism makes more sense in light of grace than the free-will nonsense, which is actually a form of pride and Phariseeism.

Option 3 reads:"I am Christian and believe there should not be universal salvation."

There are a couple of problems with this option.

First, it still makes a judgment about God's plan, even though it is sort of a positive judgment.

Second, it is clear from the phrasing here that the person who constructed this poll is judging my point of view; it's obvious that you think it's inhumane or immoral or something like that for me to accept the way God has provided for mankind's salvation.

Also, I believe that the Lord has provided a way for anyone to be saved -- to reject His plan is like a drowning man rejecting a life jacket because he doesn't think he looks good in orange. Stupid.

blessings
tal

talitha said:

Option 3 reads:"I am Christian and believe there should not be universal salvation."

There are a couple of problems with this option.

First, it still makes a judgment about God's plan, even though it is sort of a positive judgment.

Second, it is clear from the phrasing here that the person who constructed this poll is judging my point of view; it's obvious that you think it's inhumane or immoral or something like that for me to accept the way God has provided for mankind's salvation.

Also, I believe that the Lord has provided a way for anyone to be saved -- to reject His plan is like a drowning man rejecting a life jacket because he doesn't think he looks good in orange. Stupid.

blessings
tal

Click to expand...

wrong

I am not interested in debate,just would like to see what people think abut the subject

the poll is anonymous,and allows multiple choices

if you think there should not be US,than you are point 3,simple

I voted other. There is no life after death.

that is 4 ..no?

I am a Christian and i wish universal salvation was true but I feel a lot of the scripture supporting it is sometimes taken out of context.

b*unique said:

thanks for being brief

Click to expand...

No prob.

b*unique said:

Please stay on the topic if you can

If you simply want to say,that universal salvation is
just some silly idea of men,and there is no afterlife,
be brief please

If you have some scriptures handy,please post.

Thank you!



1:I believe that scripture supports universal salvation
2:I am Christian and wish there was universal salvation
3:I am Christian and believe there should not be universal salvation
4:I believe that all the people have the same destiny after the death.
5:I believe there will be purification for some,and then they will be saved.
6:I don't believe in preserving 'self'
7:Christian God would seem more logical if there was universal salvation.
8:No one will be tormented,but not all will get to heaven.
9:There is a chance to get saved after the death.
10:other,please explain

Click to expand...

Being saved is a matter of being spiritually alive or spiritually dead. This is where the confusion starts, since i guess religious people don't believe we as humans are spiritual beings at all. Actually, anything considered 'spiritual' is treated with great suspicion, since if were to be spiritual beings, we wouldn't be the sinning bags of flesh and bones the doctrine says we are.

Salvation is the realisation that indeed you are a spiritual being having a ride in a physical body. As long as you mistake your identity you will a life of delusion.. the bible calls it hell (the grave)...you're spiritually dead. Afdam died the day he ate from the tree of knowledge.. spiritually. He went on to live to the admirable age of 930.. physically. The story of adam and eve portrais the way we die spiritually. It happens to us all. We are all born as spiritual (tree of life) beings, and then go on to misidentify ourselves by thinking we're this thing made of flesh and blood, that our mind represents that which we are (tree of knowledge of G&E). As long as we eat the fruit from the tree of G&E, we'll be spiritually dead. Once we rediscover the tree of life (spirit), we will be 'saved' from (spiritual) death. Paul also knew this:

2 Corinthians 4:16 - For which cause we faint not; but though our outward man perish, yet the inward man is renewed day by day.

Outward man: the appearance; flesh and bones.. that which perishes (dies)

Inward man: Spirit; lives on forever; our true identity

Now when calvinists once again quote their favorite bible-quotes on how man is good for nothing whatsoever, they're describing the outward man. Indeed the flesh doesn't know much about spiritual matters, and just about everything it does, it does in ignorance. This is what we need to be saved from.

Jesus was one such enlightened being who realised that he was a spiritual being, one with God. he deemed us to be be his brothers, in a spiritual sense. even gods! Was he referring to what Paul calls the 'outward man'? I don't think so!

In short, one could say that to live a life in ignorance, from the flesh is a spiritually dead life (hell). To be spiritually alive (realized) is heaven.

God_of_Mercy said:

I am a Christian and i wish universal salvation was true but I feel a lot of the scripture supporting it is sometimes taken out of context.

Click to expand...

Do you disagree with God?