Is it alright to cut myself bad to atone for something?

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P_G

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Anthony:

My bad I should have reffered to Debbi as Debbi so I indulge your forgiveness on that.

Specifically though the scripture states where that spirit came from

a messenger of Satan,

Also I was taking the whole of the Pauline letters where there are times when he appears that he is not really overjoyed at his physical condition and times when he laments missing his brothers (wouldn't you?)
But he always manages to overcome in the joy of the Lord!
I think we are probably arguing the same point from different sides here and I am just not comming across very well. For that I appologize.

And the shot was not taken at you but moreso the church as a whole. I think a lot of times we forget to pray for the opressed that come across our path. So it is a sanity check question.

Blessings and a big hug in Love

PG
 
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Anthony

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Svt4Him said:
Now to hijack this thread, but yes, she does need deliverance if she has a spirit of fear. Depression may be spiritual, it may not, but talk to someone. As for "but blaming all our problems and ills on satan" you are assuming that if someone gets deliverance, they are blaming all their problems on satan. This is not true. Someone may misuse grace as an occasion to sin, but grace doesn't loose it's power if some people misuse it.
The spirit of fear? Is this another demon? Is everything a bad spirit?
 
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Anthony

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Nehemiah_Center said:
Anthony:

My bad I should have reffered to Debbi as Debbi so I indulge your forgiveness on that.

Specifically though the scripture states where that spirit came from

a messenger of Satan,

Also I was taking the whole of the Pauline letters where there are times when he appears that he is not really overjoyed at his physical condition and times when he laments missing his brothers (wouldn't you?)
But he always manages to overcome in the joy of the Lord!
I think we are probably arguing the same point from different sides here and I am just not comming across very well. For that I appologize.

And the shot was not taken at you but more so the church as a whole. I think a lot of times we forget to pray for the opressed that come across our path. So it is a sanity check question.

Blessings and a big hug in Love

PG
I agree the messenger of satan was as the greek word translates an "angel"

That Paul was bugged or buffeted by satan's angel put not possessed. satan angel nagged and

But Paul was not a manic depressive.

As to whether Paul situation was physical is a whole other debate. I believe the Bible shows Paul situation was not a physical aliment imposed on him.
 
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sandman

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Debbi said:
Is is wrong for me to cut myself bad to atone for something I've done wrong? I may have a spirit of depression and I want it to go away but nothing helps. If I could cut deep enough, would that atone for me being bad? At my church it is a sin to be depressed. But I picked up wanting to cut to atone at another church. I don't know what God is mad at me about either. Can a christian have a spirit of depression or spirit of fear?
Back to the question at hand

Debbi



Yes it is wrong to this degree………….

Well really, so many others have covered it in this thread that I will not reiterate; but an illustration I will give you

Lets say it’s your birthday and someone has bought you a car. Lets say it’s the Nissan 350Z and it cost 33,000

Now you own the title, its free and clear, the car is silver and it’s yours……..and it is nice {happy birthday}

the following day you go back to the dealership where the Z was purchased and tell the dealer that someone bought this car for you yesterday, but you are here to pay for it again, and you lay down a bright shinny penny.

After the initial “are you stoned girl” the dealer looks at you and says

“first the car has been paid in full you own the title as proof, and second if you were going to pay for it again a penny would come no where near covering the cost”.

And thats exactly what you are doing……….. No amount of cutting, gouging, scratching, digging, slicing, biting, burning, or pecking that you do, will come close to covering what God has wrought for you through Christ Jesus. Allegorically, when you cut yourself, it’s like laying down a penny to repurchase the Z.

Now there is three reasons that you might be doing this………..

The first is your feelings of unrighteousness - you trying to substitute for what has already been done for you. I trust you understand through the illustration above, and the other posts that it is a finished work. Jesus Christ was a complete savior for all our sins past present and future. If you feel you need to atone for your sins, change your thinking to line up with the Word of God.

Second is for attention – If your cutting for attention then there is obviously more going on then what you have revealed …….seek counseling.

