who is the angel of the lord?

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slinky03

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who can tell me why the term "the" angel of the lord, is used only in the old testament before jesus appeared on earth, but after in the new new testament when an angel appears it is referred to "an" angel of the lord?

However, I can't seem to find the reference of "the" angel of the lord anywhere else in the new testament. Was jesus this angel or is there some scripture that says who this angel is?
 

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slinky03 said:
who can tell me why the term "the" angel of the lord, is used only in the old testament before jesus appeared on earth, but after in the new new testament when an angel appears it is referred to "an" angel of the lord?

However, I can't seem to find the reference of "the" angel of the lord anywhere else in the new testament. Was jesus this angel or is there some scripture that says who this angel is?
Read Matthew 28.
 
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If I were to take a wild guess (and I mean, really wild)... I'd say it was Gabriel. He seems to be the top-ranking angel, besides Jesus.

I think that through some Bible studies, I also learned that he was the fastest of all the angels also.
 
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tulc

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slinky03 said:
which verses

[pong]Welcome to CF slinky03! :wave:[/pong]
Matthew 28
1In the end of the sabbath, as it began to dawn toward the first day of the week, came Mary Magdalene and the other Mary to see the sepulchre.
2And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
3His countenance was like lightning, and his raiment white as snow:
4And for fear of him the keepers did shake, and became as dead men.
5And the angel answered and said unto the women, Fear not ye: for I know that ye seek Jesus, which was crucified.
6He is not here: for he is risen, as he said. Come, see the place where the Lord lay.
7And go quickly, and tell his disciples that he is risen from the dead; and, behold, he goeth before you into Galilee; there shall ye see him: lo, I have told you.
8And they departed quickly from the sepulchre with fear and great joy; and did run to bring his disciples word.
Right there! :)
tulc(loves Bible gateway, yes he does!)
 
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tulc

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Here's some:
from KJV said:
<li>Genesis 16:7
And the angel of the LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness, by the fountain in the way to Shur.
Genesis 16:9
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Return to thy mistress, and submit thyself under her hands.
Genesis 16:10
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, I will multiply thy seed exceedingly, that it shall not be numbered for multitude.
Genesis 16:11
And the angel of the LORD said unto her, Behold, thou art with child and shalt bear a son, and shalt call his name Ishmael; because the LORD hath heard thy affliction.
Genesis 22:11
And the angel of the LORD called unto him out of heaven, and said, Abraham, Abraham: and he said, Here am I.
Genesis 22:15
And the angel of the LORD called unto Abraham out of heaven the second time,
Exodus 3:2
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a flame of fire out of the midst of a bush: and he looked, and, behold, the bush burned with fire, and the bush was not consumed.
Numbers 22:22
And God's anger was kindled because he went: and the angel of the LORD stood in the way for an adversary against him. Now he was riding upon his ass, and his two servants were with him.
Numbers 22:23
And the ass saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and the ass turned aside out of the way, and went into the field: and Balaam smote the ass, to turn her into the way.
Numbers 22:24
But the angel of the LORD stood in a path of the vineyards, a wall being on this side, and a wall on that side.
Numbers 22:25
And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she thrust herself unto the wall, and crushed Balaam's foot against the wall: and he smote her again.
Numbers 22:26
And the angel of the LORD went further, and stood in a narrow place, where was no way to turn either to the right hand or to the left.
Numbers 22:27
And when the ass saw the angel of the LORD, she fell down under Balaam: and Balaam's anger was kindled, and he smote the ass with a staff.

Numbers 22:31
Then the LORD opened the eyes of Balaam, and he saw the angel of the LORD standing in the way, and his sword drawn in his hand: and he bowed down his head, and fell flat on his face.

Numbers 22:32
And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Wherefore hast thou smitten thine ass these three times? behold, I went out to withstand thee, because thy way is perverse before me:

Numbers 22:34
And Balaam said unto the angel of the LORD, I have sinned; for I knew not that thou stoodest in the way against me: now therefore, if it displease thee, I will get me back again.


Numbers 22:35
And the angel of the LORD said unto Balaam, Go with the men: but only the word that I shall speak unto thee, that thou shalt speak. So Balaam went with the princes of Balak.

