Ezekiel 38 is over 1,000 years away

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Colossians

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It would have enlightened most of you to visit a Siberian concentration camp where Russians were held because of their faith in Christ.
Perhaps as you witnessed the contortion of their facial muscles as they tried to get their head around your telling them that Christ was coming back before the tribulation, you might have re-thought your position.

Equally so if you had had the opportunity to sprout your strange doctrine in Rome, to the Christians in the mouths of Nero's lions.
 
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Wills

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Colossians said:
It would have enlightened most of you to visit a Siberian concentration camp where Russians were held because of their faith in Christ.
Perhaps as you witnessed the contortion of their facial muscles as they tried to get their head around your telling them that Christ was coming back before the tribulation, you might have re-thought your position.

Equally so if you had had the opportunity to sprout your strange doctrine in Rome, to the Christians in the mouths of Nero's lions.


We all agree that Russia and the erstwhile USSR, oppressed people living within the republics.

That does not change the fact that Israel has a very strong army and air force and a surprise

attack is not likely from Russia unless it was evident that Israel was about to destroy the arabs and in that case not only Russia but the US would also get involved.

What did you disagree with that made you refer to Siberia.. (not the issue here)?

Of course, whether Israel fits the Ezekiel scenario is also another point altogether.
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi Ikster

Still looking for an answer .

Has the 1,000 years happened yet?????????

Not only have the Baptist's kept some of the Lies of the harlot they have created sme new lies all of their own.

I need to clarify something with you so I can make sure we are on the same ground here.

You know the Nicene Creed I am sure.

Where the men who met a Nicaea led by the Spirit in their Council?
 
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rollinTHUNDER

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Just The Facts said:
Hi

It is believed by many that Ezekiel 37 is modern Israel and that soon Gog and Magog (ezekiel 38) is soon to surround Jerusalem.

however this is impossible (unles you are a post millennialist ) for gog and Magog come after the 1,000 years of peace and since that has not yet happened gog and Magog must be over 1,000 years away.

7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison, 8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

It is this false doctrine that Ezekiel 38 is just around the Corner that will allow the AC to fool Christianity that he is Jesus returned.

look at how God destroys the armies of MaGog (still over 1,000 years away)

22: And I will plead against him with pestilence and with blood; and I will rain upon him, and upon his bands, and upon the many people that are with him, an overflowing rain, and great hailstones, fire, and brimstone.

He destroys the armies that have come against Jerusalem with Fire from heaven.

Now look at the miracle that is performed to deceive mankind into excepting the AC as Jesus returned.

13: And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men, 14: And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast

Yes the Ac will destroy the Armies that surround Jerusalem with Fire from Heaven and by this miracle which the False prophet says is Ezekiel 38 and Rev 20 Fulfilled he deceives Christianity into believing he is Jesus returned.

Will you be deceived?

Hello Just the Facts,
It seems as though you must believe that Gog is a man. I get the sense that Gog is not a man. Gog is shown to be the chief prince, or leader. I believe that Gog is an angel on the evil side. An Angel of darkness. I believe this angel has charge of the North territory. Just as Michael is the prince who protects Gods people. An Angel of light, who protects the children of light. Remember, Satan was removed from his high position..............................Ephes. 6:12 says, "For our struggle is not against flesh and blood, but against the rulers, against the authorities, against the powers of this dark world, and against the spiritual forces of evil in the heavenly realms."..................................................Daniel 12:1 says "At that time Michael, the great prince who protects your people, will arise. There will be a time of DISTRESS such has not happened from the beginning of nations until then. But at that time your people- everyone whose name is found written in the book-will be delivered.". Folks, I believe that this distress mentioned here, began when the Nations started choosing sides on this war against terrorism. This is only the beginning of that distress, it will get worse.

Plenty of differences between the war of Ezekiel 38 and the war of Armageddon. I believe that Ezekiel 38 mostly talks about a war that will happen before the tribulation, but it also briefly mentions the one that will come later, Armageddon, that will take place in the second half of the tribulation, but there are clearly some major differences. I will tackle some of them here now.