Third is spiritual – If you can’t stop…if you feel driven to do this, then PM me and we can discuss how to rectify this; or seek a good Christian counselor.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~`

God bless

sandman
 
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ydouxist

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Anthony said:
This woman? Remember she has a name.

Debbi surely needs our prayers and help. As fellow Christians we should suggest she find comfort with other Christians, during this period of depression. Deliverance ministies? are real activity sure, but blaming all our problems and ills on satan is playing right into satan hands. It give satan unwarrented power and strength over you. You are simple turning the keys of the car over to him. She needs support from other Christians.

Lead us not into temptation? Are you suggesting or saying that Debbi was lead, or tempted into become depressed? That depression is actually an evil spirit.
You're right, Anthony
I should have said Debbi
 
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Svt4Him

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Anthony said:
The spirit of fear? Is this another demon? Is everything a bad spirit?
Yes, obviously if there's a spirit of fear, there's a demon of everything. :scratch:

You are not given a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind. What, a spirit of fear is mentioned in the Bible?

Did I not already say not everything is spiritual? Seems you may have a chip on your shoulders regarding this. Or maybe it's a ... ;)
 
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patrick

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Mark 5:1-20.
1. And they came over unto the other side of the sea, into the country of the Gadarenes.
2. And when he was come out of the ship, immediately there met him out of the tombs a man with an unclean spirit,
3. Who had his dwelling among the tombs; and no man could bind him, no, not with chains:
4. Because that he had been often bound with fetters and chains, and the chains had been plucked asunder by him, and the fetters broken in pieces: neither could any man tame him.
5. And always, night and day, he was in the mountains, and in the tombs, crying, and cutting himself with stones.
6. But when he saw Jesus afar off, he ran and worshipped him,
7. And cried with a loud voice, and said, What have I to do with thee, Jesus, thou Son of the most high God? I adjure thee by God, that thou torment me not.
8. For he said unto him, Come out of the man, thou unclean spirit.
9. And he asked him, What is thy name? And he answered, saying, My name is Legion: for we are many.
10. And he besought him much that he would not send them away out of the country.
11. Now there was there nigh unto the mountains a great herd of swine feeding.
12. And all the devils besought him, saying, Send us into the swine, that we may enter into them.
13. And forthwith Jesus gave them leave. And the unclean spirits went out, and entered into the swine: and the herd ran violently down a steep place into the sea, (they were about two thousand;) and were choked in the sea.
14. And they that fed the swine fled, and told it in the city, and in the country. And they went out to see what it was that was done.
15. And they come to Jesus, and see him that was possessed with the devil, and had the legion, sitting, and clothed, and in his right mind: and they were afraid.
16. And they that saw it told them how it befell to him that was possessed with the devil, and also concerning the swine.
17. And they began to pray him to depart out of their coasts.
18. And when he was come into the ship, he that had been possessed with the devil prayed him that he might be with him.
19. Howbeit Jesus suffered him not, but saith unto him, Go home to thy friends, and tell them how great things the Lord hath done for thee, and hath had compassion on thee.
20. And he departed, and began to publish in Decapolis how great things Jesus had done for him: and all men did marvel.

I know that this section has a literal interpretation but God has hidden a spiritual message in these verses in the types that is quite literally astonishing. So please bare with me as you read the following.

Tombs also represent dead teachers of the law, ministers of condemnation (Matthew 23:27; II Cor. 3:6-18), without the Spirit's ability to produce life in all that hear. And here is a story of a man that had become unclean because he was hanging around the tombs (Leviticus 22:4). He was busy going from tomb to tomb and then going into the mountains trying to get a word from God.

