Do Jews Still Waith for a Messiah?

christianbeginning · Dec 24, 2003

Hi - I don't know much about Judaism. So if you can answer some questions, I'd appreciate it.

1) Are Jews still waiting for a Messiah?
2) If yes to #1 above, do you expect the Messiah to restore Israel or do you expect Israel to be restored first and then the Messiah will come?
3) What else do you expect him to do?

Asking #3 since Israel has been restored, politically at least.

Would you agree that Israel can be destroyed and restored many times before the Messiah expectations begin to take on form?

4) If Jesus had restored Israel politically, do you think the ancient Jews would have accepted him?

5) What motive -besides being wrong - do you think the early followers of Christ had in teaching and spreading the traditions and beliefs that eventually came to be called Christianity?

Thanks.

Henaynei · Dec 24, 2003

christianbeginning said:
Hi - I don't know much about Judaism. So if you can answer some questions, I'd appreciate it.

christianbeginning said:
1) Are Jews still waiting for a Messiah?

Messianic Jews are awaiting His return, Rabbinic Jews, those who still believe in an actual physical Messiah, are awaiting His advent.

christianbeginning said:
2) If yes to #1 above, do you expect the Messiah to restore Israel or do you expect Israel to be restored first and then the Messiah will come?

Both Rabbinic and Messianic Jews are as divided on this issue as Christians.

christianbeginning said:
3) What else do you expect him to do?

christianbeginning said:
Asking #3 since Israel has been restored, politically at least.

Would you agree that Israel can be destroyed and restored many times before the Messiah expectations begin to take on form?

Personally I don't fully agree that Israel has been politically restored. She is trodden down by the gentiles now more than any time in her past since the destruction of the Temple in 70BCE:
1) Her populace is in fear of their lives in homes, work places, restaruants and places of worship while their enemies have the approval, political and financial support and protection of the world. She is pressured to submit and surrender and slice off more and more pieces of herself to feed the pagan ravenous beast for the sake of pieces of paper with the word "peace" on them without any assurances, indeed in the face of assurances to the contrary, that there is any meaning behind the word;
2) She is forbidden by pagans from entering her holy sites, most of them have been destroyed; she is forbidden to climb the Temple mount (except at selective and restircted times as allowed at the whim of pagan idol worshippers) and from showing even the slightest hint she might be thinking of worshipping or praying (lest she be stoned, thrown from the Mount or cause riots and an increase in death among her fellows) on the rare occasions she is allowed a visit to the defiled and destroyed holy grounds. Just because there is a Jewish government is no proof that "Jerusalem" is no longer trodden down by the gentiles. Not by a long shot!!!

christianbeginning said:
4) If Jesus had restored Israel politically, do you think the ancient Jews would have accepted him?

A very great many of the "ancient Jews" accepted Him. I am sure you are aware that many, many thousands, even hundreds of thousands of Jews did accept Yeshua - until the journeys of Rav Sha'ul (aka Paul) all those who followed and believed Yeshua were Jews, except for a tiny number of g-dfearing gentiles (Cornelius et al) that could be counted on your two hands.

Today, great numbers of Jews (hundreds of thousands, some counts say more than 1 million), worldwide - from USA to China, from Russia to Brazil, from India to Israel, believe Yeshua is Messiah.

christianbeginning said:
5) What motive -besides being wrong - do you think the early followers of Christ had in teaching and spreading the traditions and beliefs that eventually came to be called Christianity?

I am not sure I understand this question as stated.

christianbeginning · Dec 28, 2003

Messianic Jews are awaiting His return, Rabbinic Jews, those who still believe in an actual physical Messiah, are awaiting His advent.

For Messianic Jews: are they are awaiting his return to restore the physical kindgom of Israel?

For Rabbinic Jews: what do they expect him to do when he arrives?

She is pressured to submit and surrender and slice off more and more pieces of herself to feed the pagan ravenous beast for the sake of pieces of paper with the word "peace" on them without any assurances, indeed in the face of assurances to the contrary, that there is any meaning behind the word;

who are the pagan ravenous beasts? Muslims?

...is no longer trodden down by the gentiles.

In your view, under what circumstances would gentiles be allowed to visit Israel and visit and pray at the Holy Places without it being viewed as being "trodden down by gentiles"?

