The Divine Presence on the Mount of Olives

Steve Petersen · Jun 4, 2005

Lamentations Rabbah, Prologue 25

Ten journeys were made by the Shechinah (Divine Presence): from cherub to cherub, from the cherub to the threshold of the house (Temple), from the threshold of the house to the cherubim, from the cherubim to the east gate, from the east gate to the Court, from the Court to the roof, from the roof to the altar, from the altar to the wall, from the wall to the city [of Jerusalem], and from the city to the Mount of Olives. From cherub to cherub; for it is written, And the glory of the Lord mounted up from the cherub (Ezek. X, 4). From the cherub to the threshold of the house; for it is written, And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon it was, to the threshold of the house (ib. IX, 3). From the threshold of the house to the cherubim; for it is written, And the glory of the Lord went forth from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubim (ib. X, 18). (The text should not have said 'went forth' but ' came'; but it says 'went forth', so what means 'went forth'? R. Aha said: The Shechinah may be likened to a king who left his palace in anger. After going out, he came back and embraced and kissed the walls of the palace and its pillars, weeping and exclaiming, `O the peace of my palace, O the peace of my royal residence, O the peace of my beloved house! O peace, from now onward let there be peace! ' Similarly when the Shechinah went forth from the Temple, it returned and embraced and kissed its walls and pillars, and wept and said, `O the peace of the Temple, O the peace of My royal residence, O the peace of My beloved house! O peace, from now onward let there be peace! `)
From the cherubim to the east gate; for it is written, And the cherubim lifted up their wings... and they stood at the door of the east gate (ib. 19). From the east gate to the Court; for it is written, And the court was full of the brightness of the Lord's glory (ib. 4). From the Court to the roof; for it is written, It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop (Prov. XXI, 9). From the roof to the altar; for it is written, I saw the Lord standing beside the altar (Amos IX, 1). From the altar to the wall; for it is written, Behold, the Lord stood beside a wall made by a plumbline (ib. VII, 7). (Another interpretation is: what means `anak (` plumbline')? It alludes to the Sanhedrin of seventy-one members. Whence is this derived? From the numerical value of the letters of 'anak. Then said the Lord, Behold I will set a plumbline (ib. 8): R. Judah b. R. Simon said, etc.2) From the wall to the city; for it is written, Hark! the Lord crieth unto the city (Micah VI, 9). From the city to the Mount of Olives; for it is written, And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city (Ezek. XI, 23).
R. Jonathan said: Three and a half years the Shechinah abode upon the Mount of Olives hoping that Israel would repent, but they did not; while a Bath Kol (voice from Heaven) issued announcing, 'Return, O backsliding children (Jer. III, 14), Return unto Me, and I will return unto you (Mal. III, 7).' When they did not repent, it said, 'I will go and return to My place (Hos. V, 15).'

chunkofcoal · Jun 4, 2005

That makes me think about Luke 5:17 "And it came to pass on a certain day, as He was teaching, that there were Pharisees and doctors of the law sitting by, which were come out of every town of Galilee, and Judea, and Jerusalem: and the power of the Lord was present to heal them."

Sephania · Jun 5, 2005

How do we know that the presence was there waiting 3 1/2 years? Where is the scriptural backup for this?

Steve Petersen · Jun 5, 2005

Zayit said:
How do we know that the presence was there waiting 3 1/2 years? Where is the scriptural backup for this?

No Scriptural reference. It is legend.

I find it interesting that Jesus wept over Jerusalem from the Mount of Olives. He spent a lot of time there. His whole ministry is thought to be 3 1/2 years.

ShirChadash · Jun 6, 2005

Steve Petersen said:
R. Jonathan said: Three and a half years the Shechinah abode upon the Mount of Olives hoping that Israel would repent, but they did not; while a Bath Kol (voice from Heaven) issued announcing, 'Return, O backsliding children (Jer. III, 14), Return unto Me, and I will return unto you (Mal. III, 7).' When they did not repent, it said, 'I will go and return to My place (Hos. V, 15).'

