Biblical observations of science...

ChristianDude777

Well-Known Member
Apr 14, 2005
1,363
68
59
Georgia
✟16,919.00
Faith
Non-Denom
Politics
US-Republican
This is the beginning of what I hope will be a series of posts to show, among other things, the agreements between science and the bible. The author (God) of the Bible certainly understands scientific principles as He created them…



Time had a beginning



…And the evening and the morning were the first day. (Gen 1:5)

...This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (2 Timothy 1:9)
a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, (Titus 1:2)
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)




The universe had a beginning



In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)

This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. (Genesis 2:4)

Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens…(Isaiah 42:5)

"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. (Isaiah 54:12)

For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, But formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:18)

For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created by Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:16)





The universe was created from the invisible



Hebrews 11:3 Through faith we understand that the worlds were framed by the word of God, so that things which are seen were not made of things which do appear.



The universe is expanding

Who alone stretches out the heavens, And tramples down the waves of the sea; (Job 9:8)
Covering Thyself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. (Psalms 104:2)
It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)



The universe is winding down and will "wear out"

In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth, and the heavens are the work of your hands. They will perish, but you remain; they will all wear out like a garment. Like clothing you will change them and they will be discarded. But you remain the same, and your years will never end. (Psalms 102:25-27)

Number of stars could be in the billions



"'I will make the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister before Me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.'" (Jeremiah 33:22)

Every star is different

The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. (1 Corinthians 15:41)

Pleiades and Orion as gravitationally bound star groups

"Can you bind the beautiful Pleiades? Can you loose the cords of Orion?" (Job 38:31)



The earth is controlled by the heavens

Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?" (Job 38:33)

Earth is round

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22)

Earth is suspended in space

He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. (Job 26:7)

Water cycle described

All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
As the rain and the snow come down from heaven, and do not return to it without watering the earth and making it bud and flourish, so that it yields seed for the sower and bread for the eater, (Isaiah 55:10)
"For He draws up the drops of water, They distill rain from the mist, Which the clouds pour down, They drip upon man abundantly." (Job 36:27-28)


Valleys exist on the bottom of the sea

The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils. (2 Samuel 22:16)

Vents exist on the bottom of the sea

"Have you journeyed to the springs of the sea or walked in the recesses of the deep? (Job 38:16)

Ocean currents in the sea

... and the fish of the sea, all that swim the paths of the seas. (Psalms 8:8)

Air has weight

"When He imparted weight to the wind, And meted out the waters by measure" (Job 28:25)

Life of creatures are in the blood

For the life of a creature is in the blood... (Leviticus 17:11)



And yes, I plagerized this post (Kidding) :) . I did find this list on a web site though.

Tim L.
 

jwu

Senior Member
Sep 18, 2004
1,314
66
41
✟9,329.00
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Single
Earth is round

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22)
There has been a lot of controversy about this. Most of it is focused on semantics about the "circle" not being the same as a sphere, but methinks describing the heavens to be "like a canopy" and "like a tent" is in no way compatible with a spherical earth - it only makes sense with a flat one.



Life of creatures are in the blood

For the life of a creature is in the blood... (Leviticus 17:11)

That's quite non-telling methinks. One could also say "life of creatures are in the heart", "...in its nerves", "...in its <any other vital thing>"
 
Upvote 0

235U92

Active Member
Feb 15, 2005
218
6
37
✟7,868.00
Faith
Agnostic
Marital Status
Single
ChristianDude777 said:
Time had a beginning



…And the evening and the morning were the first day. (Gen 1:5)

...This grace was given us in Christ Jesus before the beginning of time, (2 Timothy 1:9)
a faith and knowledge resting on the hope of eternal life, which God, who does not lie, promised before the beginning of time, (Titus 1:2)
No, we speak of God's secret wisdom, a wisdom that has been hidden and that God destined for our glory before time began. (1 Corinthians 2:7)




The universe had a beginning



In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)

This is the account of the heavens and the earth when they were created, in the day that the LORD God made earth and heaven. (Genesis 2:4)

Thus says God the LORD, Who created the heavens…(Isaiah 42:5)

"It is I who made the earth, and created man upon it. (Isaiah 54:12)

For thus says the LORD, who created the heavens (He is the God who formed the earth and made it, He established it and did not create it a waste place, But formed it to be inhabited), "I am the LORD, and there is none else. (Isaiah 45:18)

For by Him all things were created, both in the heavens and on earth, visible and invisible, whether thrones or dominions or rulers or authorities-- all things have been created by Him and for Him. (Colossians 1:16)

As of right now, it is useless to talk about the universe having had a beginning. It may not have had one at all, but we will not know this until there is a theory of Quantum Gravity.

