tithing

endure

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well ill be one to say that i believe tithing is something we must do.
i think the word tithing itself explains the meaning, a tithe is a ten percent.
and i believe that we must take 10% of all our income and give it to the churches and those who work in the church to support them and their families.

i believe that we must do this, even under the new covenant.

i have several scriptures, but not tonight so.
well thats what i believe.

i know alot of people dont agree with that, well anyway.
 
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seebs

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It's abundantly clear, IMHO, that the tithe was not given "to the church" except every third year, and that it was a tithe on increase, not just income. Even then, we don't have Levites making sacrifices for us; we have one sacrifice, which was made two thousand years ago, and since then, things have been different.

I have seen a lot of people driven from the faith by men in expensive suits with big cars demanding that people produce pay stubs so it could be confirmed that their tithe was big enough. I urge everyone to remember the one time Jesus got violent in the Gospels...

I think we should give a great deal to worthy causes; I just don't think we should always interpose a church between us and the work God wants us to do.
 
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JillLars

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I don't think that tithing is required, but I try to give money when I can because the church I go to has a lot of outreach programs in the community, and they work very hard to support the members of the church. I have been to churches that require money, but don't do anything for the members or the community, and I did get a little cynical when I saw the priest driving a big ol' lincoln around. Anyhoo, I think its nice to support churches that support other people.
 
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endure

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there are people who do not have the oppurtunity to work full time jobs, becuase of their commitments to the church, the only way they will be able to watch over their families and still be who they need to be in the church, is to receive from the church. we do have people who need to be supported by the church today, and not only them, but its the only way to support the vision of the church financially.

you cant judge anything by its abuse.

tithing was taught 430 years before the law.
gen 14.20
gen 28.22
hebrews 7.1-11

tithing in the new testament

Christ taught it.
matt 23.23

teachers are to be given support in all ways.
gal 6.6

God ordained support of ministers.
1 cor 9.7-14

matt 23.23
...you pay tithe...but have ommited the weightier matters of the law, judgment and mercy and faith: these ought you to have done, and not to leave the other undone.

Jesus Christ supported tithing.

the thing is, a tithe is a tithe... its no more or no less.
preachers cant ask for MORE tithe so they can get rich, a tithe is a flat rate.
whether those preachers squander it is up to them, but the church is commanded to tithe and support the ministers.

i know that at my church, my pastor does not determine the amount of the tithe that he receives as a pay check. the board of the church decides that.
part of the money given is to support him, but rest to support the vision of the church and the church itself. without the tithe my pastor could likely not support his family and still be what he is in our church.
and without a doubt, without the tithe our churchs vision would never come to pass.
our pastor is paid a check like everyone else.
what he chooses to do with that is up to him and his family.
but as for me, my pastor has done far far more for me, and deserves much much more than just an escalade or a nice comfortable home.

a remember one person said,
"money isnt important, its just right up there with air"
and another
"i once wanted to be comfortable not rich, but then i found out to be comfortable you gotta be rich!"
and another
"POVERTY SUCKS, YOU HERE ME! HEHE"
hehe.

but people have the right to enjoy life and enjoy the fruit of their work, it doesnt all have to be given away to gospel, God doesnt require that.
so pastors do have the right to by things, just like i do, and just like you do.

ecc 5.18
behold that which i have seen: it is good and comely for one to eat and to drink, and to enjoy the good of all his labour that he taketh under the sun all the days of his life, which God giveth him: FOR IT IS HIS PORTION.

we all have jobs that we ought to see as ministries unto people, and as we work in these Jobs we receive payment and we have the ability to be increased and receive wealth, and we have the ability to use this money support our families but also to increase our enjoyment as we please, and we have the right to see our pay increases from our good work.
i dont see why pastors should be any diffrent.

it isnt impossible for us to dress the same way and drive the same things, if we will learn to manage our money and learn how to utilise the gifts God gave us we also could create wealth for ourselves.
a silk suit isnt something outrageously expensive, neither is a caddilac.
i mean, there is a way to be rediculous... but there is also a way to be wealthy and drive fancy cars and wear fine clothing without being selfish or at other peoples expenses.
if a pastors church does not have the ability to support him like that, then so be it, he should be content, but if the church does and if the board is willing to pay him that amount, he should be able to use it as he pleases.
my pastor has an escalade, my pastor has a bmw, but the bible promises that any man that has wisdom has the ability to be wealthy its a given thing to all men if they will have wisdom. wisdom creates wealth and financial success, and success in all arenas, period.
and many of the people in our congregation drive even more expensive vehicles, so its not like he is rich in our poverty. he works for his payment like we all do. though it isnt just about the money, as it shouldnt be for us either.
he is blessed, as he blesses us, and it returns to him. as you cast your bread upon the waters...it will always return to you.

we all have something, that if matured and perfected, the world is willing to pay us very very well for.
we all have the ability to become wealthy. it isnt that a pastor has become something we can never be, at our expense.

the bible says it is God that has given the power to get wealth.
he gave us that. duet 8.
and pastors arent excluded.
and they shouldnt have to work a side job unless they have to.
the sheperds in the churches should be allowed to give themselves wholly unto prayer, fasting and doctrine, as paul told timothy to be and the the church leaders in acts said they should be.
so they can be the pastors and sheperds they need to be.
 