WOW!!!

Henaynei · Jun 6, 2005

moved to main MJ forum area

queenm04 · Jun 6, 2005

Steve Petersen said:
Lamentations Rabbah, Prologue 25

Ten journeys were made by the Shechinah (Divine Presence): from cherub to cherub, from the cherub to the threshold of the house (Temple), from the threshold of the house to the cherubim, from the cherubim to the east gate, from the east gate to the Court, from the Court to the roof, from the roof to the altar, from the altar to the wall, from the wall to the city [of Jerusalem], and from the city to the Mount of Olives. From cherub to cherub; for it is written, And the glory of the Lord mounted up from the cherub (Ezek. X, 4). From the cherub to the threshold of the house; for it is written, And the glory of the God of Israel was gone up from the cherub, whereupon it was, to the threshold of the house (ib. IX, 3). From the threshold of the house to the cherubim; for it is written, And the glory of the Lord went forth from off the threshold of the house, and stood over the cherubim (ib. X, 18). (The text should not have said 'went forth' but ' came'; but it says 'went forth', so what means 'went forth'? R. Aha said: The Shechinah may be likened to a king who left his palace in anger. After going out, he came back and embraced and kissed the walls of the palace and its pillars, weeping and exclaiming, `O the peace of my palace, O the peace of my royal residence, O the peace of my beloved house! O peace, from now onward let there be peace! ' Similarly when the Shechinah went forth from the Temple, it returned and embraced and kissed its walls and pillars, and wept and said, `O the peace of the Temple, O the peace of My royal residence, O the peace of My beloved house! O peace, from now onward let there be peace! `)
From the cherubim to the east gate; for it is written, And the cherubim lifted up their wings... and they stood at the door of the east gate (ib. 19). From the east gate to the Court; for it is written, And the court was full of the brightness of the Lord's glory (ib. 4). From the Court to the roof; for it is written, It is better to dwell in a corner of the housetop (Prov. XXI, 9). From the roof to the altar; for it is written, I saw the Lord standing beside the altar (Amos IX, 1). From the altar to the wall; for it is written, Behold, the Lord stood beside a wall made by a plumbline (ib. VII, 7). (Another interpretation is: what means `anak (` plumbline')? It alludes to the Sanhedrin of seventy-one members. Whence is this derived? From the numerical value of the letters of 'anak. Then said the Lord, Behold I will set a plumbline (ib. 8): R. Judah b. R. Simon said, etc.2) From the wall to the city; for it is written, Hark! the Lord crieth unto the city (Micah VI, 9). From the city to the Mount of Olives; for it is written, And the glory of the Lord went up from the midst of the city, and stood upon the mountain which is on the east side of the city (Ezek. XI, 23).
R. Jonathan said: Three and a half years the Shechinah abode upon the Mount of Olives hoping that Israel would repent, but they did not; while a Bath Kol (voice from Heaven) issued announcing, 'Return, O backsliding children (Jer. III, 14), Return unto Me, and I will return unto you (Mal. III, 7).' When they did not repent, it said, 'I will go and return to My place (Hos. V, 15).'

If we refer to the Mount of Olives as one of the geographical marks / maps of divine presence then we need to be take it from the beggining, @ the Garden of Eden. I believe its not only about the geography, but also about the symbolism of the Olive tree. It is believed that the Olive is one of the semi-sacramental plants, as wine (fruit) and bread (grain) made on the third day. And Yehudim are always said to have a vineyard, a field, and an oliveyard.

And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among themEx 25:8

I support the view that the Garden of Eden was the first Temple where Almighty dwelt among them, then followed Sinai, and the Tabernacle s Holy of Holies wherein the Ark of the covenant was put. The Ark of the Covenant in The Holy of Holies had Aarons Rod that budded olive branches, (Some beliv its symbol of Holy Spirit, Golden Pot of Manna, (Yeshua) and the Ten Words (The Almighty) = Trinity).

And an association was made about the Garden and the Temples Holy of Holies, that the words translated "tend and keep" in Genesis might better be rendered "worship and guard" - they're the same words used in Leviticus when the priests duties are laid out!