Judges 2:4
And it came to pass, when the angel of the LORD spake these words unto all the children of Israel, that the people lifted up their voice, and wept.
Judges 5:23
Curse ye Meroz, said the angel of the LORD, curse ye bitterly the inhabitants thereof; because they came not to the help of the LORD, to the help of the LORD against the mighty.
Judges 6:12
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto him, and said unto him, The LORD is with thee, thou mighty man of valour.
Judges 6:21
Then the angel of the LORD put forth the end of the staff that was in his hand, and touched the flesh and the unleavened cakes; and there rose up fire out of the rock, and consumed the flesh and the unleavened cakes. Then the angel of the LORD departed out of his sight.
Judges 13:3
And the angel of the LORD appeared unto the woman, and said unto her, Behold now, thou art barren, and bearest not: but thou shalt conceive, and bear a son.
Judges 13:13
And the angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Of all that I said unto the woman let her beware.
Judges 13:15
And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, I pray thee, let us detain thee, until we shall have made ready a kid for thee.
Judges 13:16
And the angel of the LORD said unto Manoah, Though thou detain me, I will not eat of thy bread: and if thou wilt offer a burnt offering, thou must offer it unto the LORD. For Manoah knew not that he was an angel of the LORD.

Judges 13:17
And Manoah said unto the angel of the LORD, What is thy name, that when thy sayings come to pass we may do thee honour?
Judges 13:18
And the angel of the LORD said unto him, Why askest thou thus after my name, seeing it is secret?


Judges 13:20
For it came to pass, when the flame went up toward heaven from off the altar, that the angel of the LORD ascended in the flame of the altar. And Manoah and his wife looked on it, and fell on their faces to the ground.
Judges 13:21
But the angel of the LORD did no more appear to Manoah and to his wife. Then Manoah knew that he was an angel of the LORD.
2 Samuel 24:16
And when the angel stretched out his hand upon Jerusalem to destroy it, the LORD repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed the people, It is enough: stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD was by the threshingplace of Araunah the Jebusite.
1 Kings 19:7
And the angel of the LORD came again the second time, and touched him, and said, Arise and eat; because the journey is too great for thee.
2 Kings 1:3
But the angel of the LORD said to Elijah the Tishbite, Arise, go up to meet the messengers of the king of Samaria, and say unto them, Is it not because there is not a God in Israel, that ye go to enquire of Baalzebub the god of Ekron?
2 Kings 1:15
And the angel of the LORD said unto Elijah, Go down with him: be not afraid of him. And he arose, and went down with him unto the king.
2 Kings 19:35
And it came to pass that night, that the angel of the LORD went out, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians an hundred fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
1 Chronicles 21:12
Either three years' famine; or three months to be destroyed before thy foes, while that the sword of thine enemies overtaketh thee; or else three days the sword of the LORD, even the pestilence, in the land, and the angel of the LORD destroying throughout all the coasts of Israel. Now therefore advise thyself what word I shall bring again to him that sent me.
1 Chronicles 21:15
And God sent an angel unto Jerusalem to destroy it: and as he was destroying, the LORD beheld, and he repented him of the evil, and said to the angel that destroyed, It is enough, stay now thine hand. And the angel of the LORD stood by the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
1 Chronicles 21:16
And David lifted up his eyes, and saw the angel of the LORD stand between the earth and the heaven, having a drawn sword in his hand stretched out over Jerusalem. Then David and the elders of Israel, who were clothed in sackcloth, fell upon their faces.
<li>1 Chronicles 21:18
Then the angel of the LORD commanded Gad to say to David, that David should go up, and set up an altar unto the LORD in the threshingfloor of Ornan the Jebusite.
1 Chronicles 21:30
But David could not go before it to enquire of God: for he was afraid because of the sword of the angel of the LORD.
Psalm 34:7
The angel of the LORD encampeth round about them that fear him, and delivereth them.
Psalm 35:5
Let them be as chaff before the wind: and let the angel of the LORD chase them.
Psalm 35:6
Let their way be dark and slippery: and let the angel of the LORD persecute them.

