"Holy Spirit" questions that deserve an answer

2002 Christian · May 4, 2002

Here are several questions. :help:

1) Luke 1.35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

Why isn't the baby to be born called "the Son of the Holy Spirit?" If the Holy Spirit is a distinct Person from the Father, wouldn't the baby be the son of the "third Person of the Godhead"?

2) Philippians 1.19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

Galatians 4.6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Is this "Spirit of his Son" really Jesus' own spirit or is it a "third Person of the Godhead"?

3) Luke 11.20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Matthew 12.28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Why is "the Spirit of God" called "the finger of God" in this parallel account? Is "the finger of God" the same as "God"?

4) 2 John 3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Fifteen out of the twenty-seven books of the New Testament start out with a greeting similar to this one. Why is the Person of the Father and the Person of the Son mentioned, but not the "third Person of the Godhead"?

2002 Christian · May 4, 2002

Some more questions.

5) Matthew 10.20 For it is not ye that speak, but the Spirit of your Father which speaketh in you.

Is this a "third Person of the Godhead" or another Person's Spirit that speaks?

6a) 1 John 1.3 That which we have seen and heard declare we unto you, that ye also may have fellowship with us: and truly our fellowship is with the Father, and with his Son Jesus Christ.

Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

6b) 2 John 9 Whosoever transgresseth, and abideth not in the doctrine of Christ, hath not God. He that abideth in the doctrine of Christ, he hath both the Father and the Son.

Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

6c) John 8,17-18 It is also written in your law, that the testimony of two men is true. I am one that bear witness of myself, and the Father that sent me beareth witness of me.

Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

6d) 1 Timothy 5.21 I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels.

Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

6e) Romans 15.6 That ye may with one mind and one mouth glorify God, even the Father of our Lord Jesus Christ.

Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

6f) 1 Corinthians 8.6 But to us there is but one God, the Father, of whom are all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom are all things, and we by him.

Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

6g) Daniel 7.13 I saw in the night visions, and, behold, one like the Son of man came with the clouds of heaven, and came to the Ancient of days, and they brought him near before him.

Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

7) 1 Corinthians 2.11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.

If "the Spirit of God" is a distict Person separate from the Person "God," wouldn't "the spirit of man" be a distinct person separate from "man," since it says "EVEN SO" in the text?

8) Zechariah 6:12-13 And speak unto him, saying, Thus speaketh the LORD of hosts, saying, Behold the man whose name is The BRANCH; and he shall grow up out of his place, and he shall build the temple of the LORD: Even he shall build the temple of the LORD; and he shall bear the glory, and shall sit and rule upon his throne; and he shall be a priest upon his throne: and the counsel of peace shall be between them both.

BOTH means two. Assuming that "the BRANCH" is Jesus and "the LORD" is Jesus' Father, why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

If you have an answer for any of the questions, please address them by number. :scratch:

JohnR7 · May 4, 2002

"Son of God" means to reflect the image and the likeness of God. For example, His gentleness, kindness and so forth. Adam was a son of God before the fall, but then he took on the nature of the devil. When we are born again, we once again become sons of God. Even though we are born again of the Blood and the Holy Spirit, we are called sons of God.

>>Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

In general lot of the Bible is given to us by inspiration of the Holy Spirit and the Holy Spirit does not ever draw attention to Himself. He always draws attention to Jesus or the Father. Even we are always to honor and glorify the father and NEVER try to honor self.

What you need is to be born again of the Holy Spirit and then the Holy Spirit can show you these things. If you have questions about Him, then why do you not ask Him? To have the Holy Spirit is what makes you a child of God. If you do not have the Holy Spirit, your not saved. Thanks, JohnR7

2002 Christian · May 4, 2002

"What you need is to be born again of the Holy Spirit and then the Holy Spirit can show you these things. If you have questions about Him, then why do you not ask Him?"

I have been born again. I have been led by the Spirit of God.

There is no verse that says to pray or talk to the "Holy Spirit." Jesus told us to pray to His Father. If we are praying to a non-Person, that would be idolatry, would it not?