Firstly we see cherubims & flaming Sword in the Garden of Eden guarding the tree of Life; again we see the two large cherubims of Olive wood standing next to the Ark in the Holy of Holies. Would we also say there is a particular association with the Olive and guarding Gods Holiness?

Ps 52:8 "But as for me, I am a green olive tree in the house of God."

chunkofcoal · Jun 7, 2005

queenm04 said:
And let them make me a sanctuary; that I may dwell among themEx 25:8

I support the view that the Garden of Eden was the first Temple where Almighty dwelt among them, then followed Sinai, and the Tabernacle s Holy of Holies wherein the Ark of the covenant was put. The Ark of the Covenant in The Holy of Holies had Aarons Rod that budded olive branches, (Some beliv its symbol of Holy Spirit, Golden Pot of Manna, (Yeshua) and the Ten Words (The Almighty) = Trinity).

And an association was made about the Garden and the Temples Holy of Holies, that the words translated "tend and keep" in Genesis might better be rendered "worship and guard" - they're the same words used in Leviticus when the priests duties are laid out!

You forgot the tabernacle at Shiloh.

And when the Ark of the Covenant was put into the Holy of Holies, all it contained was the two tables -
"There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt." 1 Kings 8:9
"There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel." 2 Chronicles 5:10

I'm still trying to understand this one myself! There is something to be learned in this.
"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna" from Revelation 2:17

And Aaron's rod wasn't olives - it yielded almonds. Numbers 17:8
I think I need to go read up on the almond branch!

Hmmm - "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." Genesis 49:10

queenm04 · Jun 7, 2005

chunkofcoal said:
You forgot the tabernacle at Shiloh.

Amazing, i believe there is a direct link b/n the setting up of the tabernacle & their conquest (Divine presence). coz if u take it from the previous chapter u see an overview of their struggles with d canaanites & their conquest in the next chapter's 1st verse.

Jos 18:1
And the whole congregation of the children of Israel assembled together at Shiloh, and set up the tabernacle of the congregation there. And the land was subdued before them.

& MHCC's commentary on the verse is note worthy as well

v1 Shiloh was in the lot of Ephraim, the tribe to which Joshua belonged, and it was proper that the tabernacle should be near the residence of the chief governor. The name of this city is the same as that by which Jacob prophesied of the Messiah, Ge 49:10. It is supposed by some that the city was thus called, when it was chosen for the resting-place of the ark, which typified our great Peace-maker, and the way by him to a reconciled God.

chunkofcoal said:
And when the Ark of the Covenant was put into the Holy of Holies, all it contained was the two tables -
"There was nothing in the ark save the two tables of stone, which Moses put there at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel, when they came out of the land of Egypt." 1 Kings 8:9
"There was nothing in the ark save the two tables which Moses put therein at Horeb, when the LORD made a covenant with the children of Israel." 2 Chronicles 5:10

I guess the question here should be what happened to the rest???

Ex 25:16
And thou shalt put into the ark the testimony which I shall give thee.

Ex 16:32
And Moses said, This is the thing which the LORD commandeth, Fill an omer of it to be kept for your generations; that they may see the bread wherewith I have fed you in the wilderness, when I brought you forth from the land of Egypt.

Ex 16:33
And Moses said unto Aaron, Take a pot, and put an omer full of manna therein, and lay it up before the LORD, to be kept for your generations.

Ex 16:34
As the LORD commanded Moses, so Aaron laid it up before the Testimony, to be kept.