Isaiah 37:36
Then the angel of the LORD went forth, and smote in the camp of the Assyrians a hundred and fourscore and five thousand: and when they arose early in the morning, behold, they were all dead corpses.
Zechariah 1:11
And they answered the angel of the LORD that stood among the myrtle trees, and said, We have walked to and fro through the earth, and, behold, all the earth sitteth still, and is at rest.
Zechariah 1:12
Then the angel of the LORD answered and said, O LORD of hosts, how long wilt thou not have mercy on Jerusalem and on the cities of Judah, against which thou hast had indignation these threescore and ten years?
Zechariah 3:1
And he shewed me Joshua the high priest standing before the angel of the LORD, and Satan standing at his right hand to resist him.
Zechariah 3:5
And I said, Let them set a fair mitre upon his head. So they set a fair mitre upon his head, and clothed him with garments. And the angel of the LORD stood by

Zechariah 3:6
And the angel of the LORD protested unto Joshua, saying,
Zechariah 12:8
In that day shall the LORD defend the inhabitants of Jerusalem; and he that is feeble among them at that day shall be as David; and the house of David shall be as God, as the angel of the LORD before them.
Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:24
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Matthew 2:13
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him.
Matthew 28:2
And, behold, there was a great earthquake: for the angel of the Lord descended from heaven, and came and rolled back the stone from the door, and sat upon it.
Luke 2:9
And, lo, the angel of the Lord came upon them, and the glory of the Lord shone round about them: and they were sore afraid.
Acts 5:19
But the angel of the Lord by night opened the prison doors, and brought them forth, and said,
Acts 8:26
And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
Acts 12:7
And, behold, the angel of the Lord came upon him, and a light shined in the prison: and he smote Peter on the side, and raised him up, saying, Arise up quickly. And his chains fell off from his hands.
Acts 12:23
And immediately the angel of the Lord smote him, because he gave not God the glory: and he was eaten of worms, and gave up the ghost.
tulc(have I told you how much I like Bible Gateway?) :)
 
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slinky03 said:
who can tell me why the term "the" angel of the lord, is used only in the old testament before jesus appeared on earth, but after in the new new testament when an angel appears it is referred to "an" angel of the lord?

However, I can't seem to find the reference of "the" angel of the lord anywhere else in the new testament. Was jesus this angel or is there some scripture that says who this angel is?

Bearing in mind that the strict [non-theological] definition of an 'angel' is one who does the bidding of another, the Biblical term 'the angel of the Lord' is a reference to a pre-incarnate theophanic manifestation of the Divine YHWH, hence "Now I know that you fear God because you have not witheld from me your son, your only son [son of the promise that is, since Ishmael was older than Isaac]" (Gen.22:12). By what authority did the angel say this unless he himself was Divine [This is why 'the Angel of the Lord' could not be any created angelic being including Michael or Gabriel]?!

The second Person of the Trinity (the Son of God) can incarnate only once. This is because, once incarnate as the Person of the Messiah, the Divine and Human Natures which make up the Messiah [the hypostatic union] can never again be separated (1Tim.2:5). It is not possible for God to take on human nature in the same way that astronauts don space-suits for the purpose of visiting outer space. Therefore, 'The Word' had to manifest himself to mankind in a different way prior to his incarnation as the Messiah. [The Messiah is the combination of both the Divine and Human Natures together into the one Person (the Hypostatic Union) and prior to their amalgamation, the Person of the Messiah (along with the human nature), unlike the Divine Nature which is Eternal, did not exist.]

For the record, references to 'angel(s) of the Lord' in the New Testament (see earlier posts above) all have an indefinite article 'an' rather than a definite one 'the' otherwise Scripture contradicts itself and God is actually a 'Quadnity' rather than a Trinity [God the Father, God the Son [a.k.a. The Messiah], God the Holy Spirit and 'God the angel of the Lord']?!

Hope this is helpful?

Simonline
 
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slinky03 said:
who can tell me why the term "the" angel of the lord, is used only in the old testament before jesus appeared on earth, but after in the new new testament when an angel appears it is referred to "an" angel of the lord?

However, I can't seem to find the reference of "the" angel of the lord anywhere else in the new testament. Was jesus this angel or is there some scripture that says who this angel is?

The angel of the Lord is Jesus.:) :wave:
 
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Wonderfulcross said:
The angel of the Lord is Jesus.:) :wave:

Yes...and no.

Jesus is the name of the Messiah who did not come into existence until the Divine Nature (the Son of God) and the Human Nature (the human Jesus) came together at the Incarnation (the Virgin Birth). The Angel of the Lord was a pre-incarnate manifestation of the second Person of the Trinity, the Son ['Word'] of God (YHWH) rather than the incarnated Messiah (Jesus).

Simonline.
 