A very great many of the "ancient Jews" accepted Him. I am sure you are aware that many, many thousands, even hundreds of thousands of Jews did accept Yeshua - until the journeys of Rav Sha'ul (aka Paul) all those who followed and believed Yeshua were Jews, except for a tiny number of g-dfearing gentiles (Cornelius et al) that could be counted on your two hands.

Today, great numbers of Jews (hundreds of thousands, some counts say more than 1 million), worldwide - from USA to China, from Russia to Brazil, from India to Israel, believe Yeshua is Messiah.

True - do you have any idea as to what percent of the Jewish population in ancient Palestine believed him to be the Messiah and became part of the early Christian (or Messianci Jew?) community? I've read in those days, there were about 1 million jews in Palestine.

My original question referred to the ancient Jews who did not accept him as Messiah - the underlying idea being that those who did not accept him back then are the forefathers of Jews today (who do not accept him as Messiah).

Henaynei · Dec 28, 2003

christianbeginning said:
For Messianic Jews: are they awaiting his return to restore the physical kindgom of Israel?

As I said, the opinion of MJs is as diverse on this as the opinions in Christianity some would say yes, others no, others would find something else to say!

christianbeginning said:
For Rabbinic Jews: what do they expect him to do when he arrives?

Since Rabbinic Judaism includes everything from the Chabad to the Orthodox to the Reform to the Conservative to the Humanist to the Reconstructionist to Secular and more --- you will get as many opinions.

Some to instate the physical and spiritual Messianic Kingdom others nothing at all as for them Messiah either does not exist or is a social ideal (Messianic age).

christianbeginning said:
who are the pagan ravenous beasts? Muslims?

No, the PLO, Hamas, Fatah et al who are trying to devour Isarel. I believe that Muslims are pagan, yes, but I am not willing to stqate that all Muslims are by any means all wanting to devour the State of Israel.

christianbeginning said:
In your view, under what circumstances would gentiles be allowed to visit

christianbeginning said:
Israel and visit and pray at the Holy Places without it being viewed as being "trodden down by gentiles"?

Trodden has nothing to do with the presence of non-Jews but with Jews not having sovereignty over the land, their security and their holy places.

christianbeginning said:
True - do you have any idea as to what percent of the Jewish population in ancient

christianbeginning said:
Palestine believed him to be the Messiah and became part of the early Christian (or Messianic Jewish?) community? I've read in those days, there were about 1 million Jews in Palestine.

I dont know what the statistics but perhaps someone else here does.

christianbeginning said:
My original question referred to the ancient Jews who did not accept him as Messiah - the underlying idea being that those who did not accept him back then are the forefathers of Jews today (who do not accept him as Messiah).

christianbeginning said:
your original question said:

5) What motive -besides being wrong - do you think the early followers of Christ had in teaching and spreading the traditions and beliefs that eventually came to be called Christianity?

Click to expand...

I am sorry to be so dense but I dont see how these two statements relate can you maybe totally restate the question??

sojeru · Dec 28, 2003

Ac 21:20
And when they heard it, they glorified the Lord, and said unto him, Thou seest, brother, how many thousands of Jews there are which believe; and they are all zealous of the law:

so the council said that there were thousands of Jews that believed in Jerusalem/judea provinces. and thousands is at least 2 thousand.

Acts 2:41 said that 3 thousand souls were added that day at shavout (pentecost)

so we know that it is more than just 2 thousand jews that believed in Messiah.

Acts 4:4 speaks about 5 thousand that recieved.
so now that makes 8 thousand.

its not recorded that anymore believed or not- however, do you honestly think it ended here? remember there were already a great number that believed before pentecost, and a great number believed after- and I am also sure about after that.

I wouldnt doubt it if almost all the Jews in Jerusalem had actually believed in the messiah- however, what would that make of Judaism today and why they do not believe?
well, Judaism today as even the Judaism of Jerusalem was made from the Judaism of Babylon (the Jews that lived in Babylonia)
now- there were MUCH MORE jews (observant mind you) that lived in Babylonia than Jews that ived in Jerusalem. So, there it is.

shalom

koilias · Dec 28, 2003

Yeshua was very popular in Eretz Israel! It was not for nothing that the temple leaders had to conspire...After Yeshua told the parable of the wicked tenants against them, they straight away wanted to lay hands on him but "they feared the crowds", and began to plot in secret to find a way to bump Yeshua off. There was no other Rabbi in Israel who had ever had such a powerful draw except for maybe Rabbi Akivah, a hundred years later, during the Bar Kochbah years.