Mountains in the Old Testament can have different meanings in the Bible depending upon which mountain that you are talking about. There is the holy mountain of the Lord that is mount Zion, and they that trust in the Lord will be as mount Zion, which cannot be removed, but abideth forever (Psalms 125:1). Obliviously mount Zion is the saints that rely only, and wholly on the Lord. There is also mount Sinai that literally says, "Keep away. Lest you be pierced through." No trespassing is allowed at this mountain. This is also a mountain of the Lord. Under the understanding of the people of God at that time God was hard, angry, stern, and almost completely unapproachable by the common man at this mountain. This is the mount that God gave us the pattern of the Tabernacle; The priesthood (Levitical, and Aaronic); the seven feasts along with Sabbath rests; the sacrifices and offerings to the Lord; and the Laws (ceremonial, moral, and civil). There is mount Gibeon the last resting place of the Tabernacle of Moses, before the priest hood sinned and lost the Ark to the Philistines. This is where the priesthood continued to offer sacrifices to God and yearly go through the motions of obedience; but because the Ark of the Covenant, the place of God's presence was somewhere else; (in Philistine, and later in the home of Obededom. I Samuel 5:1-12; 6:1-12) they were practicing a form of godliness denying the power thereof. Then there is Mount Moriah the mountain that God had Abraham travel to by faith so that he could offer Isaac up to the Father in obedience. This was also the mountain that Solomon built the Temple.

Then is also mount Seir. Also known as Edom, or Esau (Genesis 32:3; 36:8). And Esau is a type of the flesh. And their hostility to Israel was plain because of a desire for revenge. (Psa. 137.7; Lam. 4:21-22; Obad.10-14 compare Gen. 27:27-41: Isa. 34:5-7; Eze. 35; Jer. 49.7-22; Amos 1:11-12; 9:11-12; Mal. 1:2-5. God will make Seir most desolate; which is a type of the old man being crucified. Check out the contrast between Ezekiel 35 and Ezekiel 36. Mount Seir is made most desolate, then the mountains of Israel will be restored and the people transformed (Eze. 36). The ruin of Seir (the first man ADAM -I Corinthians 15:44-49) is necessary for the Rising up of the Last ADAM (corporately, the Army of chapter 37), who has experienced the rest of the new covenant of chapter 36. So we have the devastation of Edom (the old nature) and the restoration of Israel (the new nature). Adam and Christ, THE LIE AND THE TRUTH. (Romans 1:23-25) see also Gen. 25:22; 27:1-41; Num. 20: 14-21; II Sam. 8:13; II kg. 8:20; 14.7; Psa. 137.7 Isa.34; Jer. 49.7-22; Lam. 4:21; Amos 1:11; Gal 4:21-31.


Let us now examine the mountain that I believe the passage about the demonic is truly referring to. We will start out with an Old Testament parallel that is found in Isaiah.

Isaiah 65
1. I Am sought of them that asked not for me; I am found of them that sought me not: I said, Behold me, behold me, unto a nation that was not called by my name.
2. I have spread out my hands all the day unto a rebellious people, which walketh in a way that was not good, after their own thoughts;
3. A people that provoketh me to anger continually to my face; that sacrificeth in gardens, and burneth incense upon altars of brick;
4. Which remain among the graves, and lodge in the monuments, which eat swine's flesh, and broth of abominable things is in their vessels;
5. Which say, Stand by thyself, come not near to me; for I am holier than thou. These are a smoke in my nose, a fire that burneth all the day.
6. Behold, it is written before me: I will not keep silence, but will recompense, even recompense into their bosom,
7. Your iniquities, and the iniquities of your fathers together, saith the Lord, which have burned incense upon the mountains, and blasphemed me upon the hills: therefore will I measure their former work into their bosom.

Notice verses 2, 4, and 7 in particular. In Mark there are tombs, pigs, and mountains; here in Isaiah there are also graves, swine, and mountains. And because of this we can safely assume that this is the type of mountain we need to seek an understanding of. As a further note, we can now begin to see that the demonic was actually a man who was rebellious, and was walking in a way that was not good, but was inclined to vain imaginations. He was also involved in idolatry, and blasphemy against the Lord.