POINT ONE - In Ezekiel - there are definite allies mentioned and they are limited in number, while other nations stand in opposition. But, in Armageddon- All nations are allied together against Jerusalem without exception.

POINT TWO - In Ezekiel - the invasion comes from the north. But, in Armageddon - the invasion comes from the whole earth.

POINT THREE - In Ezekiel - the purpose of the Russian invasion is to take a spoil or rob them. But, in Armageddon - the purpose will be to destroy ALL the jews.

POINT FOUR - In Ezekiel - there is a protest against the invasion. But, in Armageddon - there is NO protest, because ALL nations are coming against Israel.

POINT FIVE - In Ezekiel - the invasion is stopped by the convulsions of Nature. But, the Armageddon invasion is stopped by the second coming of Christ.

POINT SIX - In Ezekiel - the invasion is stopped on the mountains of Israel. But, in Armageddon - the invasion is stopped in the area between Petra and Jerusalem.

POINT SEVEN - In Ezekiel - the invasion takes place while Israel is living securely in the land. But, in Armageddon the invasion takes place while Israel is in flight, or in hiding after the Abomination that causes Desolation.

These seven points of difference are why I believe that the rapture will happen first, then Russia will have a short period of time to attack with the Arabs. But it is clearly a different war than Armageddon. I believe that Armageddon is only briefly mentioned in Ezekiel 38, as a dual fulfillment prophecy:
Ezekiel 38 : 8 - After many days you will be called to arms (the hook in her jaw). In future years you will invade a land that has recovered from war, whose people were gathered from many nations to the mountains of Israel, which had long been desolate. They had been brought out from the nations, and now all of them live in safety. (safety=peace) = 1st half of tribulation. (emphasis added)

If Gog is not human, which I don't believe he is, then Ezekiel 38 can be just around the corner, and I believe it is. Good day! :wave:
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi Rollin

yes they are different Battles. But Gog and MAgog do not happen before tribulation they happen

7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

So let me ask you the same question

HAS THE 1,000 Years of Peace happened yet?

4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Has the 1,000 years of Peace happened Yet?

It really is a very simple question.
 
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ikester

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Just The Facts said:
Hi Ikster

Still looking for an answer .

Has the 1,000 years happened yet?????????

Not only have the Baptist's kept some of the Lies of the harlot they have created sme new lies all of their own.

I need to clarify something with you so I can make sure we are on the same ground here.

You know the Nicene Creed I am sure.

Where the men who met a Nicaea led by the Spirit in their Council?

JTF....no.. the 1000 years has not happened....

were the men at Nicaea led by the spirit.....can't answer that......but please proceed with your examples of false doctrines...
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi ikster

Well The Baptists teach the Nicene creed as inspired.

Or do they ask everyone to learn and believe the Doctrine of Men.

Where the men who created the Nicene Creed the Inspired by the Spirit or Not.

Once again a simple question.

if you say No then I would say we have a candidate for False Doctrine right here because if it is not inspired then Why make everyone remember it and teach it as gospel.

Now before everyone goes and assigns me an anti Nicene position please understand I am only trying to find out what ikster thinks.
 
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ikester

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Just The Facts said:
Hi ikster

Well The Baptists teach the Nicene creed as inspired.

Or do they ask everyone to learn and believe the Doctrine of Men.

Where the men who created the Nicene Creed the Inspired by the Spirit or Not.

Once again a simple question.

if you say No then I would say we have a candidate for False Doctrine right here because if it is not inspired then Why make everyone remember it and teach it as gospel.

Now before everyone goes and assigns me an anti Nicene position please understand I am only trying to find out what ikster thinks.
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi ikster

I do not know if it was your intent just to quote me and say nothing or if things got messed up.

Can we agree that a Doctrine of the harlot is any teaching that is not True………………. that is a Lie coming from the Father of Lies.

Would you agree with that statement.
 
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ikester

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Just The Facts said:
Hi ikster

Well The Baptists teach the Nicene creed as inspired.

