Darwin and fossils

Easy cop out, that has been refuted a thousand times. I fiind it very amusing. If they have been refuted so heavily it should be no problem for you finding the scientific evidence to support your cause and prove me wrong.

Porkw/rice said:

Easy cop out, that has been refuted a thousand times. I fiind it very amusing. If they have been refuted so heavily it should be no problem for you finding the scientific evidence to support your cause and prove me wrong.

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Listen Pork, have a search of this forum and do a little reading, you will find that every single point you have raised has been addressed at length in great detail numerous times. The only "problem" should be finding the patience to do it again.

The real cop out is people who find something that they agree with and that makes them comfortable and never try to learn past that.

porkwithrice said:

earth rotation slowing 2.2 seconds every 100,000 years, life started what 3.5 billion years ago, what would the gravity then be on earth and would it then support life/

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Gravity has nothing to do with the rotational speed of the earth. Don't play with physics unless you know what you are doing.

Now, if you didn't know this, why should we trust the rest of the nonesense you put forth here?

porkwithrice said:

Probably the same amount of faith it takes to believe that the complexity of life was just a huge accident.

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Not accident, a mistake. First you have to start with some DNA. Even though they can not tell you were the DNA comes from. When the DNA goes to copy itself, a mistake has to be made. Well, not just one mistake, actually millions of mistakes that all add up to something different from the origional. This is how you "evolve" from simple, primitive, single cell organisms to advanced, complex organisms with self awareness, feelings, social skills and a desire to explore the world they live in. Copy errors and duplication mistakes.

Probably the same amount of faith it takes to believe that the earth just so happens to be the exact distance from the sun to support life

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It has less to do with the distance from the sun and a lot more to do with a very finely tuned atmosphere that has what they call a green house effect to create perfect conditions to support & maintian life. A balance so delicate that even a change of 1 degree can cause species to become extinct.

porkwithrice said:

earth rotation slowing 2.2 seconds every 100,000 years, life started what 3.5 billion years ago, what would the gravity then be on earth and would it then support life/

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So, three billion years ago that would be 22 (seconds per million years) * 3000 = 66000 seconds, or 18 hours.

So three billion years ago the earth rotated once every 24-18 = 8 hours.

And the problem is what exactly?

Karl - Liberal Backslider said:

So, three billion years ago that would be 22 (seconds per million years) * 3000 = 66000 seconds, or 18 hours.

So three billion years ago the earth rotated once every 24-18 = 8 hours.

And the problem is what exactly?

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I would question the source of his rate. Based on current knowledge, the day at 4.6 million years ago would be around 14 hours long.

http://www.talkorigins.org/faqs/hovind/howgood-yea2.html#proof20

20. Presently, the earth's rotation is slowing down 0.005 seconds per year per year (Thwaites and Awbrey, 1982, p.19). At least Dr. Hovind doesn't use the horrendous rate of 1 second per year which Dr. Walter Brown employed as a result of a total misunderstanding of time keeping. I believe that Dr. Brown discarded that argument upon realizing his error, but don't expect it to disappear from the creationist literature. Only a towering optimist could expect that!

The actual rate of 0.005 seconds per year per year yields, if rolled back 4.6 billion years, a 14-hour day. The subject is a bit tricky the first time around, and I'm indebted to Thwaites and Awbrey (1982) whose fine article cleared away the cobwebs.

Let's do the calculation for 370 million years ago:

((0.005 sec/yr) x (370 million yr))/Year = (1,850,000 sec)/Year
= (21.4 days)/Year

Thus, at 370 million years ago, the earth had 21.4 extra days per year.

The total days then per year were: (365.25 + 21.4)days/Year = 386.65 days/Year.

(8766 hrs/Year)/(386.65 days/Year) = 22.7 hrs/day

If you do the same calculations for 4.6 billion years ago, you'll get the 14 hrs/day given by Drs. Thwaites and Awbrey. Thus, there is no problem here for mainstream science. Indeed, the present rate may be too high:

porkwithrice said:

Easy cop out, that has been refuted a thousand times. I fiind it very amusing. If they have been refuted so heavily it should be no problem for you finding the scientific evidence to support your cause and prove me wrong.

