The 7 churches

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GreenEyedLady

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I would like everyones opinion of the 7 Churchs mentioned in Revelation.
What is the purpose of the scriptures?
Are they the churchs of today?
Are they churchs though out the era's of history?
Is it to teach us about which church is the synagoge of Satan and which is not?

Revelation 2:1  ¶Unto the angel of the church of Ephesus write; These things saith he that holdeth the seven stars in his right hand, who walketh in the midst of the seven golden candlesticks;
2  I know thy works, and thy labour, and thy patience, and how thou canst not bear them which are evil: and thou hast tried them which say they are apostles, and are not, and hast found them liars:
3  And hast borne, and hast patience, and for my name's sake hast laboured, and hast not fainted.
4  Nevertheless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love.
5  Remember therefore from whence thou art fallen, and repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
6  But this thou hast, that thou hatest the deeds of the Nicolaitans, which I also hate.
7  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the tree of life, which is in the midst of the paradise of God.
8  ¶And unto the angel of the church in Smyrna write; These things saith the first and the last, which was dead, and is alive;
9  I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty, (but thou art rich) and I know the blasphemy of them which say they are Jews, and are not, but are the synagogue of Satan.
10  Fear none of those things which thou shalt suffer: behold, the devil shall cast some of you into prison, that ye may be tried; and ye shall have tribulation ten days: be thou faithful unto death, and I will give thee a crown of life.
11  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; He that overcometh shall not be hurt of the second death.
Revelation 2:12  ¶And to the angel of the church in Pergamos write; These things saith he which hath the sharp sword with two edges;
13  I know thy works, and where thou dwellest, even where Satan's seat is: and thou holdest fast my name, and hast not denied my faith, even in those days wherein Antipas was my faithful martyr, who was slain among you, where Satan dwelleth.
14  But I have a few things against thee, because thou hast there them that hold the doctrine of Balaam, who taught Balac to cast a stumblingblock before the children of Israel, to eat things sacrificed unto idols, and to commit fornication.
15  So hast thou also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitans, which thing I hate.
16  Repent; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will fight against them with the sword of my mouth.
Revelation 2:17  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.
18  ¶And unto the angel of the church in Thyatira write; These things saith the Son of God, who hath his eyes like unto a flame of fire, and his feet are like fine brass;
19  I know thy works, and charity, and service, and faith, and thy patience, and thy works; and the last to be more than the first.
20  Notwithstanding I have a few things against thee, because thou sufferest that woman Jezebel, which calleth herself a prophetess, to teach and to seduce my servants to commit fornication, and to eat things sacrificed unto idols.
21  And I gave her space to repent of her fornication; and she repented not.
22  Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
Revelation 2:22  Behold, I will cast her into a bed, and them that commit adultery with her into great tribulation, except they repent of their deeds.
23  And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24  But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25  But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26  And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
Revelation 2:23  And I will kill her children with death; and all the churches shall know that I am he which searcheth the reins and hearts: and I will give unto every one of you according to your works.
24  But unto you I say, and unto the rest in Thyatira, as many as have not this doctrine, and which have not known the depths of Satan, as they speak; I will put upon you none other burden.
25  But that which ye have already hold fast till I come.
26  And he that overcometh, and keepeth my works unto the end, to him will I give power over the nations:
27  And he shall rule them with a rod of iron; as the vessels of a potter shall they be broken to shivers: even as I received of my Father.
28  And I will give him the morning star.
29  He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches.

Read on into chapter 3.
GEL
 

Thunderz7

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I believe everything you spoke of is covered by these scriptures. Scripture having literal, spiritual, historical and other applications. Who are we to limit almighth God? I've heard many who study the history of the Christian church, point to the historical aspect. I see the different churches of Rev. in our denominations and movements today. I also see the Rev. churches in myself, and other Christians. YHWH is speaking, are we listening?

SHALOM
 
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JohnR7

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>>I would like everyones opinion of the 7 Churchs mentioned in Revelation.

If you were to go to theology school, there are two different interpertations. I think they are both right. One is that the 7 churches represent 7 time periods in the 2000 year church age or the age of grace that we currently are living in. The other interpertation is that there are 7 different churches, and all churchs today will be one of those 7 churches.

The Church I live next door to keeps joining different churches together to form one church out of them. In 1647 the Puritans and Piligrams joined and became the Congressional Church. In 1957 the Congressional Church joined with the Christian Church, The Reformed Church, and the Evangelical Church to become the United Church of Christ. They now consider themselves a Reformed, Evangelical, Congressional Christian Church.