Or do they ask everyone to learn and believe the Doctrine of Men.

Where the men who created the Nicene Creed the Inspired by the Spirit or Not.

Once again a simple question.

if you say No then I would say we have a candidate for False Doctrine right here because if it is not inspired then Why make everyone remember it and teach it as gospel.

Now before everyone goes and assigns me an anti Nicene position please understand I am only trying to find out what ikster thinks.

personally JTF....I've never been taught to learn or believe the Nicene Creed by a certain denomination...just to believe in Jesus and accept him in your heart as your personal lord and savior....now where do find false doctrine related to endtime prophecy...rather than a difference of what you read and understand...and as to what I read and understand....
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi ikster

So if the 1,000 years has not happened how can Gog be just around the corner.

7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

It must be over 1,000 years away.

More over if Modern Israel is Ezekiel 38: what about the villages without walls that is not modern Israel and to suggest the AC will take all that away is no where in scripture. the False Peace of the AC is he convinces everyone the 1,000 years of PEACE has begun. However by then Israel and Jerusalem will be in ashes he will rebuild it claiming it is Holy Jerusalem out of Heaven.
 
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ikester

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Just The Facts said:
Hi ikster

So if the 1,000 years has not happened how can Gog be just around the corner.

7: And when the thousand years are expired, Satan shall be loosed out of his prison,8: And shall go out to deceive the nations which are in the four quarters of the earth, Gog and Magog, to gather them together to battle: the number of whom is as the sand of the sea.

It must be over 1,000 years away.

More over if Modern Israel is Ezekiel 38: what about the villages without walls that is not modern Israel and to suggest the AC will take all that away is no where in scripture. the False Peace of the AC is he convinces everyone the 1,000 years of PEACE has begun. However by then Israel and Jerusalem will be in ashes he will rebuild it claiming it is Holy Jerusalem out of Heaven.

something messed up with that earlier post.....anyway...Eze...gives us names of the nations involved with this war...God gives the world a sign that he is...by unbelievers that will in turn believe...when he does destroy these armies....Rev...states...the four corners of the earth will gather at the end of 1000 years..for this final uprising.....

and yes satan can mix lies with truth for deception....so you contend the catholic church is the harlot....which I won't argue.....but what are the false doctrines that catholics and baptist have in common...
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi Ikster

you seem to be missing the point Ezekiel 38 is Gog and Magog but Rev makes it clear that that does not happen until after the 1,000 years of Peace and since we both agree that has not happened then Ez 38 must be over 1,000 years away. To teach it is just about to happen is a false teaching the bible is very clear when the 1,000 years have expired.

To try and suggest that they are two different events is just not true Ez 37 and 38 is Revelation 20: The resurrection ( ez 37 ) and the 1,000 years followed by Gog (Ez 38).


lies or Myths taught as Truth.

Friday crucified Sunday Risen is a lie it is a myth based on the False God Tammuz who died on Friday and was brought back to life after 40 days. (40 days of Lent sound familiar)

Ezek:8:14: Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

Jesus was crucified Wednesday Afternoon at 3:00 pm which was on Passover it is the only way he could be in the ground ...........three days .........................and Three Nights.........................nothing else works because he was already Risen by Sunday Morning.

This is a Lie it is a Myth and it is taught as Gospel truth. It is not it is a lie.

now this is a very small thing in my eyes but it is still a myth a lie Christianity wandered into many centuries ago.

[3] For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, [4] and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.

That time came and went in the Fourth century and Christianity never recovered so that today Christianity teaches Myths and Lies as the Truth.

I can give many more examples that go far deeper into the core of what is wrong with Christianity in God's eyes.
 