As for the beginning of time, I think it relates to the "beginning of the universe" if there every was one. Time is nothing more than change. But an event can happen without "time", mathematically atleast.
 
Upvote 0

Edx

Senior Veteran
Apr 3, 2005
4,626
118
✟5,474.00
Faith
Atheist
ChristianDude777 said:
The universe had a beginning


In the beginning, God created the heavens and the earth (Genesis 1:1)


--snip-- They believed heaven was above the firmament which stretched out like a tent, over their flat circular earth beyond the great waters. It doesnt relate to the universe, of which they had no concept.



The universe is expanding

Who alone stretches out the heavens, And tramples down the waves of the sea; (Job 9:8)
Covering Thyself with light as with a cloak, Stretching out heaven like a tent curtain. (Psalms 104:2)
It is He who sits above the vault of the earth, And its inhabitants are like grasshoppers, Who stretches out the heavens like a curtain And spreads them out like a tent to dwell in. (Isaiah 40:22)

Wow, what a stretch that is!

They believed God lived in heaven, beyond the firmament, beyond the waters. It "stretched out" across their flat earth like a tent. And from a high mountain people might look like insects, but from space you could never see anyone.


Number of stars could be in the billions

"'I will make the descendants of David My servant and the Levites who minister before Me as countless as the stars of the sky and as measureless as the sand on the seashore.'" (Jeremiah 33:22)


Does it say billions? ^_^ It says countless because there were so many and they couldnt count them all. Thats all.



Every star is different

The sun has one kind of splendor, the moon another and the stars another; and star differs from star in splendor. (1 Corinthians 15:41)

Stars were often held to be different, thats why they invented many gods to explain their motions in particular one star Venus, Lucifer.

The earth is controlled by the heavens

Do you know the ordinances of the heavens, or fix their rule over the earth?" (Job 38:33)


Yes, they say saying that heaven (literally) rules the earth. Its nothing more complicated than that.



Earth is round

He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, and its people are like grasshoppers. He stretches out the heavens like a canopy, and spreads them out like a tent to live in. (Isaiah 40:22)
The commen belief at the time and location was in a flat "circular" earth. And the Hebrews have a word for ball, but Isaiah chose to use the word "circle".

The Hebrews like the commen Babylonian beliefs thought the earth was flat and immovable, with a physical vault over the earth, the firmament, that stretched accross the earth. Beyond the firmament were great waters, and it had flood gates (windows). God lived beyond that further still in Heaven. The earth itself was essentially flat which was held up by pillars and the stars could fall from the sky and be stamped on. Stars were also held as cosmic beings. Lucifer is one of these "stars". Lucifer is the Latin translation of the Hebrew "Helel ben Shahar" which means "morning star, son of dawn". Lucifer means "light bearer". Helel ben Shahar was a Bablyloian price that was punished for trying to defy his father.In Babylonian mythology Shahar was the "god of the dawn" who had a son. It was usual at the time to associate stars with gods and sons of gods, Helel ben Shahar has been associated with Venus' place in the sky "morning star". Venus of course was a planet, but they did not know that.

But I digress. There is no reason at all to think that the Hebrews knew any more about the nature of the universe than their neighbours.
(for more see post number 135 on this page: http://www.christianforums.com/t1519946-isaiah-circular-earth.html&page=14


Earth is suspended in space

He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. (Job 26:7)

It also says it is immovable and set on pillars.



Water cycle described

All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again. (Ecclesiastes 1:7)
Sounds quite obvious to me.

"For He draws up the drops of water, They distill rain from the mist, Which the clouds pour down, They drip upon man abundantly." (Job 36:27-28)
According to Strongs biblical useage of the word "ra`aph" means a) (Qal) to trickle, drip b) (Hiphil) to trickle. So the rain, trickles from the mist. It was likely obvious to them that mist contains water. The word "ra`aph" certianly isnt anything more than that.


