StandForTruth

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Is anyone else a fan of the king of genres?

I listen to a lot of death metal, as well as a bit of black (real black metal, not the garbage that gets passed off for black metal too often) and thrash. Behemoth owneth.
And on a similar note, anyone looking forward to Cryptopsy's new album? Should be great, I think.
 

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StandForTruth said:
Is anyone else a fan of the king of genres?

I listen to a lot of death metal, as well as a bit of black (real black metal, not the garbage that gets passed off for black metal too often) and thrash. Behemoth owneth.
And on a similar note, anyone looking forward to Cryptopsy's new album? Should be great, I think.
I AM metal.

However, I am quite older than you, and hence my tastes in what constitutes metal and what doesn't is probably a lot more diverse than yours. I've been into it since the 70's.

I also tend to refrain from metal with overtly corny (eg. Satanic) lyrics or image. It makes a mockery of the genre in my opinion, but that's just my opinion.
 
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StandForTruth

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pete5 said:
I find lots of metal bands follows a fairly restricted theme, but there are a few with somre really great diversity, like Virgin Black

Define "restricted theme".. metal seems to me to be one of the genres with the most variety within a bands sound, in general, though as always there are exceptions.

Axver said:
Recommend some good metal to me.

The aforementioned Behemoth and Cryptopsy..
Vader
Suffocation
Demilich
The Chasm
Monstrosity
Fleshcrawl
Immolation
Carcass
Pig Destroyer
Impaled
Goatwhore
Limbonic Art
Spear Of Longinus
Mayhem
Amon Amarth
Bathory
Einherjer
Mourning Beloveth
Anathema
My Dying Bride
Blind Guardian
Jag Panzer
Destroyer 666
Dark Angel
Kreator
Vio-lence

Should be a good cross-section of the more popular subgenres.

Fiskare said:
I AM metal.

However, I am quite older than you, and hence my tastes in what constitutes metal and what doesn't is probably a lot more diverse than yours. I've been into it since the 70's.

I also tend to refrain from metal with overtly corny (eg. Satanic) lyrics or image. It makes a mockery of the genre in my opinion, but that's just my opinion.

Doubtful, unless you are saying you consider [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] rock to be metal.

And, eh.. "satanic" lyrics are only corny if they are badly done. I have learned alot about my own beliefs from anti-religious lyrics.. well thought out ones, not garbage like Deicide.. probably because I could see myself writing them in different circumstances, I think.
 
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Fiskare

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StandForTruth said:
Destroyer 666
Personally knowing the guitarist of this band makes me wanna laugh when I see people honestly take this stuff seriously. He's a real.....umm.....well, I can't say here. Loser I think I can say.

Doubtful, unless you are saying you consider [bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse] rock to be metal.
Can you say those words in this forum?

Anyway I'm not sure I can agree with you on that either- Depends on how you define it.

And, eh.. "satanic" lyrics are only corny if they are badly done. I have learned alot about my own beliefs from anti-religious lyrics.. well thought out ones, not garbage like Deicide.. probably because I could see myself writing them in different circumstances, I think.
Fair enough. Personally, I think it's a gimmick (record companies do care about image, believe me) and I'm saddened to hear people form their own beliefs from guys with a microphone and a record deal.

I prefer independant critical thought myself.
 
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StandForTruth

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Fiskare said:
Personally knowing the guitarist of this band makes me wanna laugh when I see people honestly take this stuff seriously. He's a real.....umm.....well, I can't say here. Loser I think I can say.

Perhaps. However, not knowing the band I can simply enjoy their music, which is fantastic.

Fiskare said:
Anyway I'm not sure I can agree with you on that either- Depends on how you define it.

Glam.

Fiskare said:
Fair enough. Personally, I think it's a gimmick (record companies do care about image, believe me)

Of course they do, but that is beside the point.. that is the record companies caring, not the bands themselves. As far as image goes, bands like Grand Belial's Key or Spear of Longinus would probably play shows in their pajamas if for some reason it were necessary.

Fiskare said:
and I'm saddened to hear people form their own beliefs from guys with a microphone and a record deal.

I prefer independant critical thought myself.