I believe they came to realize that they all had the same light. Or as Rev. calls it, the same Golden Candlestick. But I am sure not all churchs represent God. Rev. makes it clear that there are churchs that God has removed their witness and their testimony. They are no longer a light shinning into darkness.

Rev. 2:5b repent, and do the first works; or else I will come unto thee quickly, and will remove thy candlestick out of his place, except thou repent.
 
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GreenEyedLady

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The reason why I am bring this up is that because it is written in Gods word...I believe that we are suppose to "weed" out those churchs that match the catagory listed in REV. Is that the intent of this scripture?
We are not really judgeing peoples souls here, we are judging the doctrines. Is this right??
GEL
 
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Blackhawk

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I think that they are real churches from that time period with real problems. I think all were in present day Turkey. Also i think that they are examples of different problems churches today ahve and also indivduals. As far as the ages I do not know. But I could see that it could be true.

blackhawk
 
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GreenEyedLady

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But the reason for these scriptures in the bible are for us to determine which ones are "right with God" and which ones are not.
This is how I see it. Therefore I guess my question is because of these verses Do we as children of God have the right to judge theses churchs by the verses provided by GOD??
 
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Blackhawk

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"Therefore I guess my question is because of these verses Do we as children of God have the right to judge theses churchs by the verses provided by GOD?"

Sure as long as you judge fairly and in a Christ like manner. Also remmeber that these churches were churches they just had problems.

blackhawk
 
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BigEd

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I think these arewarnings to churches and also warning to individual christians. I feel these are "wake up" call to churches and people to get right with him. I don't think its a matter of weeding out churchs , but instead The Lord loving correction to get them back on the right path, and showing them the consquences if they don't.
 
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parousia70

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The 7 Churches were real Churches in Johns Time with real, air breathing, blood pumping Christians to whom John was urgently writing, so as to warn of things that would happen specifically to them shortly after he sent the letters.

That would be the literal interpratation anyway, of who the 7 Churches in Revelation were and why John wrote to them.

Many today however, choose to spiritualize and allegorize them, but I believe the literal interpration is the correct one.

P70
 
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Blackhawk

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Biged,

Good point. I am not for weeding out churches. Except in a few cases when the teaching is so bad that I would be in favor of getting rid of them. But then again I am a baptist so with my ecclesiology I would say no completely.

blackhawk
 
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Hi,

The word judge here, that keeps coming up, makes me a little leery.

What is the purpose? What is the motive?

Do we have the wisdom to do this?

Jesus talked an awful lot about NOT judging...

I think these seven churches represent problems that can occur in ANY church, or ANY human heart...and it think it is more important to examine and "judge" ourselves...rather than others.

Blessings,
:)
 
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Well, from my understanding, these are historical churches (I visited three of them a few years ago), and they are arch-types (both as congregations and as individuals). The letter is a warning to us to judge our hearts. Have we left our first Love? Are we lukewarm? Are we seeking after worldly riches and not spiritual riches? These are the things that we need to ask ourselves so that we don't fall into one of these traps.

Now, I would be careful here. Don't judge these churches. Don't judge your church. Judge yourself and your heart. Remember, we should only judge ourselves. Prayerful searching after God's heart is important when reading and interpreting scriptures. Ask that the Holy Spirit would guide and guard your heart when you do so.
 
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Blackhawk

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"Now, I would be careful here. Don't judge these churches. Don't judge your church. Judge yourself and your heart. Remember, we should only judge ourselves."

I disagree. It is our duty to judge the Church. The Bible is very clear to bewre of false prophets. we are suppossed to look at what they say and see if it lines up with scripture. we are not to judge unfairly though. but if my church has lost its first love then I would say something. i think that it is my job as a member of a church to help make sure that the church does not go away from God. I think the bible is full of men and women of God judging but doing it in a just and fair. Look at Elijah, Isaiah, Jeremiah, john the Baptist, Paul, John, Peter, etc.

blackhawk
 
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JohnR7

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Originally posted by GreenEyedLady
But the reason for these scriptures in the bible are for us to determine which ones are "right with God" and which ones are not. 

The Bible is written so we can yeild to God, to allow Him to purify our heart. There can be problems if we use our Bible to try to judge others.