His followers were his talmidim, all Rabbis acquire we might call "groupies" and their schools continue teaching in their Rav's legacy. But the population in general is also deeply affected by a Sage. This is how Yeshua was accepted amidst the Jews in the first century--he was just one of many Sages. It wasn't until the late first century when the Rabbinic leaders began to distance themselves from the school of Yeshua. Obviously, they could not accept the deification of Yeshua that they saw, mainly among the diaspora followers of Yeshua. When that happened, I believe, they began to "blot out" his name from the Mishnah--dropping his teachings or attributing some of his sayings to other sages. For example, Yeshua's parable of the man who built his house on rock and the man who built his house sand, is attributed to another rabbi, Elisha ben Avuyah.

Still, the records show, that many of the later Rabbis had knowledge of the gospels, and continued reading them, if not secretly enjoying Yeshua's teachings (as it is stated of R. Eleazar). The impact Yeshua had on the hermeneutic approach taken by Rabbinic Judaism was tremendous. Building on the teachings of Hillel, Yeshua changed the way Jews approached Torah. His name is not mentioned for social and political reasons, but no other sage is more directly and indirectly responsible for the way the Rabbis handle Torah, particularly Halakha. The school of the founder of Rabbinic Judaism, Rabban Yohanan ben Zakkai, appropriated Yeshua's approach to interpreting the Torah. After the destruction of the temple, Rabban Zakkai redrew the circle of the heart of Judaism around HaShem's love for his people, as Yeshua preached 50 years before: When Yeshua said "Something greater than the temple is here", he was speaking of humanity, "the image of God", not just himself...No Jew around him would have understood Yeshua as speaking of only himself, but of all Torah observers who are humble and contrite in Spirit.

Henaynei · Dec 28, 2003

I just knew there were folks here with something to offer!! Go Team!!

Good information!!

christianbeginning · Dec 28, 2003

Thanks for all the informative responses.

I)

When I asked....

5) What motive -besides being wrong - do you think the early followers of Christ had in teaching and spreading the traditions and beliefs that eventually came to be called Christianity?

basically, I was asking non-believing Jews (maybe this forum doesn't have any) this question:

1) Assuming that Jesus was not who he said he was, and assuming that his followers were not fooled by him (with respect to his identity and his "powers"), what motive would his early followers have in spreading his words and teachings, and working to lay the foundations of the early church?

Essentially, to non-believing Jews, I was asking: "Besides being misguided, why did people bother converting others to Christianity?" I ask this because I can see political and financial gains as motivating factors for other religions.

II)

If Messianic Jews believe in Jesus - in the way Christians do - why are you called Messianic Jews instead of Christians?
Corollary - why don't we call Christians Messianic Jews?

What exactly is the difference? Is it only a question of ethnicity?

III) On the General Theology forum, I asked whether or not to interpret the Gospel scene depicting John (the Forerunner/Baptist) speaking with the Pharisees as an indication that Jesus was also a Pharisee (please see link for discussion). What do Messianic Jews think? Was Jesus a Pharisee?
http://www.christianforums.com/t76160

IV) How do Messianic Jews interpret the Old Testament?

Do you take the stories literally or symbolically?
As above, I had a similar discussion about this on the General Theology forum, and wonder what your view is on this (please see link).

http://www.christianforums.com/t76458

Henaynei · Dec 28, 2003

christianbeginning said:
I)When I asked....

christianbeginning said:
basically, I was asking non-believing Jews (maybe this forum doesn't have any) this question:

1) Assuming that Jesus was not who he said he was, and assuming that his followers were not fooled by him (with respect to his identity and his "powers"), what motive would his early followers have in spreading his words and teachings, and working to lay the foundations of the early church?

Essentially, to non-believing Jews, I was asking: "Besides being misguided, why did people bother converting others to Christianity?" I ask this because I can see political and financial gains as motivating factors for other religions.

There really arent any non-believing Jews (one maybe) here , as far as I know. Perhaps he will answer.

christianbeginning said:
II)If Messianic Jews believe in Jesus - in the way Christians do - why are you called Messianic Jews instead of Christians?

christianbeginning said:
Corollary - why don't we call Christians Messianic Jews?

What exactly is the difference? Is it only a question of ethnicity?

May I refer you to our Messianic FAQ where all the mysteries of the universe are (attempted to be) answered!

