What does the US "Pledge of Allegiance" mean to you?

Durelen said:

What is this? Bunch of sound bites??

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Not a sound bite - a pertinent quote from the Lord.

You even know what that means?

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Indeed I do.

I also know that LiberalChristian totally 0wned you with this post.

Hey look, I answered the original posts question.

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Yes, and...?

If you cant except that then toooo bad!

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- snip -

Oh, I can accept it alright.

I also found your answer rather amusing.

Durelen said:

Sure did, your comment leads to the conclusion that I an in danger of sin (or have done)for foolishly supporting my country and I said you slumber because you lack understanding of the issue.

No one is nailing their ear to the door frame here and that is not even legal here in the US last I checked. I suppose if you never run for an office, never join or get drafted in the military, never stand in a court of law or never need to go through the process of becoming a citizen of the United States then you are in a sweet spot by your interpretations.


You guys should just pack up and go heh. Plenty have, so you are not alone.

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Hmmmmm.... I think I see why you were insulted. As I said earlier, I apologize for having offended you.

What I meant by my comment was that if you take an oath to support some one without any sort of restriction on that oath as is the case with the Pledge, we are in fact putting ourselves in such a position.

Yes, I guess you could say that I am saying you are in danger of sin, but do you take that as an insult? Personally, I am more than glad to hear some one tell me that I am at risk. I appreciate the sharing of their advice.

No need for hostility.

Personally I don't say the Pledge any more. I doubt that I would even if "under God" was removed. I think a true citizen shows their alliegence to this nation by actions, not words. By living up to our ideals and goals, by participating in the political process and by obeying the law.

The Oath of Office on the other hand I would say. In it you are making a committment to a job you are accepting on behalf of your fellow citizens. That committment makes you accountable. It's then up to the person who takes the Oath to live up to it or be removed from office.

USincognito said:

Personally I don't say the Pledge any more. I doubt that I would even if "under God" was removed. I think a true citizen shows their alliegence to this nation by actions, not words. By living up to our ideals and goals, by participating in the political process and by obeying the law.

The Oath of Office on the other hand I would say. In it you are making a committment to a job you are accepting on behalf of your fellow citizens. That committment makes you accountable. It's then up to the person who takes the Oath to live up to it or be removed from office.

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Excellent point. Your repsonse reminds me of the parable of the two sons. THe first son says he will go plow the field and then doesn't. The one says he won't and does. That to me is the case with the pledge. People are coerced into saying a pledge that is dedicated to liberty. Those who don't say the pledge in the name of liberty are standing by the best principles of the Constitution.

LiberalChristian said:

Yes, I guess you could say that I am saying you are in danger of sin, but do you take that as an insult? Personally, I am more than glad to hear some one tell me that I am at risk. I appreciate the sharing of their advice.

No need for hostility.

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LC, if you can possibly turn that around, and think about this:

What if I constantly told you ("shared my advice") that YOU are the one at risk; that I believe/hope that one day you will discover that the whole Jesus story IS myth (as I did)? If I kept right on insisting that I am very concerned for your well-being; and kept on arrogantly believing and asserting that MY way was the only way, the TRUE way, and what if I said "leave the country and quit whining", etc., would you not get just a tad bit irritated? What if I then said to you "No need for hostility" ????
Do you understand? Why is it that most christians do not know; do not think, do not understand, or even care, that the Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, BUT..........it also guarantees
freedom FROM religion!??

It disgusts me that anyone would even think that if one does not have a god belief, that somehow that translates to not loving or caring about their country and the Constitution.


A person might wonder, "What is it about a flag that would cause men to risk so much for a colorful piece of cloth?" But the value of the flag is not found in the fabric of its make-up. The value of the flag is found in what it represents. Think of it this way:

You have just gone to the store to buy school supplies. As you walk back to the car a strong gust of wind causes the sheaf of notebook paper you purchased to fly through the air and into the street. Would you risk your life to dash into the street to recover a simple sheet of paper? Of course you wouldn't.
Now imagine that as you walk back to the car you are holding a MILLION DOLLAR winning lottery ticket in your hand. To what extremes would you go to recover IT if the wind blew it into the street? Like the previous example, it is just a sheet of paper. But the million dollar winning ticket means more than paper, it represents something of far greater value.


Just like that lottery ticket is more than "just a piece of paper", our flag is more than just a colorful piece of cloth. The red, white and blue STARS AND STRIPES that inspired the Marines at Iwo Jima in 1945 represented something of immense value...Freedom. It found value in the sacrifices of almost 7,000 Marines who died at Iwo Jima. In fact, since the birth of our Nation, more than ONE MILLION Americans have died defending the freedom our Flag represents.

When you realize that I would fight to the death for YOUR rights to believe in YOUR god of choice, and also that I would do the same to defend MY rights NOT to believe in ANY god, then you will know what LIBERTY is; you will then understand that if we are ALL to be free, neither of us can deny the other their freedoms each is guaranteed by the Constitution. The goverment MUST be neutral, with regards to any religious beliefs. I would like the Pledge to be RESTORED to its ORIGINAL .

Nothing. I don't say it.

FactsB4Faith said:

LC, if you can possibly turn that around, and think about this:

What if I constantly told you ("shared my advice") that YOU are the one at risk; that I believe/hope that one day you will discover that the whole Jesus story IS myth (as I did)? If I kept right on insisting that I am very concerned for your well-being; and kept on arrogantly believing and asserting that MY way was the only way, the TRUE way, and what if I said "leave the country and quit whining", etc., would you not get just a tad bit irritated? What if I then said to you "No need for hostility" ????
Do you understand? Why is it that most christians do not know; do not think, do not understand, or even care, that the Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, BUT..........it also guarantees
freedom FROM religion!??

