Well, this would be allot of quoting so I will just throw in a penny.
"Wrath"
Rev.6:14-17, shows the wrath of God beginning, when the seals are opened.
14. Then the sky receded as a scroll when it is rolled up, and every mountain and island was moved out of its place.
15. And the kings of the earth, the great men, the rich men, the commanders, the mighty men, every slave and every free man, hid themselves in the caves and in the rocks of the mountains,
16. and said to the mountains and rocks, "Fall on us and hide us from the face of Him who sits on the throne and from the
wrath of the Lamb !
17.
"For the great day of His wrath has come, and who is able to stand?"
Well this shows the wrath part.
Are WE to go through His wrath?
1 Thes.5:9&10 9.
For God did not appoint us to wrath , but to obtain salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ,
10. who died for us, that whether we wake or sleep, we should live together with Him.
How do we know when we are "taken Up"? Something happens first.
2 Thessalonians 2
1. Now, brethren,
concerning the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ and our gathering together to Him, we ask you,
2. not to be soon shaken in mind or troubled, either by spirit or by word or by letter, as if from us, as though the day of Christ had come.
3.
Let no one deceive you by any means; for that Day will not come unless the falling away comes first, and the man of sin is revealed, the son of perdition,
4. who opposes and exalts himself above all that is called God or that is worshiped, so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God.
5. Do you not remember that when I was still with you I told you these things?
6.
And now you know what is restraining,
that he may be revealed in his own time.
7. For the mystery of lawlessness is already at work;
only He who now restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. 8.
And then the lawless one will be revealed ,
whom the Lord will consume with the breath of His mouth and destroy with the brightness of His coming. 9. The coming of the lawless one is according to the working of Satan, with all power, signs, and lying wonders,
10. and with all unrighteous deception among those who perish, because they did not receive the love of the truth, that they might be saved.
The two "He that restrains," is in the Greek in the feminine and the mascline. So that which restrains would be the Holy Spirit and the Bride of Christ, The Church. For sure the Holy Spirit as His work of restraining the powers that be in this world will be on hold if you will, so satan can do his thing. The church being second is debated, But I believe if the Holy Spirit is taken out of the way so are we, He said He would never leave us or forsake us. So I believe it to be the Holy Spirit and the Church.
Now we know that satan will do this- "
so that he sits as God in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God"
he does this in the middle if the Tribulation, well there goes post Trib. view, because then we could look forward 3 and one half years and say "here is when Christ will come." The Bible does not teach that, it teaches "no man knoweth thee hour" and "like a theif in the night."
In Revelation chapter 1:19 John is told "Write the things which you have
seen, and
the things which are, and
the things which will take place after this.
seen, The things he just saw and heard from ch.1:1-19
the things which are, The Churches and the church age Chapters 2 & 3.
the things which will take place after this After the church age.
Now look at Chapter 4:1
After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven. And the first voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here, and
I will show you things which must take place after this."
After these things What things? What He just revealed to John.
"Come up here, and
I will show you things which must take place after this ."
This means He will show him (John) things that will take place after those things- AFTER the church age.
Now where is he taken? into heaven! By what means? "A voice which I heard was like a trumpet speaking with me, saying, "Come up here."
1 Thessalonians 4:16 "For the Lord Himself will descend from heaven with a shout." How about "come up here"?
"like a trumpet" Revelation 1:10&11 I was in the Spirit on the Lord's Day, and I heard behind me a
loud voice, as of a trumpet ,
11. saying, "I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last,'' This is Jesus.
Now in Chapter 4 We go into the Throne room of Heaven what do we see?
Rev. 4:4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and on the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white robes; and they had crowns of gold on their heads.
These are representatives of the church. I believe 12 from the Old Testament & 12 from the New Testament. They wear the same clothing and have crowns, which we will have.
You say, "well that dont prove anything about us being in heaven." Go to capter 5
Revelation 5:8-14. Now when He had taken the scroll, the four living creatures and the
twenty-four elders fell down before the Lamb, each having a harp, and golden bowls full of incense, which are the prayers of the saints.
9. And they sang a new song, saying: "You are worthy to take the scroll, and to open its seals; for You were slain, and have redeemed
us to God
by Your blood out of every tribe and tongue and people and nation ,
Just those 24 Elders? They were not from every tribe and tongue and people and nation. But the Church is.
10. and have made
us kings and priests to our God;
and we shall reign on the earth .''
How are we kings and priests? We are joint heirs with Christ!
11. Then I looked, and I heard the voice of many angels around the throne, the living creatures,
and the elders ; and the number of them was
ten thousand times ten thousand, and thousands of thousands ,
12. saying with a loud voice: "Worthy is the Lamb who was slain to receive power and riches and wisdom, and strength and honor and glory and blessing!''
So we see the Church in Heaven WITH Christ!
The "Church" is not mentioned again until Ch.19 When we are to reign wiyh Christ.
Chapter 6 the seals are opened and the Tribulation begins.
So am I saying it's Mid Trib. NO, the Anti-christ comes into power at the beginning of the Trib. after the Rapture. Why? The Holy Spirit is removed as I stated above. also it's the perfect time to do so.
Reguarding the "First Resurrection" This STARTED with Christ and end's before "the second death" of the "Great White Throne of Judgment."
Hope this helps, I tried to tuch on the things I remember throughout the thread.
Jesus