As do I. I don't "lift" beliefs from lyrics, ever.. but at least a few years ago, before I was particularly strong in my faith, I spent a lot of time playing the game of "why don't I believe this." At the time I would have been eaten alive in a debate by an intelligent atheist or satanist, this was extremely helpful.
 
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Fiskare

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StandForTruth said:
Perhaps. However, not knowing the band I can simply enjoy their music, which is fantastic.
They played the other night nearby in a what was called a "Satanic Warfare anti-Christmas" gig. I heard they sucked. With such a corn ball "event" name they deserved to suck. I heard local lads Hobb's Angel of Death blew them away.

I really disrespect this band, the unoriginally named "KK Warsl**" and his former offsider "bullet eater" and I have had "words" and they are basically a couple of blouses and wimps as far as I am concerned. They physically attacked a handicapped friend of mine at a gig. They were sorry. heheh. It was a long, long time ago though. Pre-Destroyer days, when they were with the riduculously named "inappropriate behavior with animals Warlust", the going joke in the Melbourne Metal scene.
Depends on how you define "glam". "Glam rock" used to be stuff like Gary Glitter and T-Rex, not metal at all. Later some glam was metal when you were not yet born perhaps. I remember when bands that were "glam" were basically holding the fort for hard rock sales in the mainstream while the heavier stuff was rallying for a new assault that came with the advent of the 90's.

Of course they do, but that is beside the point.. that is the record companies caring, not the bands themselves. As far as image goes, bands like Grand Belial's Key or Spear of Longinus would probably play shows in their pajamas if for some reason it were necessary.
True, but would they stay signed? I don't think so. Just look at Marcus Stieger's purge of his Nuclear Blast label recently. He dropped just about everyone good that he had for one big contract with, gasp!, ManOWar! Image= sales. Sales= stay in business.

As do I. I don't "lift" beliefs from lyrics, ever.. but at least a few years ago, before I was particularly strong in my faith, I spent a lot of time playing the game of "why don't I believe this." At the time I would have been eaten alive in a debate by an intelligent atheist or satanist, this was extremely helpful.
Yes, that's a good thing too. I knew this guy, and I have to be careful here, who had a leading Christian metal band some time ago. He was ordained as well. Anyway, he left the faith and became a Satanist/Atheist. This alone reminded me of the importance of having a strong faith before anything else. Influences can happen from any source, and I think it's important to keep the sources of light as strong as possible. This is one reason I gave up the corny Satanic bands shortly after my conversion some years ago. I cannot stomach their sales pitch, and I won't support their ministry with my money. Frankly, they're old hat and boring. Thank goodness they are dying off again.

Have you seen the excellent German documentary "Visions of Death"? It was filmed around the time of the whole Euronymous thing. It interviewed the death and black metal bands and also the Satanic priests that used them to spread their word. Quite astounding. The biggest idiot on the video was of course Glen Benton.
 
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StandForTruth

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Fiskare said:
I really disrespect this band, the unoriginally named "KK Warsl**" and his former offsider "bullet eater" and I have had "words" and they are basically a couple of blouses and wimps as far as I am concerned. They physically attacked a handicapped friend of mine at a gig. They were sorry. heheh. It was a long, long time ago though. Pre-Destroyer days, when they were with the riduculously named "inappropriate behavior with animals Warlust", the going joke in the Melbourne Metal scene.

Badmouth them if you like. As I said, I do not know them personally and have never seen them live, so my opinion of them is based solely on their music.. which absolutely slays.

Eh, every band sucks when they are starting out. And Bestial Warlust is a far sight better then a lot of other band names.. (*cough* Goatpenis, I am looking at YOU)

Fiskare said:
Depends on how you define "glam". "Glam rock" used to be stuff like Gary Glitter and T-Rex, not metal at all. Later some glam was metal when you were not yet born perhaps. I remember when bands that were "glam" were basically holding the fort for hard rock sales in the mainstream while the heavier stuff was rallying for a new assault that came with the advent of the 90's.

I was referring specifically to the glam that gets confused with metal.. Twisted Sister, Motley Crue and such.

Fiskare said:
True, but would they stay signed? I don't think so. Just look at Marcus Stieger's purge of his Nuclear Blast label recently. He dropped just about everyone good that he had for one big contract with, gasp!, ManOWar! Image= sales. Sales= stay in business.