Valleys exist on the bottom of the sea

The valleys of the sea were exposed and the foundations of the earth laid bare at the rebuke of the LORD, at the blast of breath from his nostrils. (2 Samuel 22:16)

First of all you cant discover the foundations of the earth by removing the water. But you can if you believe in a flat earth. Im not really sure what to tell you about what "valleys" means, except that in isolation they may have by pure coinsidence got a few things correct since nothing else suggests what you are trying to prove. Im sure someone that understands it better than me could shed more light on that.

Air has weight

"When He imparted weight to the wind, And meted out the waters by measure" (Job 28:25)
Some translations say "the force of the wind" which in context makes much more sence.

Life of creatures are in the blood

For the life of a creature is in the blood... (Leviticus 17:11)

For all the people and animals they were ordered to kill Im sure they figured that out.

Ed
 
Upvote 0
ChristianDude777 said:


Earth is suspended in space

He spreads out the northern skies over empty space; he suspends the earth over nothing. (Job 26:7)

So kind of you to mention that Job says this, for which God royally berates him in the next chapter, saying something to the tune of, "Were you not there when I set the earth immovable on its foundations?"

Must have just slipped your mind, right?
 
Upvote 0

ChrisS

Senior Veteran
May 20, 2004
2,270
50
✟10,170.00
Faith
Atheist
Marital Status
Private
Politics
US-Others
Look at American history, if someone was to right a religious book say, 200 years ago, and then thousands of years later have it translated by another civilization, you would think that the translated document would have some mistranslations, that's what's going on here Edx. We don't know how different ancient hebrew was from modern hebrew.
 
Upvote 0
B

b*unique

Guest
ChrisS said:
Look at American history, if someone was to right a religious book say, 200 years ago, and then thousands of years later have it translated by another civilization, you would think that the translated document would have some mistranslations, that's what's going on here Edx. We don't know how different ancient hebrew was from modern hebrew.

OK;)
 
Upvote 0

Edx

Senior Veteran
Apr 3, 2005
4,626
118
✟5,474.00
Faith
Atheist
ChrisS said:
Look at American history, if someone was to right a religious book say, 200 years ago, and then thousands of years later have it translated by another civilization, you would think that the translated document would have some mistranslations, that's what's going on here Edx. We don't know how different ancient hebrew was from modern hebrew.

So then you can pretend it means whatever you like, essentially. And this would also render the OP completely worthless even without my reply.

Ed
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums

jwu

Senior Member
Sep 18, 2004
1,314
66
41
✟9,329.00
Faith
Unitarian
Marital Status
Single
Analogies as "like a tent" aren't literal by definition.

This analogy however is completely unsuitable for describing how the heavens get stretched out around the earth. For a spherical earth this analogy is simply incorrect, not applicable in any way.
Why would someone who knows that the earth is a sphere use an analogy which requires a flat earth to work?
 
Upvote 0

Edx

Senior Veteran
Apr 3, 2005
4,626
118
✟5,474.00
Faith
Atheist
ChrisS said:
Nope, it means circle can mean sphere, which valididates the OP.

You ignored my points. Well done.

And circle doesnt mean sphere. A circle never means sphere. They had a word for a ball when they meant ball, but they used a word that specifically means circle. The way they talk of the earth is no different to other people at the time and location.

Ed
 
Upvote 0

random_guy

Senior Veteran
Jan 30, 2005
2,528
148
✟3,457.00
Faith
Christian
As a Christian, but also as someone that loves science, the OP is bull. What if in ten years, we find that the BB is wrong? We would have to reinterpret everything in the OP. If there was any prediction ability in the Bible in regards to the natural world, we shouldn't have to discover that principle first in science, then find it in the Bible. It should be the other way around.

If we want to truly show that the Bible has real scientific weight, people would read a prediction in the Bible, then check to see if that occurs in the natural world. However, noticed that when people did do this, they get all sorts of weird ideas (geocentricism, flat Earth, spheres of planets, demons causing diseases). This gives a strong sign that the Bible shouldn't be read as a science book, but as a book about lessons, morality, and values.
 
Upvote 0
This site stays free and accessible to all because of donations from people like you.
Consider making a one-time or monthly donation. We appreciate your support!
- Dan Doughty and Team Christian Forums