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You will notice that one of your claims has been shown to be incorrect and shows that you don't understand physics and don't have a reliable source. Before we go on and debunk the rest of the stuff you posted, will you rebute this claim or show your evidence? Will you admit that you were wrong about both the effect of the slowing of the earth and its tie to gravity? That would go a long way toward showing us that you really are interested in learning and scientific evidence. If you won't do this, then there really is not reason for us to continue because you are really not here to discuss anything, just put up stuff from poor sources and claim it as true.

Care to continue?

It's a shame too; pork and rice can be so delicious. They don't need this kind of negative association.

JohnR7 said:

Not accident, a mistake. First you have to start with some DNA. Even though they can not tell you were the DNA comes from. When the DNA goes to copy itself, a mistake has to be made. Well, not just one mistake, actually millions of mistakes that all add up to something different from the origional. This is how you "evolve" from simple, primitive, single cell organisms to advanced, complex organisms with self awareness, feelings, social skills and a desire to explore the world they live in. Copy errors and duplication mistakes.

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Yep. Pretty impressive, hmmm?

It has less to do with the distance from the sun and a lot more to do with a very finely tuned atmosphere that has what they call a green house effect to create perfect conditions to support & maintian life. A balance so delicate that even a change of 1 degree can cause species to become extinct.

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And so thousands of species become extinct every year. What's your point?

I thought this thread had to do with Darwin and fossils?
Anyone else getting tired of the "I'm going to ignore the point of the thread, and the evidence in it, to post a random PRATT" attitude of the recent creationists?

Arikay said:

I thought this thread had to do with Darwin and fossils?
Anyone else getting tired of the "I'm going to ignore the point of the thread, and the evidence in it, to post a random PRATT" attitude of the recent creationists?

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"The bombardier beetle is a small insect that is armed with a shockingly impressive defense system. Whenever threatened by an enemy attack, this spirited little beetle blasts irritating and odious gases, which are at 212 degrees F. out from two tail pipes right into the unfortunate face of the would be aggressor. "Dr. Wermann Schildknecht, a German chemist, studied the bombardier beetle to find out how he accomplishes this impressive chemical feat. He learned that the beetle makes his explosive by mixing together two very dangerous chemicals (hydroquinone and hydrogen peroxide). In addition to these two chemicals, this clever little beetle adds another type of chemical known as an inhibitor. The inhibitor prevents the chemicals from blowing up and enables the beetle to store the chemicals indefinitely.

"Whenever our beetle friend is approached by a predator, such as a frog, he squirts the stored chemicals into the two combustion tubes, and at precisely the right moment he adds another chemical (an antiinhibitor). This knocks out the inhibitor, and a violent explosion occurs right in the face of the poor attacker.

"Could such a marvelous and complex mechanism have evolved piecemeal over millions of years? The evolutionist is forced to respond with a somewhat sheepish "yes," but a brief consideration of this opinion will reveal its preposterous nature.

porkwithrice said:

If these transitionary fossils actually existed would we not find lots of them, rather than one here or there by someone who has their whole life invested in proving the evolutionary THEORY?

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Are you insinuating something about evolution by capitalizing all the letters in "THEORY?"

There are many transitional fossils. For example, we have a very rich fossil trove for the reptile-mammal transition. Look up info on "therapsids," or check out: http://genesispanthesis.tripod.com/fossils/rept_mam.html, http://talc.geo.umn.edu/courses/1002/Lecture33_synapsids.html

porkwithrice said:

Sure would take allot of faith for me to believe that someone found a creature that turned into another creature. Probably the same amount of faith it takes to believe that NOTHING blew up and happened to form everything. Probably the same amount of faith it takes to believe that the complexity of life was just a huge accident. Probably the same amount of faith it takes to believe that the earth just so happens to be the exact distance from the sun to support life, perfect location in the Milky Way, at the perfect rotation and tilt.

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Common descent in not based on faith, it is infered from the evidence. Also, you are using the puddle argument, where a puddle ponders how the hole it finds itself in is a perfect fit.

porkwithrice said:

Probably the same amount of faith it would take to believe that the earth would be able to support life millions of years ago since it is loosing its magnetic charge as well as slowly rotating slower at a rate that would not support life millions of years ago, with a moon that is slowly moving further away meaning it would have been touching earth millions of years ago. I don’t think I have that much faith.

