What games should Christians not play?

I may be an atheist, but I am also an LOTR fan, so I will rebutt one of seeker4christ's points.

seeker4christ has asserted that the rule was to "kill the orcs". I would just like to point out that the orcs were generally trying to kill them first.

Also, wouldn't Sauron be something like Satan? They don't negotiate or try to change him because he won't do either. He wants to rule Middle-Earth, and the only dealings are to help him take it, like Saruman did, not pay him to keep a part safe. Unless, of course, you are suggesting that Satan can be saved.

Finally, what about Gandalf? He arrives on the scene, he dies (sort of), and he comes back to save Middle-Earth. Technically, he himself didn't, but without him, none would have known what the ring was (it wouldn't have left Gollum's cave at all), and Sauron could have found it and kept it. So, couldn't Gandalf be a Christ-like figure?

That's just my $.02.

seeker4Christ said:

I did find the Lord of the Rings to be entertaining and interesting and creative - I will give you that. But where is the witnessing? where the repentence? where the converting of sinners? where the loving of enemies? There is a LOT of killing in Lord of the Rings. Somewhere in one of the movies they reveal something that was in the Silmeralian book - the Lord of the Rings background book - that Orcs are really Elves converted into evil Orcs. So the writer had the concept of conversion - but only into evil. It should follow logicaly that the way to fight Orcs would be to convert them back into Elves - but this is never done.

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I NEVER said LOTR was a biblical tale, lost in the making of the Bible. That is what you try to mar my words as. If you may read again.....

SaltShaker said:

If you take the time to look and think about it, there are many references to biblical-like events and themes. I have taken but 2, but there are many. Whole books have been written on it.

To say LOTR is about killing is simplistic. I will not deny there WAS killing in it, but to say it is ABOUT that is ludacrisy (sp?). As with any good book, the meaning is not IN the text, but BEHIND the text. You just need to analyze it a little.

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It is not a biblical tale. However, there are themes displayed in the heros that mirror to some biblical themes. When you read LOTR, you read words, it seems, not themes, reactions, and relationships, which are much more interesting.

seeker4Christ said:

Lord of the Rings never displays this love your enemies virtue, and I have yet to find a game about fighting the good fight about evil that does. Find a book or game that displays this virtue, and you have probably found a great game or book.

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You speak as a pacifist. Do you not forget many a war were had in the Bible. If the people of God were hard-pressed, and attacked, would they not go on, with his help, to win the battle? The people of Middle-Earth do not go seeking war, war is brought to them, and they defend themselves lest they and everyone else be swallowed up in this evil.

It is not said they HATE orcs or anything else, but they do not like what an orc brings: A host of friends and weapons to try and hew down their enemys.

seeker4Christ said:

What Bible verses are being lived out in LOTR? Are you saying that whole books have been written about the Christian virtures of LOTR - what are the names of these books? Who are the authors?

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Again I say, not verses, but themes. Love, Patience, Loyalty, Truthfullness are displayed in almost all heros at one time or another, especially in Sam Gangee, in relation to Frodo. Yes, Sam is not perfect, nor are any of the others characters, but neither are you.

SaltShaker said:

It is not a biblical tale. However, there are themes displayed in the heros that mirror to some biblical themes. ...

It is not said they HATE orcs or anything else, but they do not like what an orc brings: A host of friends and weapons to try and hew down their enemys.
...
Again I say, not verses, but themes. Love, Patience, Loyalty, Truthfullness are displayed in almost all heros at one time or another, especially in Sam Gangee, in relation to Frodo. Yes, Sam is not perfect, nor are any of the others characters, but neither are you.

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I think we are in agreement that the LOTR is not a bibicle tale, and far from perfect. Yes there are some moderately good themes in there. I just wish the author had included conversion in some way - say a way to convert orcs back to elves. I enjoyed the books when I first read them, but now I am at a stage in my life journey where I want to read more about conversion and less about fighting...

Melange_Thief said:

seeker4christ has asserted that the rule was to "kill the orcs". I would just like to point out that the orcs were generally trying to kill them first.

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Yes killing in self defense has some merit - but it would be better if they had a way to convert orcs back to elves. I guess I am just on a "convert not kill" kick.

Melange_Thief said:

Also, wouldn't Sauron be something like Satan? They don't negotiate or try to change him because he won't do either. He wants to rule Middle-Earth, and the only dealings are to help him take it, like Saruman did, not pay him to keep a part safe. Unless, of course, you are suggesting that Satan can be saved.

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Sauron could be satan or the antichrist figure. I think the silmarilian mentions an evil more powerful than sauron. You are right, some evil cannot be saved - the antichrist and the devil and the demons cannot be saved. These you just fight. The nazgul where analogous to demons so fighting them would be okay.

Melange_Thief said:

Finally, what about Gandalf? He arrives on the scene, he dies (sort of), and he comes back to save Middle-Earth. Technically, he himself didn't, but without him, none would have known what the ring was (it wouldn't have left Gollum's cave at all), and Sauron could have found it and kept it. So, couldn't Gandalf be a Christ-like figure?

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Yes Gandalf is vaguely Christ-like, although if you get serrious about the Bible teaching against magic, it becomes somewhat distressing that the Christ-figure is a magician.