Jeremiah 3

19. But I said, How shall I put thee among the children, and give thee a pleasant land, a goodly heritage of the hosts of nations? And I said, Thou shalt call me, my father; and shalt not turn away from me.
20. Surely as a wife treacherously departeth from her husband, so have ye dealt treacherously with me, O house of Israel, saith the Lord.
21. A voice was heard upon the high places, weeping and supplications of the children of Israel: for they have perverted their way, and they have forgotten the Lord their God.
22. Return, ye backsliding children, and I will heal your backslidings. Behold, we come unto thee; for thou art the Lord our God.
23. Truly in vain is salvation hoped for from the hills, and from the multitude of mountains: truly in the Lord our God is the salvation of Israel.
24. For shame hath devoured the labour of our fathers from our youth; their flocks and their herds, their sons and their daughters.
25. We lie down in our shame, and our confusion covereth us: for we have sinned against the Lord our God, we and our fathers, from our youth even unto this day, and have not obeyed the voice of the Lord our God.

Men were not trusting in the Lord for their salvation but were trusting in other mountains. I used to live in the foothills of the Rockies, and when I was at the base of one of the lower hills I could not see any of the higher mountains that were behind the hill. The view was obscured because of my closeness to the smaller hill. So it is when we get too close to our idols, they obscure our view of the Lord, or completely block Him from view. We begin to trust in only what we see, and miss our Father completely. Anything can become an idol unto us. Everything from our favorite teacher, or prophet, to any teaching that causes us to rely on our own abilities or on the abilities of the gods that we worship that happen to be only vain imaginations and nothing more.

Compare Jeremiah 3:6 The Lord said also unto me in the days of Josiah the king, Hast thou seen that which backsliding Israel hath done? She is gone up upon every high mountain and under every green tree, and there hath played the harlot.

Check out also: Ps 121:1-2; Is 44.9; Is 45:20; Is 46.7-8; Je 10:14-16; Eze 20:28; Jon 2:8-9.

These mountains are synonymous with the High Places that God so hated throughout the bible (Ezekiel 6:3). Here are a few verses on God's opinion on the high places.

Ezekiel 6:3 And say, Ye MOUNTAINS of Israel, hear the word of the Lord God; Thus saith the Lord God to the MOUNTAINS, and to the hills, to the rivers, and to the valleys; Behold, I, even I, will bring a sword upon you, and I will destroy your high places.

Leviticus 26:30 And I will destroy your high places, and cut down your images, and cast your carcases upon the carcases of your idols, and my soul shall abhor you.

Numbers 33:52 Then ye shall drive out all the inhabitants of the land from before you, and destroy all their pictures, and destroy all their molten images, and quite pluck down all their high places:

Deuteronomy 33:29 Happy art thou, O Israel: who is like unto thee, O people saved by the Lord, the shield of thy help, and who is the sword of thy Excellency! And thine enemies shall be found liars unto thee; and thou shalt tread upon their high places.

2 Samuel 1:19 The beauty of Israel is slain upon thy high places: how are the mighty fallen!

Kings 12:32 And Jeroboam ordained a feast in the eighth month, on the fifteenth day of the month, like unto the feast that is in Judah, and he offered upon the altar. So did he in Bethel, sacrificing unto the calves that he had made: and he placed in Bethel the priests of the high places which he had made.

1 Kings 13:2 And he cried against the altar in the word of the Lord, and said, O altar, altar, thus saith the Lord; Behold, a child shall be born unto the house of David, Josiah by name; and upon thee shall he offer the priests of the high places that burn incense upon thee, and men's bones shall be burnt upon thee.

1 Kings 13:33 After this thing Jeroboam returned not from his evil way, but made again of the lowest of the people priests of the high places: whosoever would, he consecrated him, and he became one of the priests of the high places.

1 Kings 22:43 And he walked in all the ways of Asa his father; he turned not aside from it, doing that which was right in the eyes of the Lord: nevertheless the high places were not taken away; for the people offered and burnt incense yet in the high places.

2 Kings 15:4 Save that the high places were not removed: the people sacrificed and burnt incense still on the high places.

There are dozens of verses just like this throughout the Old Testament. Here are a few more along the same lines that need to be looked up if you desire to do farther research. 2 Kings 17.9 ,2 Kings 17:11, Psalms 78:58, Jeremiah 7:31, Jeremiah 19:5 Jeremiah 32:35, Jeremiah 48:35, Ezekiel 6:6, Ezekiel 43.7, Hosea 10:8, Micah 1:3.