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Hitch

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Ezek 39:9-11
9 And they that dwell in the cities of Israel shall go forth, and shall set on fire and burn the weapons, both the shields and the bucklers, the bows and the arrows, and the handstaves, and the spears, and they shall burn them with fire seven years:
10 So that they shall take no wood out of the field, neither cut down any out of the forests; for they shall burn the weapons with fire: and they shall spoil those that spoiled them, and rob those that robbed them, saith the Lord GOD.
11 And it shall come to pass in that day, that I will give unto Gog a place there of graves in Israel, the valley of the passengers on the east of the sea: and it shall stop the noses of the passengers: and there shall they bury Gog and all his multitude: and they shall call it The valley of Hamongog.
(KJV)

Hmmmm the problems associated with literalism are obvious enough. On a more literary line its also evident that GOG has been dealt with . How burried can ya get? And his whole gang too.

And that is said to happpen in a time associated with the return from Babylon.


Ezek 39:27
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
(KJV)

Since Ezy speaks while the Nation is in Babylon, its obviious returning from their comtemporary exile is what he is preaching about.

Take care

Hitch
 
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Hitch

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Just The Facts said:
Hi Hitch

are you saying that Gog came at the end of the First deportation?
Of course.
i think I am missing something to back this up? like scripture history so forth and so on.
Well I quoted from Ezy. And the Nation was in exile at the time Ezy spoke. And the Nation returned after that time.

That GOG ws utterly destroyed is beyond question, he was burried with his gang of bandits just aS 39;11 STATES.


Right here in 39 the writer is speaking of what if not the Babylonian captivty?

Ezek 39:23
23 And the heathen shall know that the house of Israel went into captivity for their iniquity: because they trespassed against me, therefore hid I my face from them, and gave them into the hand of their enemies: so fell they all by the sword.
(KJV)

And so what is it they are being returned from here?


Ezek 39:27
27 When I have brought them again from the people, and gathered them out of their enemies' lands, and am sanctified in them in the sight of many nations;
(KJV)


If not that same captivity mentioned just a few lines before?

Obviously it speaks of a future event,from the writers perspective. Well the next big thing that happened to Israel was the return of the remenant. In the chronology of 39 Gog is destroyed in that day when people dwell in the cities of Israel. Which must be after the return.

The point I m after here is that GOG of Ezy's book and the Apocalypse cannot be directly (literaly) transposed with one another. They dont match. There is no more a literal possiblitly here than the seven year fire. Bows and arrows are not nukes and missles.

That GOG may have existed as an actual entity, whether person ,people etc, doesnt matter. Its use here and in the Apocalypse is that of a literary device. Thats why my first comment was about literalism.

There is no real standard of applicable literalism to get Ezy 38;39 into modern history. You will never get past the bows and arrows. If your literalism breaks here how can you decide on reliable standard? If bows&arrows is a generalized reference to weapons of war then can the 'seven years' be held to a strictly literal frame of refernce? How? Why?

Take care

Hitch
 
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Just The Facts

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Hi

hitch

I understand the bows and Arrows thing I point that out to those who say that Armageddon is the Battle of Gog.

I see this as Different I see Ezekiel 39 as being after the 1,000 years of peace gog and Magog will come against Holy Jerusalem.

Ez 37 is the First Resurrection and 38 is 1,000 years later

I believe that things will change dramatically between now and then. Jesus will destroy all the weapons and the nations will build no more.

When jesus returns he does away with the knowledge taught to mankind by the Fallen Angels.

4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

It is this verse above among others that has me convinced that the Spiritual fulfilment of the 1,000 years is not true the 1,000 years has not yet happened.

I believe all this Hi tech is going to be done away with.

When Satan is released he will deceive Gog and Magog and they will again build armies and Weapons as taught to mankind by the Fallen Angels but they will be primitive and come on horse back.

Please show me which great battle had the Jews burying the dead for seven moths and using their weapons as Fuel.
 
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Hitch

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Please show me which great battle had the Jews burying the dead for seven moths and using their weapons as Fuel.

Sure,its right after theone about the giant floating cubical city... Really though I would prefer a narrow spectrum. Please address the overall chronological objections already presented. You have stated your contrary position but you are yet to directly and with Scripture explain why my objections are invalid.