Nu 17:10
And the LORD said unto Moses, Bring Aaron's rod again before the testimony, to be kept for a token against the rebels; and thou shalt quite take away their murmurings from me, that they die not.

chunkofcoal said:
I'm still trying to understand this one myself! There is something to be learned in this.
"To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna" from Revelation 2:17

My colleague invited me to her church, they ar doing a seminar on Daniel and revelations, started attending from yesterday. Interesting lesson yesterday about the 7 churches and New Jerusalem: Promises and fulfilments. (i have requested the slides coz could not scribble quickly)but the preacher said the 7 churches represent stages of church growth & the promises that are made for the overcomers we see them fulfilld in the New Jerusallem. Then he gave example about the New name that will be given 2 d overcomer in the church of? & the name inscrbed on the overcomer's forehead in the new jerusalem as a fulfilment thereof. thought it was interesting. i believe they will delve in 2 church per church.

chunkofcoal said:
And Aaron's rod wasn't olives - it yielded almonds. Numbers 17:8
I think I need to go read up on the almond branch!

Thanx, mixmeshed it with verses in IKings, MY APOLOGIES!

IKi 6:31
And for the entering of the oracle he made doors of olive tree: the lintel and side posts were a fifth part of the wall.

1Ki 6:32
The two doors also were of olive tree; and he carved upon them carvings of cherubims and palm trees and open flowers, and overlaid them with gold, and spread gold upon the cherubims, and upon the palm trees.

1Ki 6:33
So also made he for the door of the temple posts of olive tree, a fourth part of the wall.

chunkofcoal said:
Hmmm - "The sceptre shall not depart from Judah, nor a lawgiver from between his feet, until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be." Genesis 49:10

MHCC's commentary is interesting,

"It is supposed by some that the city was thus called, when it was chosen for the resting-place of the ark, which typified our great Peace-maker, and the way by him to a reconciled God"

and

suppose it is so, & we also c the ark of the testimony in Revelations, and with Y'eshua being the Torah, (sorry can come out uncooked!!!)

Makes me want to look closely at until Shiloh come; and unto him shall the gathering of the people be, was it d 1st coming or d second coming?will look into this. Am not able 2 put this into words yet,

Re 11:19
And the temple of God was opened in heaven, and there was seen in his temple the ark of his testament: and there were lightnings, and voices, and thunderings, and an earthquake, and great hail.

visionary · Jun 7, 2005

until shiloh come....

In Genesis 49:10, Jacob is blessing his 12 sons. This blessing was also a prophecy. Jacob told his son Judah that his descendants will be rulers and that one of his descendants will be an ultimate ruler. According to the NIV translation: "The scepter will not depart from Judah, nor the ruler's staff from between his feet, until he comes to whom it belongs and the obedience of the nations is his."

The meaning of "Shiloh" is "the Peacemaker," or "the Prince of Peace." This is what Yeshua is called in Isaiah 9:6. It was no accident that it was given while Israel's hand rested upon Judah. Yeshua came from the tribe of Judah!

Shiloh means "the one who brings", or "until he comes to which it belongs" and is a word commonly attributed as a name for the Messiah. Ezekiel 21:27 uses the same phrase when addressing Zedekiah (the last king of Judah) stating that Israel would not have a king again until Messiah came. The "scepter" represents the authority and right to rule (see Numbers 24:17, Esther 4:11, Isaiah 14:5, and Hebrews 1:8).

Just fleshing out some thoughts......

queenm04 · Jun 8, 2005

I believe there is also a relation b/n Y'shua and the Ark of the Covenant as per Jos 1:18,

Visionary keep on fleshing dem thoughts out per adventure Ruach HaKodesh may expand this further

queenm04 · Jun 26, 2005

Steve Petersen said:
R. Jonathan said: Three and a half years the Shechinah abode upon the Mount of Olives hoping that Israel would repent, but they did not; while a Bath Kol (voice from Heaven) issued announcing, 'Return, O backsliding children (Jer. III, 14), Return unto Me, and I will return unto you (Mal. III, 7).' When they did not repent, it said, 'I will go and return to My place (Hos. V, 15).'

This is interesting! any insights on the foreshadowing?

Steve Petersen · Jul 5, 2005

queenm04 said:
This is interesting! any insights on the foreshadowing?

Jesus spent three and a half years preaching repentance. He ascended to Heaven from the Mount of Olives (to His place.) Forty years later, Rome destroyed the city of Jerusalem.

The Divine Presence on the Mount of Olives

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