The Pledge of Allegiance

Green Man said:

Apparently,you didn't bother to try to understand what you cut and pasted from my reply.Especially the part about not dissecting the Pledge.I don't care if other people believe in the under God part.The vast majority of people on Earth believe in a supreme diety of some sort.That is a fact of life that we can't avoid.The under God part is something I have no trouble overlooking when I recite the Pledge,since I see the whole thing as an affirmation of my pride as an American.It would seem to me that you're just as guilty as some believers thinking anyone that doesn't agree with you is wrong.Do you get this upset when people tell their children about Santa Claus?

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So when you make the pledge you don't subscribe to everything it states, but you say it anyway?
Isn't that dishonest or at the very least a little insincere?
Does this behavior extend to other areas of your life? For instance I see you're 48. You're probably married or have been married. When you gave your marriage vows or pledged your loyalty and devotion to your wife... was she aware at the time that you aren't always sincere about the words you repeat in pledges? Point of this is some people have too much integrity to make a pledge they don't mean. This obviously isn't a problem for you. Goody for you.

Randall McNally said:

The word "apatheist" is sometimes used to describe the individual who "does not care," as you put it.

As far as I am concerned, the atheist must have an identifiable lack of belief in any gods.

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Interesting, how often is it used? (My first time hearing that term)

levi501 said:

So when you make the pledge you don't subscribe to everything it states, but you say it anyway?
Isn't that dishonest or at the very least a little insincere?
Does this behavior extend to other areas of your life? For instance I see you're 48. You're probably married or have been married. When you gave your marriage vows or pledged your loyalty and devotion to your wife... was she aware at the time that you aren't always sincere about the words you repeat in pledges? Point of this is some people have too much integrity to make a pledge they don't mean. This obviously isn't a problem for you. Goody for you.

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Apparently,some people seem incapable of pledging allegiance and loyalty to anything without dissecting everyword in order to make sure it's politically correct and not offensive to their delicate sensibilities.Too many people these days are so caught up in not wanting to offend anybody they're willing to sacrifice their own ideals to keep everyone happy.Like I said,I have no problem overlooking those two words as they do not diminish the meaning and spirit in which they were written.The vast majority of people subscribe to one religion or another and that is a fact of life you can't avoid.Now you can choose to wage a fight against it you can't hope to win,or you can learn to accept it and deal with it accordingly.Myself,I don't care to tilt at windmills.

BTW,how very adult of some of you people to turn it into a personal attack simply because you don't agree with the way I view this particular subject.It's the same tired old behavior,if you can't mount an intelligent rebuttal,then turn it into a personal attack.

It seems quite odd to me to hear an atheist pledge their allegiance to anything "under god". I also can't imagine a Christian gladly pledging allegiance "under Pan, Greek god of the Shepherds"...

thats a good point....i think you should pledge to pay respect for your country but i guess if its that big of a deal to say "under god" and it really "offends" you or whatever then dont say it, but atleast pay respect to those who have shed their blood so we can live freely...

morningstar2651 said:

It seems quite odd to me to hear an atheist pledge their allegiance to anything "under god". I also can't imagine a Christian gladly pledging allegiance "under Pan, Greek god of the Shepherds"...

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that's why they use the word God, not jehovah, yhwh, pan, bacchus, zeus, or etc...

Our Sacred Honor said:

thats a good point....i think you should pledge to pay respect for your country but i guess if its that big of a deal to say "under god" and it really "offends" you or whatever then dont say it, but atleast pay respect to those who have shed their blood so we can live freely...

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At least somebody here gets it.

I know I'm late in the argument....but here are my two cents:

If someone has a problem saying the "under God" part (or their kid saying that part), then recite the pledge, be silent for that part, and then continue reciting.

Cheers

Why don't we just return to the Pledge as it was originally written? The words "under God were not the only change to the pledge. The original pledge was "I pledge allegence to my flag and to the republic for which it stands, one nation, indivisible, with liberty and justice for all."

Green Man said:

Apparently,some people seem incapable of pledging allegiance and loyalty to anything without dissecting everyword in order to make sure it's politically correct and not offensive to their delicate sensibilities.Too many people these days are so caught up in not wanting to offend anybody they're willing to sacrifice their own ideals to keep everyone happy.Like I said,I have no problem overlooking those two words as they do not diminish the meaning and spirit in which they were written.The vast majority of people subscribe to one religion or another and that is a fact of life you can't avoid.Now you can choose to wage a fight against it you can't hope to win,or you can learn to accept it and deal with it accordingly.Myself,I don't care to tilt at windmills.

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Are you sure you're not just me in disguise?

Green Man said:

At least somebody here gets it.

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I don't think it's a matter of the rest of us not getting it. We were responding to your statement that you, as an atheist, say the 'under god' part. We could pretty much figure out the not saying it part by ourselves.

IMHO, one of the problems with the pledge is that it is said/used way too much. It loses much of it's impact when it is said everytime you turn around. Simply saying some words because every one around you is doesn't mean that you believe in them or that you are more of a patriot than someone who chooses not to say them.

If that is not the case for you great, but in my observations it is that way for many of the people in this country.

MuAndNu said:

Are you sure you're not just me in disguise?

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I was still me the last time I checked.Let me check again......yep,still me.

I don't think it's a matter of the rest of us not getting it. We were responding to your statement that you, as an atheist, say the 'under god' part. We could pretty much figure out the not saying it part by ourselves.

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Like I said,I really have no problem with it.Why should I get all bent out of shape over saying a couple of words when I'm more than happy to accept the Pledge as a whole?Those two words are just a bump in the road,so to speak.Nothing to really get all worked up about.Too many people say it by rote without thinking about what it means and some people simply don't care.

Green Man said:

Like I said,I really have no problem with it.Why should I get all bent out of shape over saying a couple of words when I'm more than happy to accept the Pledge as a whole?Those two words are just a bump in the road,so to speak.Nothing to really get all worked up about.Too many people say it by rote without thinking about what it means and some people simply don't care.

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I'm getting some seriously mixed messages here. In the same thought, you say that the words "under God" are a "bump in the road," while at the same time lamenting that "too many people say it by rote without thinking about what it means."

So I'm confused. If I think about what it means, I invariably recall the history of "under God" and how the nation's elected representation thought so little of atheists that they changed the pledge to reflect their fear and ignorance.

What am I doing wrong?

Randall McNally said:

What am I doing wrong?

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nothing. his view is inconsistent and contradicting.

Green Man said:

I was still me the last time I checked.Let me check again......yep,still me.

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Yeah, I think I would've noticed, too. Sure sound like me, though.

I am a strong supporter of secularism; I think that Under God should be removed from the pledge, why is it neccessary?

i agree with the OP: return the pledge to it's ORIGINAL form- without the meaningless "under god" statement in it...

How many of us used to say, "invisible" in grade school? First, get the god reference out; second require students to be able to rewrite the pledge in their own words so it's certain they understand the meaning before being allowed to spout it off.

BeamMeUpScotty said:

How many of us used to say, "invisible" in grade school? First, get the god reference out; second require students to be able to rewrite the pledge in their own words so it's certain they understand the meaning before being allowed to spout it off.

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Of course this falls in the same category as a study of New York City children a number of years ago. When asked to recite the Lord's Prayer, they said "and lead us not into Penn Station."

Having changed trains at Penn Station, I can understand why they might have said this.