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a game that you could go around witnessing to people and try to convert them to Christianity. Some people would be harder than others and then there would be some totally against you. You could use stealth moves like instead of talking to them just let them see your life and maybe they would start asking questions and then you could lead them to Christ. There could also be a bonus pack called "Random acts of Kindness v7.77" where you could do nice things for others and let someone else take the credit.

http://cslewis.drzeus.net/
The man who wrote the Chronicle's of Narnia, and good friend of the author of Lord of the Rings. Judge for yourself.

prodigal said:

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a game that you could go around witnessing to people and try to convert them to Christianity. Some people would be harder than others and then there would be some totally against you. You could use stealth moves like instead of talking to them just let them see your life and maybe they would start asking questions and then you could lead them to Christ. There could also be a bonus pack called "Random acts of Kindness v7.77" where you could do nice things for others and let someone else take the credit.

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No, that wouldn't work. Entertainment needs to have conflict. That would just be a dialogue tree maze, most likely.

Sort of like this forum, eh?

prodigal said:

Sort of like this forum, eh?

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Yes, very much like this forum.

prodigal said:

Wouldn't it be cool if there was a game that you could go around witnessing to people and try to convert them to Christianity. Some people would be harder than others and then there would be some totally against you. You could use stealth moves like instead of talking to them just let them see your life and maybe they would start asking questions and then you could lead them to Christ. There could also be a bonus pack called "Random acts of Kindness v7.77" where you could do nice things for others and let someone else take the credit.

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I think that would be cool. I would like to try a game like that.

That would be hard to do cause it would sell very little copies. And would lose money, which we all know the entertainment business wouldn't dream of doing . But there could be some other type of game. The only thing I can think of woul be a city building/strategy war game like Civilization, but the Bible doesn't really have enough wars to give the game flexablity. Also, sadly, simply giving the game a Biblical title would damage it's sales, because most people will strike it immidiately because they won't expect it to be any good. But I'm sure something could be worked out. Something along the lines of Diablo but from a more accurate non-disturbed perspective lol.

seeker4Christ said:

Yes killing in self defense has some merit - but it would be better if they had a way to convert orcs back to elves. I guess I am just on a "convert not kill" kick.

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That is not possible. In the books, orcs were not "tortured elves" as they say in the book, but were made in mockery of them by the Dark Powers of the world. Only the movies say otherwise.

seeker4Christ said:

Sauron could be satan or the antichrist figure. I think the silmarilian mentions an evil more powerful than sauron. You are right, some evil cannot be saved - the antichrist and the devil and the demons cannot be saved. These you just fight. The nazgul where analogous to demons so fighting them would be okay.

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Gandalf also mentions in the third book after Sauron is destroyed that evil will come again.

seeker4Christ said:

Yes Gandalf is vaguely Christ-like, although if you get serrious about the Bible teaching against magic, it becomes somewhat distressing that the Christ-figure is a magician.

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The Istari, the group of five wizards that Gandalf belongs to, were sent by the Valar to protect Middle-Earth. Gandalf used his magic to do so. Christ was concieved by God to save mankind. He used miracles to do so. In a sense, Gandalf's magic could really have its roots in the deity (or -ies, I'm not sure) of Middle-Earth.

It's kinda like orcs = demons, elves = angels. Demons are not converted back to angels. They chose their fate a long time ago.

Earlier in the thread, someone listed Guilty Gear X and X2 as games that "NOBODY" should play.
So there's some revealing clothing stuff going on. And there's violence (it is a fighting game) And Bridget's a guy who's forced to dress like a girl, so he acts like a girl... hard to explain.
But is it really a game that "NOBODY" should play?

GGX2 is a well made game. One of the best recent fighters. I'm not going to pretend that it's the most edifying game ever. Simply put, it's entertainment and that's about it, unless you play in tournaments or at least against people on a regular basis, then it's entertainment and competition.
Should people avoid it? Depends on the person, plain and simple. There's no reason to write it off as a game to avoid simply for a title and 3-4 questionably dressed characters in a game with a 20+ character cast.

If you're a mature adult, whether you're Christian or not, you should be able to buy any game you want.

I think "convert not kill" maybe has a home in Christian games. Personally, I would rather see a good game "made" by christians on the shops that everyone goes to, than a "Christian game" in a Christian Book shop, that only christians are going to play. To me, the latter it not outreach, but does have it's place.

On the "Convert not kill" theory... I like to look at the book of Joshua. Now what did God tell him to do with his enemies?

Ahhh.. a hero of mine that's for sure.

Well, I was once a game freak myself but I don't think you can just come out and say "No you can't play this game.Its not for Christians."
All games have good points and bad points. Its just for that person to decide.
Hope yall can use your conviction to know what is sinful and what isn't.
Leavin You With God's Love,
Erica

All the computer games are a time loss.

HolySpiritWarrior said:

Well, I was once a game freak myself but I don't think you can just come out and say "No you can't play this game.Its not for Christians."
All games have good points and bad points. Its just for that person to decide.
Hope yall can use your conviction to know what is sinful and what isn't.
Leavin You With God's Love,
Erica

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Our conviction is not what says what is sinful, God (aka Jesus Christ) says what sin is and he doesn't change his mind, so should that in turn make for a unchanging standard?