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I think you misunderstand my point. You were in a sense listening to a conversation between two family members. My comments were to another Christian brother about Christianity and the taking of oaths.
Concerning your comments about the constitution, you and I are in 100% agreement. I have no interest in using the state to get you or anyone else to believe or even act as a Christian.
Concerning "leave the country and quite whinning" I have been told that. In fact I have had things far worse than that said to me, the funny thing is that the most offensive things that have been said to me were said to me by my Brothers in Christ, and no I don't get irritated. I understand the passion and convictions of my Brothers and Sisters. If anything I feel sorry that they cannot express themselves without resorting to insults.

Ikaria said:

You can't serve God and mammon.

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"The U.N. was founded by people that later revealed in sworn testimony that they were Communists. It has been used by Communists to oppress the United States and to curttail them while allowing the Communists to march uncontested over the world."
- Uzi_4_U


"Marxism is spreading in the US."
- panteraprat

this is a joke right? this could not be a sincere quote. or do I have the pleasure of addressing Tail Gunner Joe

FactsB4Faith said:

LC, if you can possibly turn that around, and think about this:

What if I constantly told you ("shared my advice") that YOU are the one at risk; that I believe/hope that one day you will discover that the whole Jesus story IS myth (as I did)? If I kept right on insisting that I am very concerned for your well-being; and kept on arrogantly believing and asserting that MY way was the only way, the TRUE way, and what if I said "leave the country and quit whining", etc., would you not get just a tad bit irritated? What if I then said to you "No need for hostility" ????
Do you understand? Why is it that most christians do not know; do not think, do not understand, or even care, that the Constitution guarantees freedom OF religion, BUT..........it also guarantees
freedom FROM religion!??

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Well, if you don't want people to "share their advice" with you, you SHOULD leave the country. Every sngle person with any kind of belief system, wether it be Christianity, Humanism, Evolutionism, etc. And yes, we have religious freedom in this country, and our religion requires that we warn you about what we believe. If you don't like it, you have the right to decline our advice or counsel our nonsense if you believe it to be so.

If you are talking about being stalked by someone and them bashing you in the face with their beliefs then I agree with you, but I'm tired of people constantly ostracizing Christians for wanting to share their views and beliefs with others, but they don't bat an eye when evolutionists or humanists do it.

William Nunn said:

If you are talking about being stalked by someone and them bashing you in the face with their beliefs then I agree with you, but I'm tired of people constantly ostracizing Christians for wanting to share their views and beliefs with others, but they don't bat an eye when evolutionists or humanists do it.

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THe problem isn't as much christains "sharing their beliefs", as obnixious as witnessing and preaching is. The problem is the christians who use or attempt to use government authority to push their religion. This is the case with the Pledge where christians decided that

"From this day forward, the millions of our school children will daily proclaim in every city and town, every village and rural schoolhouse, the dedication of our Nation and our people to the Almighty." - Eisenhower, 1954, when signing the law that added Under God to the pledge.

Well, in that instance, I agree with you. I can't say that anyone should be forced to pledge anything they don't want to.

Most people don't leave it at that though. They can't be content with "live and let be". Just because some people don't want to pledge allegiance to God as well as country, many can't do it in a public forum, such as school. Personally, it offends me that my son/daughter may get in trouble or be told that they are in the wrong because they want to say "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance. But most people really don't care how offended Christians get.

William Nunn said:

Well, in that instance, I agree with you. I can't say that anyone should be forced to pledge anything they don't want to.

Most people don't leave it at that though. They can't be content with "live and let be". Just because some people don't want to pledge allegiance to God as well as country, many can't do it in a public forum, such as school. Personally, it offends me that my son/daughter may get in trouble or be told that they are in the wrong because they want to say "Under God" in the pledge of allegiance. But most people really don't care how offended Christians get.

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There is nothing in the recent pledge ruling that says that you kids can't say it. The ruling says that the government can't have teachers lead the kids in this overtly religious pledge.

However your kids can say it whenever they want in school.

crazyfingers,


As a lifelong atheist, I do not recall having ever recited the pledge. I always refused to do so.


So, do you have allegiance to the United States of America?

totheright said:

crazyfingers,


As a lifelong atheist, I do not recall having ever recited the pledge. I always refused to do so.


So, do you have allegiance to the United States of America?

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Yes. However I do not have any allegiance to and do not recognize any god. Therefore the pledge does not represent my beliefs.

Also when I was in school I always resisted the coercive situations in which I was expected to say it.

I believe the Pledge to be one of the worst travesties in America today. Most people cite that god is in it. That does not bother me at all of course. However the fact that you are pledging yourself to a government that does all sorts of wrongs and the history behind the pledge it truly makes me sick.

it means nothing at all to me

Isis-Astoroth said:

it means nothing at all to me

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I don't know why it would.

I stopped saying the pledge when I was around 13 because of my lack of belief in god. I would stand out of respect for the soldiers who had died to give me the freedom to not recite the pledge. Now, with the travesties and lies that is the Bush administration, I refuse to even stand.

Growing up in school, i never understood the point in standing up and reciting something, and, by time i got to highschool, i didnt even stand up. Now, i wish i had, there is so much meaning to it. First of all, i love my country!! 2nd of all, i love my creator!! The pledge stands for what america should be...One Nation Under God. BUT, as a free nation, we can not force others to do something, or say osmething they do not believe in. Which i completely agree with. and which is why i love America...We are allowed to be our own persons! I can step outside, and yell I LOVE JESUS...and no one can do anything about it. In other countries, i couldnt even carry my bible around. Therefore, i do love my country, and from here untill the day i die, i will ALWAYS stand up, and say the Pledge with pride, and respect! For those who have died, so that i can stand up, and be proud of what i believe in , without fear of my neighbor!!