What if you are not Jewish but have similar beliefs as Messianics?
Wouldn't all Jews who believe in G-d's Messiah be Messianic Jews?

christianbeginning said:
III) On the General Theology forum, I asked whether or not to interpret the Gospel scene depicting John (the Forerunner/Baptist) speaking with the Pharisees as an indication that Jesus was also a Pharisee (please see link for discussion). What do Messianic Jews think? Was Jesus a Pharisee?

christianbeginning said:
[url="http://www.christianforums.com/t76160"]http://www.christianforums.com/t76160[/url]

Yes, Yeshua was a Pharisee. It is clear through out the Ketuvim Natzrim (aka NT).

christianbeginning said:
IV) How do Messianic Jews interpret the Old Testament?

Do you take the stories literally or symbolically?

As above, I had a similar discussion about this on the General Theology forum, and wonder what your view is on this (please see link). http://www.christianforums.com/t76458

Perhaps this thread would answer this question:

What is Messianic Judaism?
However, while I can't speak for others on this forum and certainly not all other MJs - both I and my husband to believe in the accuracy of the Torah and do not believe that it can be taken allegoriclly (sp?)

sojeru · Dec 29, 2003

If Messianic Jews believe in Jesus - in the way Christians do - why are you called Messianic Jews instead of Christians?
Corollary - why don't we call Christians Messianic Jews?

well, me being messianic- yet an individual can only speak for myself, and I know I will be going outside the question to give you information that you did not EXACTLY and SPECIFICALLY asked for.
No, Messianic Jews (or rather myself and the few that i know that believe as i do) Do not consider nor even think of even calling ourselves christians (why? I'll have to go back into history and the Pax Romana to show you- at this moment I am short on time to give you the historical factors) nor do we believe as Christians.
Yes, we believe in the Messiah Yeshuah, yes he came to show the full measure of grace by the giving of a full measure of TORAH (Law). He died, burried and was reconstituted (ressurected) and went into the heaven.
We follow his example of Torah observance which is the Spirit of the Torah and Hakham Paulos (Paul) taught us- which is how to correctly apply the Torah in our lives.
And doctrines?? well, those of us that believe very similar to my belief- we are Jewish, Orthodox to be exact ( or at least aspire to be).

IV) How do Messianic Jews interpret the Old Testament?

Do you take the stories literally or symbolically?

Again, im speaking for myself and others that practice Orthodox Judaism (or at least take much of its teachings) We read and interpret the BIBLE with Hermeneutics.
Hermeneutics has four levels of interpreting (and in each four levels contained within them are four levels)
The four levels are
Peshat
Remez
Drash
Sod

Notice the letters in bold- PRDS in Hebrew prds means garden or orchard.
what has just been shown to you is an example of Hermeneutics.
Each letter of PRDS means something.
P'[bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse][bless and do not curse]- simple litteral reading and interpretation.

Remez- means hinting at something- it is alluding to an interpretation.

D'rash- (this is the interpretation level of most Rabbi's) which is like a parable- Some pastors excercise this level at times, however in my opinion incorrectly- sometimes.)

Sod- Which is the mystery level- an example of such interpretation that needs much wisdom and understanding to interpret correctly is the book of Apoclypse by John.

nothing in that last book can be read literally. NOTHING, it is all symbolic.
However, in the "Old testament" we use all of these levels in interpreting- however, NONE OF IT DOES AWAY WITH THE FIRST SIMPLE READING/ interpretation.

there is much more to hermeneutics though- but this was just the 101 teaching.

So, we believe in the literal accuracy of Torah and also to its other levels.

blessings
Antonio

sojeru · Dec 29, 2003

oh yeah, just to clarify.
we believe that in order to interpret the Torah allegorically correct one must have the correct understanding of the simple. None of these levels can do away with the simplicity of the Bible.
So in order to correctly understand number 11- you must start with and correctly understand number 1.
(even if given by G-D in one instant- he will give you the beginning to the end he wishes your insight and knowledge to end. He is a G-d of order.)
So you cannot understand number 10, if you do not understand number 9, 8, 7, 6, 5...
you cannot understand B if you do not understand A
You cannot understand the "new testament" if you do not understand "Torah".
You cannot understand Mystery if you do not understand simple.
There is no running before walking.

shalom

koilias · Dec 29, 2003

Just my observation as a scholar, but in general Jews interpret Scripture in a much more sophisticated manner than gentiles. They are able to hold numerous multiple interpretations for a single scripture at once...even if they are mutually contradictory. I think the reason for this is that Jews are very psychologically complex people

, and generally disdain nice, pat answers to hermeneutic problems. When they approach the text, they don't stop asking questions, hankering always for deeper insights. They accept the literal with the symbolic at the same time. For example, they believe that their forefathers ate manna in the wilderness literally, but they also believe that manna is a symbol for Torah, and they'll back it up with Scripture: "for man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word that proceeds from the mouth of God".