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LOVELYST

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hello, here is what I was taught in the bible about tithing. Tithing is required from us christians, because the bible says that God's commands it from us, yes some people think because of how the pastor uses the money, they do not want to give, but don't look at it that way, let God be the judge, not you, because if they miss use the tithe, then God will judge them. Tithing is telling God thank you for my income, and then it's then turned around a blessed us, in so many ways, I believe that who ever christian that is a tither in one way or another have been blessed, if we say we're christians, and we love God, then why do we have to question tithing? when it clearly states that it is required of us.
 
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skb

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I'd like to respond to endures' listed scriptures to explain a few things.

First (no offense to Endure) it is obvious that the OT tithe system is not completely understood.

First lets talk about Abraham, Abraham did pay a tithe to the current high priest and King of Salem. But it was not asked for or commanded by God. It was a tribute paid according to custom. Tithes were paid to Kings and other gods (false) back then. So the discernment that Abraham paid and they taught a tithe system of giving is a false one. This tithe was a one time offering only, not the yearly 10% of your increase, year by year. Also read how much Abraham gained, he gave it all to others and his increase was nothing.

Hebrew 7:1-11 is simply a reference to the deity of Jesus. Read the rest of the chapter to see were Jesus brought a new covenant.

The response to Matt 23:23 is all to simple. Jesus had not yet fullfilled the law. So yes He would have told the Jews to tithe because they were still under the old covenant. But he or any other Apostle never instructed Christs Church to tithe or set up a giving system based on anything but the love in your heart and the prompting of the Holy Spirit.

Also, look at this reference to the then church and see the hypocricy where they put so much emphasis on the material expression and totaly missed understanding God. Then say "Let's build our church the same way". My suggestion is to take the examples of hypocricy and go the other way. An example of what not to be or do.

Ordained support for ministers: True but no mention of a tithe sytem.

Tithing is only stated in one portion of scripture and that is the Mosaic law. The law given as a covenant to those that were blessed with land after entering into the promised land. No place else will you find a tithe system that was more like 23% in scriputre. Before then it was based on the same principles is is today. Free will giving of the heart.

Lets explore Acts 15 where the Apostle Peter was envolved in a dispute about keeping the law. Converted Jews were trying to tell the church that law keeping was a requirement. They were talking about being saved but also law keeping in total. Well what did the Apostle say, DO not preach keeping the law as commandment. Now the law they were talking about is the ritual law, circumcision, tithing, sacrifces and the other ordinances. All the laws that died on the cross with our Lord Jesus. The Apostles did not say to remeber that law keeping was not for salvation BUT you still had to go back and observe the law. They said that anyone that taught keeping the laws to the church did not do so by any commandment of the Apostles, thereby it was not of the Holy Spirit and not of God.

The Apostles never mentioned tithing as a thing to be done in the church and they taught about giving and supporting other a lot. Tithing is a tradition and a stone of the old temple that men have tried to rebuild thinking they knew better than God how to fund church operations.

Preach it the way the Apostles preached it and you'll do well. The heart surrendered to Christ completely will give God control of all. Not just a portion. No amount of money will justify or sanctify, God only judges the heart, if the heart is right the gift is worthy regardless of the amount just like the widow casting her two mites into the treasury.

When we teach any other way we not getting the full truth out of scripture.
 
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seebs

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momof3blessings said:
When my husband and I give our tithe we give it to God through the church. We give 10% What the church does with the money is not my worry if they misuse it they have to answer to God not me. We have done what we were told to.

I would be a bit concerned about this. Christianity is not about doing what we're told, and washing our hands of it. Get involved. Get your hands dirty. The point of tithing is not to write a check every so often and be done.
 
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As far as I can find.. Tithing is giving 10%... however in the new testament a percentage isn't given... the concept of giving back to God is mentioned but it isn't a requirement as a Christian, it is more of a suggestion or a "proof" of loyalty to God.. much like love is..
 
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momof3blessings

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seebs said:
I would be a bit concerned about this. Christianity is not about doing what we're told, and washing our hands of it. Get involved. Get your hands dirty. The point of tithing is not to write a check every so often and be done.
I do what God's says for us to do not out of resposibility but out of love We are thanking God that my husband has a job. That he is providing for us./
I am involved I teach in the toddler's room at our church. you should have asked before you accuse. I do get my hands dirty. I stated a fact about tithing not about my involvement in my church.
 
