Do you KNOW that your saved?

nobody is saved until u reach heaven
it is a battle,a life long battle
as a christian i have the passport to enter heaven
but i must fight my way there and watch out about my deeds on my way there
i may loose the passport if i am not deserved of it
like sinning

This is what Paul actually said.Phil 2. 12 : "With fear and trembling work out your salvation. . . . COMMENT: No working out needed if there is infallible salvation at one move, taking Christ as Savior. Rom 5. 3-4 "Trouble produces patience, patience produces tested virtue, and tested virtue produces hope." COMMENT:This goes beyond taking Christ as personal Savior. 1 Cor 15. 2 "[The Gospel] through which you are being saved." COMMENT: Sozesthe is present tense, process is going on. Cor 9. 27: "I hit my body under the eyes and lead it around as a slave, lest when I have preached to others, I myself might be rejected." COMMENT:If anyone could be saved by just taking Christ as Savior, Paul would be the one. But he fears he could be rejected if he does not keep his body under control by mortification. We must notice that in context Paul is speaking of final salvation, heaven, not just of some extra, for he has been pleading since chapter 8 to avoid scandal, which would ruin a soul for whom Christ died. This thought continues in 1 Cor 10. 1-12: Paul tells of the old people of God. They did not have it made, many perished. So the new people of God do not have it made because by taking Christ as Savior. They need to be like Christ.

Paul taught that by faith alone we can be saved, and Jesus taught that faith alone is not enough, that we must also do what God wants. Who is right, Paul or Jesus?

James 2:19
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe that--and shudder.

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James 2:26
As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.

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To Neo:

PAUL didn't teach by faith alone, LUTHER did.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Originally posted by VOW
To Neo:

PAUL didn't teach by faith alone, LUTHER did.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

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For example, compare these passages:
Paul: Ephesians 2:8-9, Romans 10:9
Jesus: Matthew 7:21-23

I have many more examples, if you want to see them let me know.

To Neo:

In those verses, Paul speaks about faith through grace, but nothing about faith ALONE. In fact, in 1 Corinthians 3, he talks about the works being tried through fire, with the gold, silver, and precious stones standing the fire test of quality.

Paul also talks of what NOT to do, so as to not jeopardize your salvation. Galatians 5: 19-21


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Im with ya Neo...
Ephesians 2:8  For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:
9  Not of works, lest any man should boast.

Romans 10:9  That if thou shalt confess with thy mouth the Lord Jesus, and shalt believe in thine heart that God hath raised him from the dead, thou shalt be saved.

Matthew 7:21  ¶Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven; but he that doeth the will of my Father which is in heaven.
22  Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name? and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works?
23  And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.
24  Therefore whosoever heareth these sayings of mine, and doeth them, I will liken him unto a wise man, which built his house upon a rock:

I figured i would post themup here for everyone to get your point.
GEL

Faith yes....but I still don't see the word "ALONE."

All mainstream Christian denominations agree that salvation is by faith through grace. The Catholic Church teaches that too.

But faith without works is dead.


Peace be with you,
~VOW

Paul also advocated male chauvinism in the church(1 Corinthians 14:34), condemned homosexuality(1 Corinthians 6:9), and told the church to kill a man who committed adultery (1 Corinthians 5:5), which is in contradiction of Jesus' teachings (John 8:1-11)

Originally posted by Neo
Paul also advocated male chauvinism in the church(1 Corinthians 14:34), condemned homosexuality(1 Corinthians 6:9), and told the church to kill a man who committed adultery (1 Corinthians 5:5), which is in contradiction of Jesus' teachings (John 8:1-11)

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Hi Neo (like the nick by the way),
I am not sure I am following the points you are trying to make here.
How does I Cor 14:34 make Paul out to advocate chauvanism ?
Because I am a woman and I didn't take offense to the scripture at all...

And as far as condemning homosexuality..well that goes without saying. Every religion claiming to be Christian should condemn homosexuality. The bible clear states that it is an abomination.

And then you have that I Cor 5:5 says that Paul told the church to kill a man who committed adultery.. I Cor 5:5 says: "To deliver such an one unto Satan for the destruction of the flesh, that the spirit may be saved in the day of the Lord."

How do you get that Paul is telling the church to kill a man because he committed adultery ?? And so how is this in violation with John 8:1-11 ? That is the story of when the woman was caught in the very act of adultery and the scibes and Pharasies thought she should be stoned and Jesus said "He that is without sin amoung you, let him cast the first stone at her."

At that time the law was actually to stone someone caught in the act of committing adultery..so I don't quite understand your points, though I would really like to...

Please enlighten me at what you are trying to convey because I sincerely would like to understand your points.

Originally posted by MissytheButterfly

And as far as condemning homosexuality..well that goes without saying. Every religion claiming to be Christian should condemn homosexuality. The bible clear states that it is an abomination.

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There's a big thread on this. To make a long story short, it's not clear that this is true in the original Hebrew and Greek; there's substantial room for debate on what is said, or why it's said. Some sources identify Saints Serge and Bacchus as a gay couple, and at least one historian has offered claims that the current general opinion developed over the last thousand years or so, but wasn't in the original dogma.