A few things make Jews hermeneutically sophisticated:

1) An incredibly positive view of the Torah. The Torah is much greater than the sum of its parts: one can never stop plumbing it to greater depths.

2) Their exegesis is textually driven. Every jot and tittle of the text is important. Since not many gentiles can even read Hebrew, textually driven exegesis is impossible among gentiles. As a result, gentiles tend to favor an allegorical approach to understanding Scripture: one that values symbolism over a semantic and literary understanding of the text. (Note I'm not talking about the KJV, that's a 17th century work of literature!) Would you truly grasp Shakespeare if you read Shakespeare in Japanese? Of course not!!...Same holds for the Bible. There are just some things you can't access in a translation. For one, all the "bumps" of the text, which make the text interesting, are smoothed over in a translation: the bumps in the text are what drive midrash (part of the midrash is an interpretive contextualization of the Biblical stories).

3) They study Torah! They place a great emphasis on learning. They read and reread the text. They recite it always in their Synagogues, and they read and study what their ancestors said about it. They have an immense respect for their sages.

4) Related to the point above: It is typical (especially among the ancient sages) for a rabbi to have the entire Bible memorized in his head, along with the Talmud. I knew an Orthodox professor in Israel who gave away his Talmud to a student, since he never used it. It was all in his head! I'll let someone else comment on exactly how enormous the Talmud is. Since the basis of all Jewish hermeneutics is to have Scripture interpret Scripture, knowing the Bible like the back of your hand is an incredible advantage.

sojeru · Dec 29, 2003

Thanks Kolias,
Just to show an example of how much a Jew needs to know the Bible is shown in the following:
when a Jew who is about to graduate from Yeshiva (a School of Bible- kind of similar to a seminary but much more intense) to become a Rabbi, he is told to recite parts/passages of the bible that the judges would call out radomly- if he fails in reciting- he does not graduate either with a certain honors or positions held in the rabbinate or he fails and does not become rabbi.
( and it is not memorized in English, greek or spanish- only in Hebrew and the parts that were written in Aramaic)
The Talmud is just as important to memorize.

oh yes, and the talmud is written in volumes beyond volumes. If you have a home library- it would fill it up entirely.

christianbeginning · Dec 29, 2003

Thanks to everyone for answering my questions.

sojeru - that's the approach to Scripture that I've always taken....and I've noticed that in America at least, this approach can get some people - Christians - pretty angry with me. ...not so much in other countries though. However, I don't think my "method" of understanding is as sophisticated as what you described. Planning to research it...

koilias said:
Just my observation as a scholar, but in general Jews interpret Scripture in a much more sophisticated manner than gentiles

True! I've especially noticed this in America - no offense by the way to anyone.

Off topic: do Jews use the term "gentile" in a derogatory manner?

Wills · Dec 30, 2003

sojeru said:
Thanks Kolias,
Just to show an example of how much a Jew needs to know the Bible is shown in the following:
when a Jew who is about to graduate from Yeshiva (a School of Bible- kind of similar to a seminary but much more intense) to become a Rabbi, he is told to recite parts/passages of the bible that the judges would call out radomly- if he fails in reciting- he does not graduate either with a certain honors or positions held in the rabbinate or he fails and does not become rabbi.
( and it is not memorized in English, greek or spanish- only in Hebrew and the parts that were written in Aramaic)
The Talmud is just as important to memorize.

oh yes, and the talmud is written in volumes beyond volumes. If you have a home library- it would fill it up entirely.

Did Rabbi Jesus study the Talmud too?

Henaynei · Dec 30, 2003

Wills said:
Did Rabbi Jesus study the Talmud too?

This will be necessarily brief and simplistic - there are those here much more learned in the Talmud than I......

The Talmud consists of 2 sections:

1) the Oral traditions - passed orally from Moshe (Moses) - these were finally codified (written down) quite some time after the 70CE Dispersion. This section has long been known as the Mishna.

2) The second section is the recording in writing of the discussions and "arguments", sometimes centuries apart, between learned rabbis regarding sections of the Mishna. These are found written around the margins of the Mishna section being scrutinized. This discussions are known as the Gemara.