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endure

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i think tithing is something taught in the bible for us today, as a way of life for all people.
i think we are required to do this, but if we dont, it isnt like we are going to hell, though i do beleive we are out of the will of God.
but its taught all through the bible, as something that will cause us to prosper, certainly in the old testament.

skb
easy is a good word for your explanation of my view of matt 23.23.

though i dont think it works.
i mean, it makes sense. but we dont know that Jesus would have said it any diffrent if he had already died. we only assume that.

we dont know the reason he sanctioned them to do that, was that he was supposedly under the old covenant still, which is also a debated issue.
becuase john the baptist was preaching the gospel and the new covenant already, if it was being preached why couldnt it have been in effect?
though thats one for another time.

and to say that if we continue to do this, we are guilty of the rest of the old law and subject to it, is just as rediculous as saying that if we do not murder a person we are guilty of the old law also, simply on the basis that that teaching was under the old law.

we still end up living out many of the teachings that were in the old law, but not becuase they were a part of the law, but becuase God desires them of us today also. and tithes is this way i beleive.
becuase it is a principle of success and prosperity and way for God to bless and provide for his people.
 
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waas_MI

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What did JESUS say about Tithing/Giving ?

Introduction:

Tithing is a form of HONORING God. This involves GIVING.
In the New Testament JESUS does not lay out rules on TITHING but he
talks a lot more about GIVING ( Not just money ). This doesn't mean
that he abolished or replaced TITHING. He wants us to share/give our time
and talents as well. That is a part of Stewardship.


What is TITHING ?:

Let's be careful here. You may have your own definition ( I won't argue with that ).
For most folks it means: Giving 10% of your entire income ( calculated based on the before tax amount )
to God. Some folks do it weekly, some do it monthly depending on how they get paid or earn income.

I will stop with that simple definition because I don't want to stir up
an argument here. I give it to a church but some folks may disagree.
If you have doubts with this definition post a question and let someone
else answer for you.




Purpose of this posting:

To point out a few places in the New Testament where
TITHING is mentioned and also to introduce the principles
of "Giving" described by Jesus.


FYI - I have not included any scripture from any of the books
written by PAUL. Not that I am against him. We can discuss
that some time later. But for now, lets see what Jesus
said about TITHING and GIVING.

Why am I posting this message?:


During our previous discussions, I noticed that there
was resistance from readers about TITHING because
most of the scripture was taken from the old testament
( Like MALACHI 3:10, Proverbs 3:9 ) and so they came up with
many reasons as to why one shouldn't TITHE and also each
person had a somewhat different opinion about TITHING.
Some folks had read Malachi 3 and was confused about
the following:
1.What percentage to give ?
2.Was this only for farmers ?
3.Should you be only TITHING crops ?
4.The old law was only to feed the levites ?

Forget about that and let's see what Jesus had to say.
Lets move on then.. Shall we ?



1. Did Jesus ever talk about the TITHE ?

He does mention this in a parable Luke 18:9 ( Parable of the two men who prayed ).
But the idea of the parable is not to teach how to TITHE. I selected this piece of scripture
to show that TITHING was already in pratice during the time of Jesus


Luke 9:10 Two men went up to the temple to pray, one a Pharisee and the
other a tax collector ....Luke 9:12 I fast twice a week and give a tenth
of all I get



2. Did Jesus ever talk about the TITHE ?

Matthew 23:23
"Woe to you, teachers of the law and Pharisees, you hypocrites! You give a tenth
of your spices-mint, dill and cummin. But you have neglected the more important matters of the law-justice mercy and faithfulness. You should have practiced the latter without neglecting the former.

2.1 Let's see what we learn here
2.1.1 Jesus is pointing out that you must have faith and be merciful before you think of TITHING. There is no value in TITHING if we don't respect God's principles.
2.1.2 Jesus is talking about the teachers of Law and Pharisees -> Now that doesn't mean that it only applies to them. We are to obey as well.



3. Did Jesus talk about any conditions before we GIVE ? - YES ( See below )

Matthew 5:23 "Therefore if you are offering your gift at the altar and there remember that your brother has something against you, leave your gift there infront of the altar. First go and be reconciled to your brother;then come and offer your gift.

3.1 Let's see what we learn here
3.1.1. Jesus is pointing out another precursor to giving. He wants you to have forgiven all others and have gotten rid of any anger against others before offering him a gift. There is no value in our gifts/offering if we don't respect God's principles.