In the case of the demonic the type for mountains becomes a place of rebellion and idol worship. It can include worship of false prophets, false teachers, teachings we have heard, and anything else that can become an idol that we can trust in for salvation instead of the Lord: but it is definitely not limited to any of these. Mountains can be viewed as places of stability and trust. Unfortunately in this case trust in vain imaginations about various things for our deliverance, and salvation; instead of the Lord Himself who is the only one that is truly real and can help us in a time of trouble. Our trust in God, or in the mountains will be measured to see if it compares with Jesus' and if it does not then it will be burned as with fire (I Corinthians 3.9-15). Mountains are kingdoms.

part 1 of 2

Grace and peace Patrick
 
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patrick

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Part 2 of 2


Ezekiel 43.9-12 9. Now let them put away their whoredom, and the carcases of their kings, far from me, and I will dwell in the midst of them forever.
10. Thou son of man, shew the house to the house of Israel, that they may be ashamed of their iniquities: and let them measure the pattern.
11. And if they be ashamed of all that they have done, shew them the form of the house, and the fashion thereof, and the goings out thereof, and the comings in thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and all the forms thereof, and all the laws thereof: and write it in their sight, that they may keep the whole form thereof, and all the ordinances thereof, and do them.
12. This is the law of the house; Upon the top of the mountain the whole limit thereof round about shall be most holy. Behold, this is the law of the house.

The House of the Lord on this Holy mountain is what we must see; and compare our lives to; and when we clearly see we will be ashamed of our low walk in the flesh. And then God will open up our eyes not only to see the form, ordinances, comings and goings of the house, but to apprehend them for our lives. Then we will begin to grow the way that He has intended for us all along. Which is to be conformed to the image of His precious Son. Then God will fully dwell in our midst. I am not saying that God is not dwelling in our midst now by His Holy Ghost. We only have an earnest of our inheritance now (II Cor 1:21-22); but then we will have the entire Lord dwelling in a corporate son.

The priesthood of that time (tombs) was trying their best to correct (chain) the demonic and to clothe him Luke 8:27. The priest hood was clothed in righteousness, Psalms 132.9 says: Let thy priests be clothed with righteousness; and let thy saints shout for joy. But this man refused to be clothed, in their righteousness. Could it be because their righteousness was not really God's righteousness?

The word says this in Ezekiel 33:13 When I shall say to the righteous, that he shall surely live; if he trust to his own righteousness, and commit iniquity, all his righteousness shall not be remembered; but for his iniquity that he hath committed, he shall die for it. Has our righteousness become another mountain to overcome?

Roman 10 states this about the righteousness of the ministry of Condemnation.
1. Brethren, my heart's desire and prayer to God for Israel is, that they might be saved.
2. For I bear them record that they have a zeal of God, but not according to knowledge.
3. For they being ignorant of God's righteousness, and going about to establish their own righteousness, have not submitted themselves unto the righteousness of God.
4. For Christ is the end of the law for righteousness to every one that believeth.
5. For Moses describeth the righteousness which is of the law, That the man which doeth those things shall live by them.

Philippians 3 says

7. But what things were gain to me, those I counted loss for Christ.
8. Yea doubtless, and I count all things but loss for the excellency of the knowledge of Christ Jesus my Lord: for whom I have suffered the loss of all things, and do count them but dung, that I may win Christ,
9. And be found in him, not having mine own righteousness, which is of the law, but that which is through the faith of Christ, the righteousness which is of God by faith:
10. That I may know him, and the power of his resurrection, and the fellowship of his sufferings, being made conformable unto his death;
11. If by any means I might attain unto the resurrection of the dead.
12. Not as though I had already attained, either were already perfect: but I follow after, if that I may apprehend that for which also I am apprehended of Christ Jesus.
13. Brethren, I count not myself to have apprehended: but this one thing I do, forgetting those things which are behind, and reaching forth unto those things which are before,
14. I press toward the mark for the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus.