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The earth's magnetic field has flipped many times over earth's history, and therefore is not useful as a "clock."

porkwithrice said:

It sure would take a lot of faith to ignore the evidence of human footprints found alongside dino footprints, even crossing in areas. I would then have to ignore the fact that fossils are mixed up with one another, animals that are supposed to be millions of years old found with ones that are supposed to be only thousands.

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Any examples of these?

porkwithrice said:

I would then have to ignore the petrified trees that are found going vertically through numerous layers of earth that are supposed to represent different ages of time.

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Strawman argument. Uniformitarianism does not assume that there are no local floods, mudslides, earthquakes, or volcanic eruptions in the past.

porkwithrice said:

Or I could flip a coin and say Heads God did it and Tails, big accident. If I get tails then I get to do as I please since life has no meaning and we are all just big chunks of recyclable flesh. Hoorah

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Evolutionary theory says nothing about the meaning of life. Ask your pastor about that.

porkwithrice said:

I would like for you to find these examples, it is your theory is it not.

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YOU are the one making the ludicrous assertions.
Therefore the burden of proof rests on you, not others.

Now, either back up your assertions or just stop making them.

porkwithrice said:

I like the way that you said what I said was wrong and did not give examples or reasons why, or it was fake.

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Quite simply because your assertions have been refuted over and over. A bit of research on your part would save you and others a lot of time.

porkwithrice said:

I could say the same for all of evolutionary theory and it would lead nowhere.

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Ironic then that this is precisely what you are doing. You are making assertions with no evidence to back them up.

notto said:

such a marvelous and complex mechanism have evolved piecemeal over millions of years? The evolutionist is forced to respond with a somewhat sheepish "yes," but a brief consideration of this opinion will reveal its preposterous nature

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Why a "sheepish" yes? Why couldnt it have?

Other bugs in the carabid faimily also carry sacks like this. Theirs work by their glands exuding enzymes into pygidial bladders that then empty into their anus'. These however dont expload, and the bombadier beetle is the only carabid beetle to shoot boiling liquid. But the point is these different beetles which live in different ecological enviroments survive well because of their thick walled sacs which enables them to poisen their enemies while keeping themselves safe. The Bombadier beetle has simply had developed an even more deadlier defence mechanism. The hydrogen peroxide would make the insect even more poisonous to eat than it was before, and even if it didnt work all that well at first the system would still be usefull.

Nathan Poe said:

And so thousands of species become extinct every year. What's your point?

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The point is that evolution does not take place in a stable invironment. When the invironment does change it takes place so rapidly, so that there is no time for evolution to take place. Thus your extinction rate would be higher than your new species rate if you were to follow that theory.

Edx said:

Why a "sheepish" yes? Why couldnt it have?

Other bugs in the carabid faimily also carry sacks like this. Theirs work by their glands exuding enzymes into pygidial bladders that then empty into their anus'. These however dont expload, and the bombadier beetle is the only carabid beetle to shoot boiling liquid. But the point is these different beetles which live in different ecological enviroments survive well because of their thick walled sacs which enables them to poisen their enemies while keeping themselves safe. The Bombadier beetle has simply had developed an even more deadlier defence mechanism. The hydrogen peroxide would make the insect even more poisonous to eat than it was before, and even if it didnt work all that well at first the system would still be usefull.

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(it was a joke post) I get my scientific information from something other than Dr. Dino's Diner placemats.

Arikay said:

I thought this thread had to do with Darwin and fossils?
Anyone else getting tired of the "I'm going to ignore the point of the thread, and the evidence in it, to post a random PRATT" attitude of the recent creationists?

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I am. At first I just wanted to hit myself over the head with my keyboard until blood spurted out. Somehow I have managed to resist that urge.

Mechanical Bliss said:

I am. At first I just wanted to hit myself over the head with my keyboard until blood spurted out. Somehow I have managed to resist that urge.

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But without God to tell you right from wrong, what was stopping you, you big evolved monkey?

Sorry about the misguided gravity problems. At the rate of slowing by 2.2 seconds every 100,000 years the earth would take about a second for a rotation in about 3.9 billion years.

Ok, so you must be a joke.
Good joke.
Haha ha ha ha ha