Together the Mishna and the Gemara are the Talmud.

Yes, Yeshua (as had always our learned Rabbis from Moshe on) both studied and commented on and made statements as to the correct or incorrect value of certain of the Mishaic determinations and by doing so their determinations (halakic decisions) often became part of the Mishna. Those that needed correcting He corrected, those that did not need correcting He did not change.

Shalom

simchat_torah · Dec 30, 2003

The easiest way to keep it straight:

G-d gave the Torah --> The Mishnah is a commentary on the mitzvot (laws found within the torah) ---> The talmud is commentary on the Mishnah

That's about as simplistic of a breakdown as it gets

Did Rabbi Jesus study the Talmud too?

While the Talmud itself wasn't written down until after the death of Y'shua, there were oral traditions that existed which the talmud was created from. Y'shua quoted from these quite often. As well, there are/were other Rabbinic traditions and writings of the Sages that Y'shua quoted from on a consistent basis.

shalom,
yafet.

Wills · Dec 31, 2003

Henaynei said:
This will be necessarily brief and simplistic - there are those here much more learned in the Talmud than I......

The Talmud consists of 2 sections:

1) the Oral traditions - passed orally from Moshe (Moses) - these were finally codified (written down) quite some time after the 70CE Dispersion. This section has long been known as the Mishna.

2) The second section is the recording in writing of the discussions and "arguments", sometimes centuries apart, between learned rabbis regarding sections of the Mishna. These are found written around the margins of the Mishna section being scrutinized. This discussions are known as the Gemara.

Together the Mishna and the Gemara are the Talmud.

Yes, Yeshua (as had always our learned Rabbis from Moshe on) both studied and commented on and made statements as to the correct or incorrect value of certain of the Mishaic determinations and by doing so their determinations (halakic decisions) often became part of the Mishna. Those that needed correcting He corrected, those that did not need correcting He did not change.

Shalom

Thanks for the insight. The 2 sections clarify the Book even further.

Could the laws that God gave Moses be followed today as they were given to the Hebrews?

That is, when Moses received the Laws from God, was there any possibility of extending/enlarging

the Lord's text (Laws) over the course of time or did the Lord expect no extensions or further discussions

of the Law-traditions as He gave them to Moses in Exodus(Mount Sinai) /Numbers/Deut etc?

I'd be grateful for some insight on this.

Henaynei · Dec 31, 2003

Wills said:
Thanks for the insight. The 2 sections clarify the Book even further.

Could the laws that God gave Moses be followed today as they were given to the Hebrews?

That is, when Moses received the Laws from God, was there any possibility of extending/enlarging

the Lord's text (Laws) over the course of time or did the Lord expect no extensions or further discussions

of the Law-traditions as He gave them to Moses in Exodus(Mount Sinai) /Numbers/Deut etc?

I'd be grateful for some insight on this.

That is what the Mishna is - from the beginning there was need for "clarification." G-d said no work on the Shabbat - but never said what work is. He said no kindling a fire on the Shabbat but never said how to keep warm in the winter, said "you must slaughter your animals in the manner I have shown you" but did not explain what that manner was, said to tie tzitzit on the corners of our garments but never how, to place "these" scriptures on our doorposts but not how - and on and on and on.

It was understood that G-d did give these instructions - "buried" within the Torah and our sages were to uncover them as needed.

Wills · Jan 1, 2004

Henaynei said:
That is what the Mishna is - from the beginning there was need for "clarification." G-d said no work on the Shabbat - but never said what work is. He said no kindling a fire on the Shabbat but never said how to keep warm in the winter, said "you must slaughter your animals in the manner I have shown you" but did not explain what that manner was, said to tie tzitzit on the corners of our garments but never how, to place "these" scriptures on our doorposts but not how - and on and on and on. It was understood that G-d did give these instructions - "buried" within the Torah and our sages were to uncover them as needed.

Thanks. That explains why it was needed and how they adjusted their lives in order to obey the Laws.

Regarding what the Lord gave directly, how did the Hebrews and Israelites up till the 1st 2 Davidic Kingdoms manage to satisfy the Lord regarding obeying the statutes and ordinances without the Talmud (which was written much later)?

It would be helpful to know how they lived and obeyed the Laws earlier on without the Talmud.

Which of the OT prophets taught areas of Talmud to help the Jews when needed?

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