15. Let us therefore, as many as be perfect, be thus minded: and if in any thing ye be otherwise minded, God shall reveal even this unto you.

These are two passages that make the righteousness of the Law OUR righteousness not God's, and Isaiah 64:6 claims that OUR righteousness is as filthy rags. We are talking about a "Holy" commandment that came directly from the Lord; that causes the motion of sin to become manifest in our lives so that we may see our true lack. This is what Romans 7 says about the Holy commandment:

5 For when we were in the flesh, the motions of sins, which were by the law, did work in our members to bring forth fruit unto death.
6. But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.
7. What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.
8. But sin, taking occasion by the commandment, wrought in me all manner of concupiscence. For without the law sin was dead.
9. For I was alive without the law once: but when the commandment came, sin revived, and I died.
10. And the commandment, which was ordained to life, I found to be unto death.
11. For sin, taking occasion by the commandment, deceived me, and by it slew me.
12. Wherefore the law is holy, and the commandment holy, and just, and good.
13. Was then that which is good made death unto me? God forbid. But sin, that it might appear sin, working death in me by that which is good; that sin by the commandment might become exceeding sinful.
13. For we know that the law is spiritual: but I am carnal, sold under sin.

We are talking about ordinances that we after our first man Adam cannot live by. Man was trying to live by a nature of sin to fulfill God's righteous requirements. These requirements only stirred up the motions of sin in our flesh, and sin became stronger till the sin of disobedience finally burst forth, and snapped the chains binding him.


Later in the same chapter of Romans it states this principle this way:

15. For that which I do I allow not: for what I would, that do I not; but what I hate, that do I.
16. If then I do that which I would not, I consent unto the law that it is good.
17. Now then it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
18. For I know that in me (that is, in my flesh,) dwelleth no good thing: for to will is present with me; but how to perform that which is good I find not.
19. For the good that I would I do not: but the evil which I would not, that I do.
20. Now if I do that I would not, it is no more I that do it, but sin that dwelleth in me.
21. I find then a law, that, when I would do good, evil is present with me.

Here are a few other scriptures to look up for further study: Ro 3:19-20; Ro 4:15; Ro 5:13; Ro 5:20; Gal 3:10-13.

The demonic trusted all that the tombs, and the mountains were telling him for his salvation. He did not doubt any of it, and as he tried to apply the water of the word to the dust of his flesh all he ended up getting was a muddy mess. He needed a new nature, but he didn't have it in himself. James 2:10 shows that if we are working to establish our righteousness, yet offend in one point we are guilty of the whole law. The chains were all the teachings that we trust more than God for salvation.



As in weight lifting to increase your strength you need the resistance of the weight against your muscles. So likewise the law is the resistance that sin needs to become stronger. Sooner or later you and I will do just like the demonic we will break the chains that the tombs have placed upon us. When the chains of commandments finally break, then we suffer much guilt for disappointing the god of our mountain. This god is not necessarily the Lord God; but is only our vain imagination. As we perceive Jesus approaching we expect a vengeful God to draw near. We expect Him to cast us into eternal hell fire because of what the religious idols that we hold dear to our hearts have taught us. We deserve death, and we are unclean. We have broken a legion of ordinances and laws and are continually tormented by fear of punishment in hell. This is what we have received from the tombs and the mountains. Fear has totally gripped our hearts, along with all of the torment that goes with it.

The word tells us that God has not given us a spirit of fear, but of love, power and a sound mind. The unclean man although he had been spending much time in church did not have any love. Nor did He have any power. Nor did he have a sound mind. He only had fear. Unfortunately we also find ourselves in the very same mess. We are stuck in fear and need a helping hand to get out. When perfect love appears then he will casts out ALL fear (I John 4:17,18): And when Jesus shows up, He does something that is so unexpected. Jesus heals the demonic and sets him free. He gives the demonized man a new right mind, the mind of Christ. And He clothes him with His righteousness (Rev 19:8. And to her was granted that she should be arrayed in fine linen, clean and white: for the fine linen is the righteousness of saints). He who was the perfect expression of love showed up and cast out all fears.