Perhaps, but you have to consider that most underground black metal/NSBM labels are not making money anyway. The mainstream metal labels suck, I will agree, but as a general rule they only have a couple of good bands anyway and then a whole bunch of clones. That is why they are mainstream.

But, basically, I care about the band, not about how the label decides to use them for sales. I end up downloading most of my obscure stuff anyway, and use the money I save on shows when possible.

Fiskare said:
Yes, that's a good thing too. I knew this guy, and I have to be careful here, who had a leading Christian metal band some time ago. He was ordained as well. Anyway, he left the faith and became a Satanist/Atheist. This alone reminded me of the importance of having a strong faith before anything else. Influences can happen from any source, and I think it's important to keep the sources of light as strong as possible. This is one reason I gave up the corny Satanic bands shortly after my conversion some years ago. I cannot stomach their sales pitch, and I won't support their ministry with my money. Frankly, they're old hat and boring. Thank goodness they are dying off again.

Well. I know exactly what I believe about the various points of views of satanism, and in a large part because of exposure to it through metal/metalheads. So as far as my case is concerned "satanic" lyrics have been an influence, yes, but a positive one.

Well. I am not particularly a fan of the bands that do use "satanism" as a sales pitch.. but those tend to have [feces, censorship sucks] for music, anyway, and music is how I grade.

I have no problem with listening to bands that are honest about antichristianity (as opposed to using it as a sales pitch, as you put it) I refuse to deprive myself of good music simply because my personal beliefs differ with the lyrics.

Fiskare said:
Have you seen the excellent German documentary "Visions of Death"? It was filmed around the time of the whole Euronymous thing. It interviewed the death and black metal bands and also the Satanic priests that used them to spread their word. Quite astounding. The biggest idiot on the video was of course Glen Benton.

Glen Benton is the biggest idiot wherever he goes.

But more seriously, no I have not seen it. Not sure exactly what you mean by "satanic priests", though..
 
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StandForTruth said:
Badmouth them if you like. As I said, I do not know them personally and have never seen them live, so my opinion of them is based solely on their music.. which absolutely slays.
Well, eventually everyone must make their own decision on which side of the battle they want to be.

Eh, every band sucks when they are starting out. And Bestial Warlust is a far sight better then a lot of other band names.. (*cough* Goatpenis, I am looking at YOU)
Well, Destroyer 666 has got to be one of the silliest names too.

There is a great list of the worst names in Rock history here. Hilarious.

I was referring specifically to the glam that gets confused with metal.. Twisted Sister, Motley Crue and such.
..but in their time, they were considered metal. I can remember when magazines used to say Led Zeppelin were metal. That's why in my initial post I said I had a broad definition. I've seen them all. My favorite band was cited in the old "Encylopedia of Rock" (Published in the mid 70's) as the "foremost exponent of US hevay metal", and by today's standards you would call them heavy rock or something like that. I have old mags of Creem and so forth that listed "the best in Metal" as bands such as Rush, Boston, Nazareth and so forth. In other words, for their time, they were metal. We all agreed. Metal's sound changed, that's all, but it's still the heavier side of rock.

Switch to today" lots of these bands are no longer considered "metal" by the younger crowd, but us oldies think they mark a different sound of metallic history. So, for me at least, the label stays.

Perhaps, but you have to consider that most underground black metal/NSBM labels are not making money anyway. The mainstream metal labels suck, I will agree, but as a general rule they only have a couple of good bands anyway and then a whole bunch of clones. That is why they are mainstream.
I can agree with that. Trying to find labels with integrity is pretty tough these days. That's why so many bands release their own stuff indepenantly.

But, basically, I care about the band, not about how the label decides to use them for sales. I end up downloading most of my obscure stuff anyway, and use the money I save on shows when possible.
Well, although I don't download too much, I can appreciate your point. Most of the bands I like don't seem too hung up on image and thank goodness neither do their labels.

Well. I know exactly what I believe about the various points of views of satanism, and in a large part because of exposure to it through metal/metalheads. So as far as my case is concerned "satanic" lyrics have been an influence, yes, but a positive one.
OK....