As to the thing in Corinthians, if I believed it were actual dogma that a woman should never speak in church, I would find it fairly offensive. There's a thread ("Silent in the Church?") in which someone pointed out that much of Corinthians is a lot easier to understand if you read it as Paul first quoting the teachings of the church at Corinth, and then addressing them; in some cases, he appears to think that they were wrong.

Originally posted by niwde
nobody is saved until u reach heaven
it is a battle,a life long battle
as a christian i have the passport to enter heaven
but i must fight my way there and watch out about my deeds on my way there
i may loose the passport if i am not deserved of it
like sinning

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This really doesn't seem to fit; we are repeatedly told that we are all sinners, and that we are saved anyway. Our sins are forgiven.

that mentality is very wrong
no 1 is 100% saved until he is in heaven
even in the last minute before death and u loose the battle
sorry to say bye bye

If someone asks the Lord into their heart and committs themself to the Lord, that doesn't give them a free pass to sin and do whatever they want.
Those who are saved NOW have Christ living in them. It is the motivation of the holy Spirit that gives us our needs, wants and desires to Rejoyce, witness, testify, confess, study the word, tithe, teach, love all in Christ.
I don't think anyone here is saying that once a person is saved, that gives them time to kick up their feet and enjoy a glass of gin and just wait for the day Christ calls us all.
Those who are saved have a job to do.
GEL

Originally posted by niwde
that mentality is very wrong
no 1 is 100% saved until he is in heaven
even in the last minute before death and u loose the battle
sorry to say bye bye
if we think like that we r no different from the jews
who take everything for granted

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I don't really understand the last sentence. How do God's chosen people take everything for granted?

Annabel

The Catholic position on "assurance of salvation" is that we are assured of salvation if we remain in Christ and assured of damnation if we do not. As Jesus says, "Abide in me, and I in you. As the branch cannot bear fruit by itself, unless it abides in the vine, neither can you, unless you abide in me. I am the vine, you are the branches. He who abides in me, and I in him, he it is that bears much fruit, for apart from me you can do nothing. If a man does not abide in me, he is cast forth as a branch and withers; and the branches are gathered, thrown into the fire and burned. If you abide in me, and my words abide in you, ask whatever you will, and it shall be done for you. By this my Father is glorified, that you bear much fruit, and so prove to be my disciples. As the Father has loved me, so have I loved you; abide in my love. If you keep my commandments, you will abide in my love, just as I have kept my Father’s commandments and abide in his love." (John 15:4-10). This means that it is possible for us, even after baptism, to exercise our freedom in such a way as to cut ourselves off from Christ. At the same time, the Church does not believe anybody goes to hell by accident. It takes considerable concentration of will, not a blunder, to get you there. And Jesus is always active, calling us back when we sin.

The basic difference between this conception and common Evangelical "once saved always saved" notions is that it is relational and personal, not legal, abstract and mechanistic. Most Evangelical language about assurance of salvation is born of the fear that we can "lose" our salvation if our relationship with Christ involves our participation in any way ("If it depends on me, I'll just blow it."). The Catholic confidence, like the Evangelical conception, is that salvation does indeed "depend on Christ" but also that Christ, by giving us his Spirit and empowering us supernaturally in baptism and the other sacraments, actually entrusts us with the dignity of being active participants in a real relationship, not merely the passive recipients of an unbreakable legal decree which operates mechanistically no matter what we do, say, or think. In the final analysis, the claim that one "cannot" lose one's salvation is a claim that one has no participation in relationship with Christ. By contrast, in Catholic (and biblical) theology, we become, as 2 Peter 1:4 says, "participants in the divine nature." But because we are real participants, we remain really free.

The paradox of this is that an educated Catholic seldom asks about "assurance of salvation", not because he is "certain he is going to heaven" but because he is not "worrying about tomorrow" (Matthew 6:34). Jesus calls us to hope, not certitude. Hope lives in a present relationship with Christ today and trusts him to order all our tomorrows when they get here. The demand for "assurance of salvation" is really a fretting about the future. It is related to presumption and its evil twin, despair. In Catholic theology, both presumption and despair are the enemies of true Christian hope, for they pre-empt hope by claiming certain knowledge of the end, (i.e. that things will turn out well for us, no matter what, or that things will turn out ill for us and we are doomed). Catholic faith rejects both claims of knowledge and refers us to Christ, not to some theory about what is going to happen in the future. For further reading, I suggest Josef Pieper's On Hope.

In Christ,

Eric

Originally posted by Annabel_Lee


I don't really understand the last sentence. How do God's chosen people take everything for granted?

Annabel

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They don't. Niwde is just an anti-Semite.

Originally posted by Neo

Paul is saying that women should not speak in the Church, implying that women are inferior to men.


They do not choose to be homosexuals, they are born that way, that's how God made them. God does not make mistakes.


He told them to destroy the adulterer and hand him over to Satan.

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Points taken but I still have to disagree. God didn't make anyone gay and then turn around and condemn it in his word..because you are right: He doesn't make mistakes.