Because of religious teaching this man received from the tombs; he expected only torment in hell for his transgressions against all of the laws he tried to live by but miserably failed to keep. He wailed and begged Jesus to have mercy upon him. Mercy is what He received.
Cutting yourself is an expression of feeling unlean and is a form of demonic oppression that can lead into demonic possession. Find the real Jesus and the depression will cease. And you will be given His righteousness and His mind, instead of your righteousness and your feeling the need to atone for uncleaness that you can never get rid of without His blood. Hebrews chapter 8,9,10.

Grace and Peace Patrick
 
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Anthony

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Svt4Him said:
Yes, obviously if there's a spirit of fear, there's a demon of everything. :scratch:

You are not given a spirit of fear, but of power, love, and a sound mind. What, a spirit of fear is mentioned in the Bible?

Did I not already say not everything is spiritual? Seems you may have a chip on your shoulders regarding this. Or maybe it's a ... ;)
Sorry, but I disagree

Demons are Angels, bad ones, but Angel still the same, created beings, with a mind and intelligence. They are not zombies, there aren't single angels for fear, another one for depression, and another one for lust, another one for sadness. They all work the same, and have the same objective.

There are not spirts of "things" there is just satan and his other fallen angels. You are up against them, not against mystical powers.
 
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Svt4Him

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Anthony said:
Sorry, but I disagree

Demons are Angels, bad ones, but Angel still the same, created beings, with a mind and intelligence. They are not zombies, there aren't single angels for fear, another one for depression, and another one for lust, another one for sadness. They all work the same, and have the same objective.

There are not spirts of "things" there is just satan and his other fallen angels. You are up against them, not against mystical powers.
I'm just quoting the Bible. Not only that, but the Bible is clear that there are different 'ranks' of angels as well as demons. And there is nothing mystical about their power, but you posted that, not me.
 
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MikeMcK

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Debbi said:
Is is wrong for me to cut myself bad to atone for something I've done wrong? I may have a spirit of depression and I want it to go away but nothing helps. If I could cut deep enough, would that atone for me being bad? At my church it is a sin to be depressed. But I picked up wanting to cut to atone at another church. I don't know what God is mad at me about either. Can a christian have a spirit of depression or spirit of fear?
Get out of that church and go get help.

I'm praying for you.
 
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Anthony

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Svt4Him said:
I'm just quoting the Bible. Not only that, but the Bible is clear that there are different 'ranks' of angels as well as demons. And there is nothing mystical about their power, but you posted that, not me.
Demons are not a separate creations. Demons are fallen angels, that left heaven with satan. The term demon is used because of the greek word daimon or daimonion. Daimonion refers to a particular type of being in the Greek Patheon of gods. They were more powerful than humans.

In the Old Testament the word demon(s) appear only 2 times. And when it does it refers to pagan gods and demons. When referring to God's creations it is always Angels or satan. On the other hand the word Angel(s) appears 107 times. It's really only in the New Testament, were the greek word daimonion and it's variations are used.


http://bible.crosswalk.com/Lexicons/Greek/grk.cgi?number=1140&version=nas
 
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Debbi

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You've got to be kidding, I've been in pentecostal churches 30 years and I've heard way too much stuff. Some are big on their saying about getting a spirit of ---- and some are big on trying to knock the devil out of christians if they have something remotely like a mental illness or the person acts different from others. Some even taught that asking God's forgiveness was enough, you have to add works with it and they called it "cheap grace". I started having cutting ideas after I got my ribs broke in a deliverance service. I told what the pastor did to me and I felt I should have just stood and took it. I tried to atone for my not taking getting hurt and not being able to just forgive, forget, and make like nothing happened. I wanted to atone to make something go away. Asking for forgiveness and doing works wasn't enough to make the pain go away. I wanted to permanently make the pain stop. I can't seem to erase the pain or the depression or wanting to cut deep. People look away when they saw the cuts and ignored me. I guess I don't make enough sense because I came out of a church that practiced Christian Ritual Abuse and I acted like a heathern from being amongst too much violence back then. Cutting is a cry for help but nobody was listening, they were too busy condemning me. I got bad at cutting at times when I get hit too hard at church since it must be alright to hurt myself, preachers hurt me and get away with it, why can't I?
 