For any that will post hereafter - please restrict your comments to the scriptures in question. Thanks.

pcmixoye · May 4, 2002

Perhaps you are trying to under stand the Godhead in human terms. God himself said he was no man. The Holy Spirit is fully God the Father is fully God Jesus is fully God but lived on earth as a man. God can be difficult to comprehend. Thats why I am glad I don't have to go it alone. all these passages are trying to do is break down the workings and movement of God so our finite minds can get a glimpse. John 15:35 states that the comforter,another name for the Holy Spirit, will not speak of himself but will testify of Jesus. The Holy Spirit never draws attention to himself. but points to the Father and Jesus, if we know of the Holy Spirit it is through Jesus. This is probably as clear as mud but remember "we see through a glass darkly,but then face to face now I know in part but then shall I know even as also I am known." I Cor. 13:12 I can't wait to see Jesus!
God bless Pete

2002 Christian · May 4, 2002

I used to use the following KJV verse to take the same stand as both of you have. However, it is an incorrect translation.

John 16
13 Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come.

The NASB says the Spirit "will not speak on His own initiative"
The NLT - "will not be presenting his own ideas"
The RSV - "will not speak on his own authority"

You two have attempted to answer my questions by saying, in part, "the Holy Spirit does not ever draw attention to Himself" (JohnR7) or does "not speak of himself" (pcmixoye). How is it that you guys have agreed to a doctrine that the Spirit is part of a Trinity, if "He" (the Spirit) hasn't said so? Who told you? What is your authority for such a belief? If you know so much about the "Third Person of the Godhead" from the inspired scriptures, why can't the inspired scriptures be used to answer my questions?

Some of the previously posted scriptures are direct quotes from an angel, Jesus, or the LORD, not something that was written by man as a result of inspiration by the Spirit of God.

Again, the questions I have raised are fair. If Trinitarians cannot answer them, it casts doubt on their pet belief.

Pastor N.B. · May 4, 2002

Originally posted by 2002 Christian
Here are several questions. help: (added click-a-smile by P/N/B)

****Pastor N.B. here:
I will give my 'humble' opinion of your questions appearing after my name.
--------------------
1) Luke 1.35 And the angel answered and said unto her, The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.

****Pastor N.B here: There are [two] mentioned in Gen. One was called the 'son of man' & the other the 'son of God'.
They were Cain & Seth. One followed the Covenant plan, & the other was given over to his [desired] new 'm'aster. (Gen. 4:7) But the Master (Christ) was God [and] man! Not just called Son of God!-Yet, this PLAN is everlasting & would be 'brought forth' when history required it. Try Rom. 4:17's last part. Christ was not omnipresent in the old testament.
-----------

Why isn't the baby to be born called "the Son of the Holy Spirit?" If the Holy Spirit is a distinct Person from the Father, wouldn't the baby be the son of the "third Person of the Godhead"?

****Pastor N.B. here: There are [three] in the Universe who [are equal]. "Let US make man in our image.." (Two with a, 'our image') Then, let "Us go down and, there confound their language..." (Again, 'US') When Moses went into the mountain, he was told that he could not look upon My (His) [face] and live! But that He would pass by, and that He would put His [HAND], over His FACE, and that moses could look on His [HIND PARTS]. (context of two having an image!) You need to look this up for exact reading, ok? (memory is getting old!

Now: Two ARE GOD! But the Word of God says that [GOD] IS A SPIRIT? [[AND]] also it states, HOLY GHOST and Holy Spirit. What does simple math say? 'Three' seperate [BEINGS]. Two with images and one in spirit only. All UNITED in Truth!
----------------
2) Philippians 1.19 For I know that this shall turn to my salvation through your prayer, and the supply of the Spirit of Jesus Christ.

****Pastor N.B. here: The Holy Spirit is omnipresent. (everywhere that He can be! He can also be quenched & Grieved away! see Gen. 6:3) He does the work of the Master. try Rom. 8:26-28 .. conditional.
-----------------

Galatians 4.6 And because ye are sons, God hath sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father.

Is this "Spirit of his Son" really Jesus' own spirit or is it a "third Person of the Godhead"?

***Pastor N.B. here: The Three are ONE IN SPIRIT! try John 3:3-10, and no one is 'born again' without the Holy Ghost see Acts 5:32. It takes [TOTAL SURENDER] to receive Christ. Then you can 'see' the results in 2 Cor. 3:3! r-e-a-d s-l-o-l-w-l-y!
-------------------

3) Luke 11.20 But if I with the finger of God cast out devils, no doubt the kingdom of God is come upon you.

Matthew 12.28 But if I cast out devils by the Spirit of God, then the kingdom of God is come unto you.

Why is "the Spirit of God" called "the finger of God" in this parallel account? Is "the finger of God" the same as "God"?