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tulc

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Wonderfulcross said:
The angel of the Lord is Jesus.

Uhmm no not really :) :
Matthew 1:20
But while he thought on these things, behold, the angel of the LORD appeared unto him in a dream, saying, Joseph, thou son of David, fear not to take unto thee Mary thy wife: for that which is conceived in her is of the Holy Ghost.
Matthew 1:24
Then Joseph being raised from sleep did as the angel of the Lord had bidden him, and took unto him his wife:
Matthew 2:13
And when they were departed, behold, the angel of the Lord appeareth to Joseph in a dream, saying, Arise, and take the young child and his mother, and flee into Egypt, and be thou there until I bring thee word: for Herod will seek the young child to destroy him
tulc(Jesus is God, not an Angel (IMHO) ) ;)
 
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tulc said:
Uhmm no not really :) :

tulc(Jesus is God, not an Angel (IMHO) ) ;)

Then you have problems if you believe that the Messiah and the Angel of the Lord are two separate beings and that 'The Angel of the Lord' is not also part of the Divine Being (Gen.22:12)?!

Like I said earlier the strict [non-theological] definition of an 'angel' is one who [that] does the bidding of another. Therefore an angel does not have to be a created being. By doing the will of his Father, the Messiah (as the Son of God) is God's 'Angel' (i.e. THE Angel of the Lord) as distinct from all the created angelic beings including Michael and Gabriel (Heb.1)

Therefore, if this is true then The Angel of the Lord and the Messiah CANNOT be separate entities.

The problem comes with people thinking that only the myriad of created beings (specifically created to do God's bidding, hence the term 'angels') are actually angels. Angelic beings are not angels because they are angels. They are angels because they do the bidding of another (namely God). In the same way other beings can also be angels (e.g. sheep dogs for shepherds). The term 'angel' has a much broader application than simply the thing we sit on top of our Christmas tree each year.

Simonline.
 
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Simonline said:
Then you have problems if you believe that the Messiah and the Angel of the Lord are two separate beings and that 'the Angel of the Lord' is not also part of the Divine Being (Gen.22:12)?!


KJV said:
Genesis 22: 12
12And he said, Lay not thine hand upon the lad, neither do thou any thing unto him: for now I know that thou fearest God, seeing thou hast not withheld thy son, thine only son from me.
uhmm sorry, I'm not seeing it.
tulc(wanna help me out?)
 
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tulc said:
uhmm sorry, I'm not seeing it.
tulc(wanna help me out?)

If 'The Angel of the Lord' was not also Divine (i.e. a part of the Godhead, one of the three Persons of the Trinity) then by what authority did the angel say to Abraham "Now I know that you fear God because you have not witheld from me your son, your only son." (Gen.22:12)?! (cf Gen.16:7-14)

The point that I am making is that the Word of God, the Son of God and the Angel of the Lord are all one and the same Person. The Angel of the Lord (unlike all the rest of the angels (Heb.1)) is not a created being but actually one of the Persons of the Trinity (and therefore Divine).

Simonline.
 
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tulc

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So every time the Scripture says: "The angel of the Lord" (which isn't capitalized by the way) it's talking about a Christophany? :scratch: But then don't you have Jesus announcing His own birth? While being in His mothers womb?
tulc(who is having a great day!) :)
 
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tulc said:
So every time the Scripture says: "The angel of the Lord" (which isn't capitalized by the way) it's talking about a Christophany? :scratch: But then don't you have Jesus announcing His own birth? While being in His mothers womb?
tulc(who is having a great day!) :)

No, every time the Scripture says: "The angel of the Lord" it's talking about a Theophany (since the Christ/Messiah did not exist until the incarnation - see my earlier posts on this thread for an explanation of what I mean by this). This is because, since the incarnation, there has never been another 'pre-incarnate' theophanic manifestation of the Son/Word of God/angel of the Lord, since the incarnation of the Divine has rendered all such ['pre-incarnate'] manifestations obsolete (Heb.1:1).

Simonline.
 
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:help: Thank's Tulk...Thank's Simonline.... But when another religous belief throws this little difference at you and you know that you believe in the Bible as being all truth....every word ,this kind of thing can cause doubt in some ones mind , not me ! But i cant understand why somthing like this dosnt remain the same in all KJV... NKJV . This sort of thing gives fuel to those who believe in the word as being corrupted by man and that Jesus was at one time an angel.
 
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