Perhaps a good commentary could help, but I could explain a little bit about the first church: Ephesus. These are a people we are told, who have left there first love. Something has become more important to them than Jesus. We are not told exactly what has taken the place of Jesus in their life. But that is so we will examine our heart to be sure that we put Jesus first and love Him more than anything or anyone else.

We are told that if they do not repent, God will remove their lamp stand. That means that God will not use them as a witness and a testimony for Him. They may try to talk about God, they may try to serve God or try to tell people about God. But they will be on their own, and God will not be a part of it. If God removes a churchs lampstand, they do not represent God any longer in any way. That does not mean they would lose their salvation, just because God can not use them. They would of course lose their reward. But salvation is not based on our work for God.

Then we are told that "him who overcomes I will give to eat from the tree of life, which is in the midst of the Paradise of God." Eternal life is for those who are overcomes. They have overcome the world, the flesh and the devil. They have overcome sin and found their life in Jesus. Again, Jesus does not say exactly what they have to overcome. But each individual needs to learn how to depend on God, so they can live a life of victory.  


 


 
 
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I believe the churches do represent specific ages of the church throughout it's history and the angels who govern them, as each letter was written to the "angel of the church of..."

They obviously were written with specific churches in Turkey as well, as these were all regions in Turkey at the time the book of Revelation was written.  But their ministry is two-fold, speaking to those people then, and speaking of what would happen after them (Rev. 1:19), that which John had seen before, the things which were then, and the things which would take place after that.

If you read the letter to the angel of the church of Philidelphia (Rev. 3:7-12), you will notice that Christ promised them that He would keep them from the hour of trial which would come upon the whole world, to test those who dwell on earth.

Thus, I conclude that we live in the age of the Laodicean church.  It is not difficult to imagine this is true if you look at the sin and degredation in the world today - this is a time when people are lukewarm in their zeal toward the Lord, neither hot nor cold, as He would wish.  Jesus warns that He will vomit us out of His mouth because we assume that we are "rich, have become wealthy, and have need of nothing" when we are really "wretched, miserable, poor, blind, and naked."

He counsels us to buy from Him gold REFINED IN THE FIRE (suffering in the fiery trial He said would test us) so that we may be rich, and white garments that we may be clothed so that our shame will not be revealed, and that we anoint our eyes with eye salve (I believe "eye salve" refers to the power of the Spirit) so that we may see.  As many as He loves, He rebukes and chastens, therefore we are to be zealous and repent.  He stands at the door of our hearts and knocks, and if we individually open the door to Him, He will dine with us and make His home with us in our hearts.

The bad thing about being in this church is the fiery trial and tribulation we must endure, but the blessing is better than any other church could expect. If we make it out of this tribulation with our faith in tact, overcoming the wicked one, He says we will actually SIT WITH HIM ON HIS THRONE, just as He overcame and sat down with His Father on His throne.  Imagine actually sitting upon the throne of God with Him.  Our patience and faith will be rewarded more than any other church age in history, even more than the faithful church of Philidelphia whose door He opened and set before them which no one could shut.

This is my take on the 7 churches thing.  Anybody else?
 
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REV 2:1-8

CHURCH OF EPHESUS

REV 2:4 Neverless I have somewhat against thee, because thou hast left thy first love

REV 2:8-11

CHURCH OF SMYRNA

vs 9 Under persecution by them which say they are Jews, and are not, but a synagogue of Satan

vs 9 I know thy works, and tribulation, and poverty[lack of money] , but thou art rich [in the Lord]

REV 2:12-17

CHURCH OF PERGAMOS

VS 12 two faced
vs 13 even where Satan seat is
vs 13 kill a saint
vs 14 taught ok to mix with world ........Num 31:15-16,22:5,23:8

REV 2:18-29

CHURCH OF THYATIRA

vs 20 has a female giving new revelation to teach them to commit fornication and to eat things sacrificed unto idols


REV 3:1-6

CHURCH OF SARDIS

VS 1 Famous Church that is dead spiritually
vs 2 working to heaven and not perfect before god


REV 3:6-13

CHURCH OF PHILADELPHIA

vs 8 little church and hast kept my word



REV 3:14

CHURCH OF LAODICEANS

vs 15 lukewarm church
vs 17 rich in material wealth but are desolate poor spiritually





1cor 12:12 for as the body is one and hath many members
then in Rev talk about 7 churches
Just show me on How this Dispensation is a failure
 
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