4) 2 John 3 Grace be with you, mercy, and peace, from God the Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ, the Son of the Father, in truth and love.

Fifteen out of the twenty-seven books of the New Testament start out with a greeting similar to this one. Why is the Person of the Father and the Person of the Son mentioned, but not the "third Person of the Godhead"?

*****Pastor N.B. here: Who was it that moved upon the waters at creation? Yet, it was the Master Himself that said that the 'Spirit' of Truth, when He shall come, whom I send unto you. He will guide you into all Truth, (try Rom. 8:14) [He will not speak of Himself] but will [testify of me]." (again memory?

?, try John 15 perhaps)

King Saul was given the Holy Ghost (Spirit) and He was latter grieved away!

Hope that this helps? Take care, in the Master's quickly finished work for the House of God 'first' 1 Peter 4:17
Pastor N.B.

2002 Christian · May 4, 2002

N.B., as I was writing this post, you responded above. I edit this message to tell you so. I was not ignoring your comments. But at quick glance, I must say it is difficult to follow your formatting and writing style.

_._._._._.

Do all Persons of the "Godhead" have a throne?
In the Bible, I read of two thrones.
Is there a throne for "third Person of the Godhead"?

Whom do the beings in heaven worship?

"The four and twenty elders fall down before him that sat on the throne, and worship him that liveth for ever and ever, and cast their crowns before the throne, saying, Thou art worthy, O Lord, to receive glory and honour and power: for thou hast created all things, and for thy pleasure they are and were created." (Revelation 4:10-11)

"After this I beheld, and, lo, a great multitude, which no man could number, of all nations, and kindreds, and people, and tongues, stood before the throne, and before the Lamb, clothed with white robes, and palms in their hands; And cried with a loud voice, saying, Salvation to our God which sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb. (Revelation 7:9-10)

And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever. (Revelation 5:13)

Paul declared, I charge thee before God, and the Lord Jesus Christ, and the elect angels. (1 Timothy 5:21) Paul called the heavenly agencies to witness this charge given to Timothy. Notice who Paul called as a witness for him. God the Father and the Lord Jesus Christ are naturally the first ones to be mentioned, but Paul did not stop here. He called all the angels of God to be his witnesses also. Certainly if Paul knew of a third being who is coequal with the Father and His Son, then he would have mentioned him in this verse. Yet there is no hint of another being, which is plain evidence that Paul knew nothing about a "third person of the godhead."

Thinker · May 4, 2002

I can throw in a historical note here, for whatever its worth.

Mark 1:10-12 `And straightaway, coming out of the water, he saw the heavens opened, and the spirit like a dove descending upon him: and there came a voice from heaven, saying, Thou art my sin in whom I am well pleased. And immediately the spirit driveth him out into the wilderness.'

This whole episode has common elements with magical rituals that had been practiced in that region for centuries. Obtaining a `spirit' to do ones bidding was a major goal for many magicians, jewish and pagan alike. The chief difference is that in these other instances, the summoned spirit was a ally or servant, not the agency of a all powerfull God.

JohnR7 · May 4, 2002

>>There is no verse that says to pray or talk to the "Holy Spirit."

We do not pray or talk so much as yield to the Holy Spirit. He is our instructer, our guide, our teachers, our helper and so forth.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, HE SHALL TEACH YOU ALL THINGS.

John 16:13 However, when He, the Spirit of truth, has come, He will guide you into all truth;

1 John 2:27 you do not need that anyone teach you; but as the same anointing teaches you concerning all things,

2002 Christian · May 4, 2002

Pastor N.B. · May 4, 2002

All verses are very true! All have a condition! Without the Conditions, they are 1/2 Gospel Truth, Right?
Pastor N.B.
PS: O'O! I've done it now, huh? :sleep:

ing of Matt. 25

2002 Christian · May 4, 2002

Shall we think? Shall we be reasonable? Shall we be logical? On every matter the answer seems to be "yes" except on the question of the Trinity. Here, in fact, it seems that not even our fundamental duty to search the scriptures, comparing one passage with another is to be exercised. Often we hear the words, "we cannot understand God. God is a mystery. The secret things belong to God. We should not seek to understand the nature of God." Of course, when this is translated what it really means is, "you are to accept the doctrine of the Trinity without question. You are to ignore those Bible passages which are diametrically opposed to such a teaching. On this matter you are to accept the traditions of the Church which have existed for the past 1600 years and it is dangerous to try to study and to believe the Bible on this matter. Here, you need the help of theologians who are the only ones able to understand these things." The truth is that the contradictions of the doctrine of the trinity, or, the triune God, or the three-in-one godhead (as some prefer to term it), is so full of illogical and unscriptural contradictions that the only way in which it is possible to maintain a belief in it is by discouraging individual and careful study of the matter. Men must be trained to be reflectors of the thoughts of other men.