4. Did Jesus ever talk about giving to God ?

Luke 21:1 As he looked up , Jesus saw the rich putting their gifts into the
temple treasury.
Luke 21:2 He also saw a poor widow put in two very small
copper coins. "I tell you the truth," he said,
"this poor widow has put in more than
all the others."

Luke 21:4 All these people gave their gifts out of their wealth;
but she out of her poverty put in all she had to live on.

4.1) What do we learn from the above incident and why did Jesus comment about this?

4.1.1) Jesus admired the gift of the poor widow more than other Gifts. Why ? Her poverty didn't prevent her from honoring God. She could have kept it for herself because she didn't have.
4.1.2) Her giving was a sacrifice. She didn't give out of what was extra or what was left.
4.1.3) She didn't just limit her self to 10%.
4.1.4) She made a decision to give to God ( The temple treasury ).
Now, My opinion on 2.1 - The poor widows example
It is very clear that Jesus doesn't want to limit
the giving to just 10%. On the other hand he doesn't hate us for not giving.
Please make your own decision as to what you should give to the Church.
[/COLOR]


5. Does Jesus promise a blessing when you give ?

Yes he does! Luke 6:38 - Let's see what he said.


Luke 6:38 "Give and it will be given to you. A good measure, pressed down,
shaken together and running over, will be poured into your lap. For with the
measure you use, it will be measured to you."


5.1 What do we learn from this ?

5.1.1) Jesus (God) makes a promise to return to us more than what we give.
Now, My opinion on LUKE 6:38
Jesus promises that if you give he is going to return a bigger amount. If you give him one scoop expect him to return a bigger scoop.
Some books refer to this as
"You can not outgive God". This simply means if you give him x amount he will always return
an amount that is greater than what you gave him.




6. Examples taken from the Bible on GIVING (from the New Testament, After Christ had died)

Acts 4:33There was no needy persons among them. For from time to time those who owned lands or houses sold them, brought the money from the sales and put it at the apostles feet, and it was distributed to anyone as he had needed.

Acts 5:1 - The story of Ananias and his wife Sapphira
Now a man named Ananias, together with his wife Sapphira, also
sold a piece of property. With his wife's full knowledge he kept back
part of the money for himself, but brought the rest and put it at the
apostles feet.
5:3 Then Peter said, "Ananinas how is it that Satan has so filled
your heart that you have lied to the Holy Spirit and have kept for
yourself some of the money you received for the land ? Didn't it belong
to you before it was sold ? And after it was sold, wasn't the money
at your disposal? What made you think of doing such a thing? You have
not lied to men but to God."
5:5 When Ananinas heard this, he fell down and died. And great fear
seized all who heard what had happened. Then the young men came
forward wrapped up his body and carried him out and buried him.
5:7 About 3 hours later his wife came in,not knowing what had
happened. Peter asked her,"Tell me is this the price you and
Ananinas had got for the land ?

"Yes," she said, "that is the price."
( She messed it ?, Ha )
5:9 Peter said to her, "How could you agree to test the spirit of the Lord? Look the feet of the men who buried your husband are at the door, and they will carry you out also."( I certainly don't like Peter's comment - Why is he putting pressure ? )
5:10 At that moment she fell down at his feet and died. ( Oops! What a terrible mess ? )

Now-> Listen to my opinion about Ananias and his wife Sapphira
Folks! This is not a good example because it causes fear about giving.
Personally, I won't expect anyone to sell property and give 100% to God.
This is not the message I want to share with you.
What happened here was something different. The man tried to act as if
he was giving 100% to Peter ( who was the High Priest at that time ).
God acted and he lost his life. The same with the wife. The lesson that
we have to learn is that we should not lie about our giving.

Now let's summarize what we learn about giving in the New Testament.
1. Tithing was a practice even when Jesus lived ( Not just for farmers ). The Bible says that in Luke 9:12.
2. Jesus admires ( honors ) when a person gives beyond what is comfortable. This is very clear in the poor widows example.
3. The giving goes well beyond 10% and Giving is not limited to personal income.God honors giving your money, talents and time
4. Jesus promises blessings in return when you give. Jesus makes a promise in Luke 6:38 to return more with respect to what you give
5. We can not lie or pretend about giving. The lord knows it all.
6. Before we go ahead with our good acts ( such as TITHING ) we must first ask for forgiveness and make sure that we have forgiven our enemy.





A final note from the Author ( me):
Thank you for your time. I hope this cleared some of the doubts about TITHING.
But I am sure some of you may still have some questions, Never mind! Just shoot them and expect
an answer.
I know Apostle Paul talks a lot about GIVING. But I only wanted to
concentrate on what JESUS had to say. We can discuss PAUL some time
later.
By the way, If you can find more interesting examples of scripture
about TITHING or GIVING from the New Testament, post it so that I know
what I have missed.

Bye now and God bless! :wave: :wave:

 
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