Well. I am not particularly a fan of the bands that do use "satanism" as a sales pitch.. but those tend to have [feces, censorship sucks] for music, anyway, and music is how I grade.
Absolutely right.

I have no problem with listening to bands that are honest about antichristianity (as opposed to using it as a sales pitch, as you put it) I refuse to deprive myself of good music simply because my personal beliefs differ with the lyrics.
To some degree I think that is ok, but sometimes you have to stop supporting their message.

Glen Benton is the biggest idiot wherever he goes.
Correct.

But more seriously, no I have not seen it. Not sure exactly what you mean by "satanic priests", though..
The video is quite an eye opener, and quite insightful. By "Satanic Priests" I mean those who are leading the various covens and circles in Europe that these bands are influenced by or members of. (As you know, depending on the brand of Satanism, they can be called various names) These people are interviewed on the video and make it absolutely clear that this music is one vehicle they use to get their message across. (BTW- the video has no religious affiliation either) Makes you think. Some bands are the equivalent of Stryper for the bad guys!
 
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mrslinky said:
Im sorry. Heavy Metal is lame and no amount of justification is going to convince me that this noise is worth my time. It is so corny and campy!
I can't tell whether your nick is Mrs.linky or MR.slinky. Gathering from your taste in music, I'll go for the former. :D j/k.

ManOWar put out a famous song once, (the penultimate corn ball lyric band) and once verse touted "if you don't like metal, then you are not my friend". Makes sense to me. LOL :D

Now depart from this thread ye cursed, into the everlasting lake of rap and country, prepared for Dick Clarke and his minions! :p
 
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They played the other night nearby in a what was called a "Satanic Warfare anti-Christmas" gig

LOL. Well... from a name like that I won't even loose my time to listen :D
Personally, bands trying to look "evil" or those who seems to have a compulsion of saying "666" or "Hail satan" in every phrases (There are plenty of them) or those seeming to suffer from a Gille de la Tourette symdrome, sounds more silly and pathetic to me than anything else.

My favorite metal band is Opeth. Good stuff.

Yes. Talk about that. Opeth is very good stuff.

I love metal but a different type I guess.... I suggest to everyone to try bands like Sirius, Tidfall, Siebenburgen... I just love Sirius - wonderful and powerful lyrics and amazing music (simply my tastes). I also enjoy Legenda and Ewigkeit for "softer" stuffs (it might still be considered as 'noise' to those who hate metal).

God bless,
~S
 
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StandForTruth

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Fiskare said:
Well, eventually everyone must make their own decision on which side of the battle they want to be.

Indeed. But overall, songs about war, the glory of battle, and their flawed understanding of Christianity are not particularly threatening to me.

fiskare said:
Well, Destroyer 666 has got to be one of the silliest names too.

Would have much more of a ring to it if they dropped the 666, for sure.

Fiskare said:
There is a great list of the worst names in Rock history here. Hilarious.

Lame. They didn't even mention Impaled Northern Moon Forest..

Fiskare said:
..but in their time, they were considered metal. I can remember when magazines used to say Led Zeppelin were metal. That's why in my initial post I said I had a broad definition. I've seen them all. My favorite band was cited in the old "Encylopedia of Rock" (Published in the mid 70's) as the "foremost exponent of US hevay metal", and by today's standards you would call them heavy rock or something like that. I have old mags of Creem and so forth that listed "the best in Metal" as bands such as Rush, Boston, Nazareth and so forth. In other words, for their time, they were metal. We all agreed. Metal's sound changed, that's all, but it's still the heavier side of rock.

Switch to today" lots of these bands are no longer considered "metal" by the younger crowd, but us oldies think they mark a different sound of metallic history. So, for me at least, the label stays.

I am a bit of a platonist, I suppose, with regards to metal. Metal is an absolute, and there is metal, regardless what at any given time people might mistakenly call "metal."

Fiskare said:
To some degree I think that is ok, but sometimes you have to stop supporting their message.

What message is it that you seem to consider so important not to "support"?