JOhnPreparer · May 7, 2002

In the Bible, I read of two thrones.

Not really.. there are more than two thrones.... The throne of the Almighty and the thrones of the 24 elders.

Jesus sit at the right hand of God...

Isa 63:10
But they rebelled and grieved His Holy Spirit ; So He turned Himself against them as an enemy, And He fought against them.

In this sense, The Holy Spirit is from God.... Not a different being. THe verse stated His - belong to him... personally....

Daniel 4:9
"Belteshazzar, chief of the magicians, because I know that the Spirit of the Holy God is in you , and no secret troubles you, explain to me the visions of my dream that I have seen, and its interpretation.

Daniel 5:11
There is a man in your kingdom in whom is the Spirit of the Holy God . And in the days of your father, light and understanding and wisdom, like the wisdom of the gods, were found in him; and King Nebuchadnezzar your father--your father the king--made him chief of the magicians, astrologers, Chaldeans, and soothsayers.

Two verses clearly stated that our God, the Holy Spirit are one.

Do remember that God is a spirit not flesh...

2002 Christian · May 10, 2002

Here are my questions from above. (See context) Will someone try to answer my questions?

Why isn't the baby to be born called "the Son of the Holy Spirit?" If the Holy Spirit is a distinct Person from the Father, wouldn't the baby be the son of the "third Person of the Godhead"?

Is this "Spirit of his Son" really Jesus' own spirit or is it a "third Person of the Godhead"?

Why is "the Spirit of God" called "the finger of God" in this parallel account? Is "the finger of God" the same as "God"?

Fifteen out of the twenty-seven books of the New Testament start out with a greeting similar to this one. Why is the Person of the Father and the Person of the Son mentioned, but not the "third Person of the Godhead"?

Is this a "third Person of the Godhead" or another Person's Spirit that speaks?

Why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage? (7x)

If "the Spirit of God" is a distict Person separate from the Person "God," wouldn't "the spirit of man" be a distinct person separate from "man," since it says "EVEN SO" in the text?

BOTH means two. Assuming that "the BRANCH" is Jesus and "the LORD" is Jesus' Father, why isn't a "third Person of the Godhead" mentioned in this passage?

coastie · May 10, 2002

2002 Christian,

I think the problem is that you are asking too many questions at once. Kind of overwhelming. As a suggestion, why don't you pick 1 or 2 that you want answered first then methodically work your way down your list.

Zach

2002 Christian · May 10, 2002

People have had the opportunity for days to do as you suggest.

ljmandtina · May 10, 2002

When you look at the Trinity, you think of God as the Father; His Son is the Word - or Truth/God's Law; and the Holy Spirit is the power of God. It was the Holy Spirit that moved over the void and created the earth. It was the Holy Spirit that gave Christ His powers. It's the Holy Spirit that gives each believer gifts to be used within the body of the church. Or to say it another way, the Word is God's thoughts, the Holy Spirit is His power; they are all part of the same person and can do nothing apart from Him.

God bless

2002 Christian · May 10, 2002

"When you look at the Trinity..."

You assume there is such a thing.

sbbqb7n16 · May 10, 2002

Hey everyone (long time no post I know!)

May I suggest you find and read the book "The Practice of God's Presence" by Andrew Murray. This book is a compilation of other books one of which deals on the topic of the Holy Spirit and who He is. I personally found it VERY interesting!

From what I know.....the Holy Spirit is to God as your spirit is to you. Two separate things working inseparate from each other. That's how God works. His Holy Spirit is an individual, but so is He. Yes complicating I know.

Something I heard that really put a new perspective on things is this:

"The same 'one' in 'the Lord our God is one' is the same 'one' as in 'they shall be married and become one flesh'"

When you think about that and let God reveal all He can through that, you should find it very helpful as well. Hope you learn something..... otherwise I've wasted my fingers

"Holy Spirit" questions that deserve an answer

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