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pentecostal girl

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Anyone Christian or non-Christian can open themselves up to any and all types of possession in various different ways.
I disagree with that. I believe a christian can be opressed but not possessed(bad spelling) Light and darkness can't dwell in the same place!
 
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SpiritPsalmist

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Debbi said:
You've got to be kidding, I've been in pentecostal churches 30 years and I've heard way too much stuff. Some are big on their saying about getting a spirit of ---- and some are big on trying to knock the devil out of christians if they have something remotely like a mental illness or the person acts different from others. Some even taught that asking God's forgiveness was enough, you have to add works with it and they called it "cheap grace". I started having cutting ideas after I got my ribs broke in a deliverance service. I told what the pastor did to me and I felt I should have just stood and took it. I tried to atone for my not taking getting hurt and not being able to just forgive, forget, and make like nothing happened. I wanted to atone to make something go away. Asking for forgiveness and doing works wasn't enough to make the pain go away. I wanted to permanently make the pain stop. I can't seem to erase the pain or the depression or wanting to cut deep. People look away when they saw the cuts and ignored me. I guess I don't make enough sense because I came out of a church that practiced Christian Ritual Abuse and I acted like a heathern from being amongst too much violence back then. Cutting is a cry for help but nobody was listening, they were too busy condemning me. I got bad at cutting at times when I get hit too hard at church since it must be alright to hurt myself, preachers hurt me and get away with it, why can't I?
Debbi. . .is this abuse from the pulpit happening to you now?
 
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pentecostal girl

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Debbi,

If I were you I would go to a quiet place in the house, turn on some soft praise and worship music and just cry out God. You can have some of the best times when your by yourself!

Psalm 18:6
In my distress I called upon the LORD, And cried out to my God; He heard my voice from His temple, And my cry came before Him, even to His ears

Psalm 56:9
When I cry out to You, Then my enemies will turn back; This I know, because God is for me.

Psalm 84:2
My soul longs, yes, even faints For the courts of the LORD; My heart and my flesh cry out for the living God

Psalm 57:2
I will cry out to God Most High, To God who performs all things for

God longs for us to cry out to him, he is our stength when we are weak! HE IS OUR ALL IN ALL:bow:

I 'll keep you in my prayers! I'll pray that God will bless you with his many blessings:prayer:

GOD BLESS
 
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look

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pentecostal girl said:

I disagree with that. I believe a christian can be opressed but not possessed(bad spelling) Light and darkness can't dwell in the same place!
I know this is off topic, but the truth is, demons cannot enter our spirits, unless of course you turn from Jesus and deny Him then you are (your spirit) wide open to being controlled by demons.

Baby Christians who do not know the Word of God can have demons in their bodies and minds (souls). But never your spirit unless you turn from Jesus.

In the Christian's walk, they learn to be spirit-ruled which is a slow educational process. If you are still carnally-minded then demons can influence your behavior because they are operating through your mind. You have to renew your mind to the Word of God and learn to let your spirit, with the Holy Spirit's guidance, have the dominance over you. This is the difference between being led by the spirit and not being led by the spirit.

I hope this helps...

But that's all I'm going to say on this matter. Remember, The Holy Spirit dwells with you in your spirit. Does anyone know where your spirit is in your body? :)
 
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sandman

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pentecostal girl said:

I disagree with that. I believe a christian can be opressed but not possessed(bad spelling) Light and darkness can't dwell in the same place!
I understand what your saying but you need to understand the physics involved in possession.

If what you say is true then we could not think evil thoughts, for evil is darkness, nor could we sin for sin is darkness, which stems from our thoughts.

The battle is in the mind and that is why we renew our minds to put on Gods Word.

I was just making the point that a born again Christian can be possessed by opening himself up to it through various means, I tried my best to explain that with my illustration. I am not talking about the Christian who is putting on Gods word renewing his mind and walking the walk.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

bless
sandman
 
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