Fiskare said:
The video is quite an eye opener, and quite insightful. By "Satanic Priests" I mean those who are leading the various covens and circles in Europe that these bands are influenced by or members of. (As you know, depending on the brand of Satanism, they can be called various names) These people are interviewed on the video and make it absolutely clear that this music is one vehicle they use to get their message across. (BTW- the video has no religious affiliation either) Makes you think. Some bands are the equivalent of Stryper for the bad guys!

Heh. Are they, necessarily?

Stryper for the "bad guys"? Hmm. You mean pathetic, untalented pseudo-metal bands whose only purpose is to be as annoying as possible while spreading their "message"? Highly doubt such bands get taken seriously within metal, much less outside of it. Hell, even Burzum is quite good musically, for all of its simplicity/minimalism.

Regardless, early Norwegian black metal is an exception as they took their professed beliefs to ridiculous extremes. I suppose it could be worse though.. the early goregrind scene might have taken themselves as seriously.

mrslinky said:
Im sorry. Heavy Metal is lame and no amount of justification is going to convince me that this noise is worth my time. It is so corny and campy!

Ahh. Neat. Someone who has never listened to any metal, but thinks he is qualified to discuss it after hearing bad rock bands calling themselves "metal". Just what we needed.
 
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StandForTruth said:
Indeed. But overall, songs about war, the glory of battle, and their flawed understanding of Christianity are not particularly threatening to me.
Nor to me.

Would have much more of a ring to it if they dropped the 666, for sure.
Sound too much like Destruction then.

Lame. They didn't even mention Impaled Northern Moon Forest..
Send it in. They will include it. If you've got some more, they'd be welcome.

I am a bit of a platonist, I suppose, with regards to metal. Metal is an absolute, and there is metal, regardless what at any given time people might mistakenly call "metal."
Then you find yourself in a philosophical quandry. When did true metal first start, and what was the first true metal song? Music is a progressive continuum. All the "true metal" bands are just amplified rip offs of older bands to some degree. I mean all the Black Metallers are just overblown clones of Venom, who were trying their darndest to sound like a Satanic version of Motorhead. Motorhead were of course were just amplified rock n' roll.

It's all a continuum.

What message is it that you seem to consider so important not to "support"?
Anything that destroys or undermines faith.

Sanctification sometimes entails the mortification of our earthly pleasures. Sometimes it's our music that needs to die to the Lord.

Stryper for the "bad guys"? Hmm. You mean pathetic, untalented pseudo-metal bands whose only purpose is to be as annoying as possible while spreading their "message"? Highly doubt such bands get taken seriously within metal, much less outside of it. Hell, even Burzum is quite good musically, for all of its simplicity/minimalism.
Well, as a musician of many years now, I can honestly say that the whole black/death/extreme metal scene is the one that lacks talent, vision, creativity and life, it's so easy to copy and play. Lyrically it's very bland and banal. (That's why it is dying. It will die completely except for a few good stalwart bands, and then in about ten years it will come back. Always has, always will.) Although what you call "pseudo metal" may not always be the best example of those great virtues either, at least there's room to move without some fickle poseur fan base carrying on like ManoWar with cries of "death to false metal".

I doubt Immortal or Deicide will ever reach the musical heights of Meshuggah or Dream Theatre, for example.

Regardless, early Norwegian black metal is an exception as they took their professed beliefs to ridiculous extremes. I suppose it could be worse though.. the early goregrind scene might have taken themselves as seriously.
Half the problem with the whole Black Metal scene is that they do take themselves too seriously, they're basically a self parody and they don't even realise it.
 
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Fiskare said:
I can't tell whether your nick is Mrs.linky or MR.slinky. Gathering from your taste in music, I'll go for the former. :D j/k.

LOL, my wife passed by the monitor when I was reading that post, and said the same thing that we were thinking. Ahhh..good times.
Anyway, why was he even in here if he refuses to appreciate the legit genre of Metal. Some people.
I kind of phased out Metal sometime around '92 cause I was tired of the innundation of evil and negativity that went hand in hand with it. Then a few years later I discovered that the Christian Metal had made leaps and bounds since Stryper (metal?) so I have since dived headlong back into it. I dont know much about the secular end anymore, and I cannot keep up with all the sub-genre's they have tagged on these bands. But I know what I like, and the picking is good.
 
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