Take care

Hitch
 
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ikester

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Just The Facts said:
Hi Ikster

you seem to be missing the point Ezekiel 38 is Gog and Magog but Rev makes it clear that that does not happen until after the 1,000 years of Peace and since we both agree that has not happened then Ez 38 must be over 1,000 years away. To teach it is just about to happen is a false teaching the bible is very clear when the 1,000 years have expired.

To try and suggest that they are two different events is just not true Ez 37 and 38 is Revelation 20: The resurrection ( ez 37 ) and the 1,000 years followed by Gog (Ez 38).


lies or Myths taught as Truth.

Friday crucified Sunday Risen is a lie it is a myth based on the False God Tammuz who died on Friday and was brought back to life after 40 days. (40 days of Lent sound familiar)

Ezek:8:14: Then he brought me to the door of the gate of the Lord's house which was toward the north; and, behold, there sat women weeping for Tammuz.

Jesus was crucified Wednesday Afternoon at 3:00 pm which was on Passover it is the only way he could be in the ground ...........three days .........................and Three Nights.........................nothing else works because he was already Risen by Sunday Morning.

This is a Lie it is a Myth and it is taught as Gospel truth. It is not it is a lie.

now this is a very small thing in my eyes but it is still a myth a lie Christianity wandered into many centuries ago.

[3] For the time is coming when people will not endure sound teaching, but having itching ears they will accumulate for themselves teachers to suit their own likings, [4] and will turn away from listening to the truth and wander into myths.

That time came and went in the Fourth century and Christianity never recovered so that today Christianity teaches Myths and Lies as the Truth.

I can give many more examples that go far deeper into the core of what is wrong with Christianity in God's eyes.

JTF...I take it your Seventh Day Adventist..........I'm sure there are many difference of opinions in mainstream christianity....even in churches under the same denomination....do adventist adhere to the doctrines of Ellen White....are they infallible..
 
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Wills

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Just The Facts said:
So let me ask you the same question

HAS THE 1,000 Years of Peace happened yet?

4: And he shall judge among the nations, and shall rebuke many people: and they shall beat their swords into plowshares, and their spears into pruninghooks: nation shall not lift up sword against nation, neither shall they learn war any more.

Has the 1,000 years of Peace happened Yet?

It really is a very simple question.


Does the Bible ACTUALLY MENTION PEACE together with the period 1000 years? No... just 1000 years.

You have mentioned the fact that the church introduces ideas of men so you need to avoid

any input whatsoever, that cannot be found in the text of Revelation 20:1-7.

Christ reigns for 1000 years and Satan is sealed in the pit.. BUT SATAN IS NOT DESTROYED during the 1000 years.

Therefore, Revelation 20 does not CATEGORICALLY state that Christ reigns in a 1000 year

period OF PEACE. All Revelation 20 states is that Christ reigns for 1000 years and Satan does not deceive
the nations however individuals will still be subject to their own weaknesses in flesh.... ADOLF HITLER

was not guided by Satan... He took his own decisions same as some terrorist murderer out there with

a machine gun.


I do not dispute the 1000 year reign. No way. All I am saying is that THERE IS A HUGE MISCONCEPTION

that Revelation 20 describes the 1000 years as a time of Peace.

Revelation 20 does not in any way, describe the 1000 years as a time of peace and we cannot assume

that merely because Satan is in the pit, human beings will not be subject to greed, ethnic hatred,

desire to grab oil, gold, money, murder etc

That is a huge misconception regarding the 1000 years. Satan is Satan and human beings

can NEVER be free from sin merely because Satan is in the pit.


Could we not have SIN ON THE MOON when astronuats went there? What about when humans are in
space?


Prove me wrong by locating the WORD Peace as in 1000 YEARS OF PEACE IN REVELATION 20.

It is quite easy to jump the gun and assume that it is so... but PEACE is simply not there.

Nothing against the reign of Jesus.. but it is not stated as a time of Peace.

Therefore, we cannot use the existence/absence of PEACE to find out whether the 1000 years is taking
place or not. Not at all straightforward.

The 1000 year time period is ONLY described REVELATION 20 by the way. Nowwhere else.
 
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