What happens to non-Christians when they die?

Neo · Apr 27, 2002

What do you believe happens to non-Christians when they die? If a Buddhist monk lives an exemplary life, devoting all of his time to helping others, will God send him to Hell for an eternity just because he didn't believe in Christ while he was alive?

Nick_Loves_Abba · Apr 27, 2002

Thats what the Bible says. Although to be honest, I don't like the idea of anyone going to hell, but it has to happen. God's ways are not my ways. He does things which we don't understand, but we must trust and have faith that his plan is 100% fool proof. Jesus is the only way.

Aren't there different levels of hell? I remembering seeing some scripture on it.

Also, I thought I also saw some scripture which gave those who had NEVER EVER EVER heard the gospel a way to Heaven.

Eh, I might be wrong on both things.

Neo · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by Nick_Loves_Abba
Thats what the Bible says. Although to be honest, I don't like the idea of anyone going to hell, but it has to happen. God's ways are not my ways. He does things which we don't understand, but we must trust and have faith that his plan is 100% fool proof. Jesus is the only way.

Aren't there different levels of hell? I remembering seeing some scripture on it.

Also, I thought I also saw some scripture which gave those who had NEVER EVER EVER heard the gospel a way to Heaven.

Eh, I might be wrong on both things.

Would a loving God really send a good man to Hell to suffer for eternity just because he didn't believe in Christ while he was alive?

What if one of your friends or family members who you love very much decides to turn away from Christianity to follow Buddhism, and God sent that person to Hell, would Heaven really be Heaven for you if you knew that your friend/family member whom you love is burning in Hell for eternity?

Nick_Loves_Abba · Apr 27, 2002

Would a loving God really send a good man to Hell to suffer for eternity just because he didn't believe in Christ while he was alive?

The Bible says no one deserves Heaven. All of us are without excuse, and none of us is righteous. We can only enter Heaven if we accept the grace of God, and Jesus Christ as our personal savior. We're all given the gift of eteranl happiness, but sadly, not everyone takes the gift.

People send themselves to hell, not God.

What if one of your friends or family members who you love very much decides to turn away from Christianity to follow Buddhism, and God sent that person to Hell, would Heaven really be Heaven for you if you knew that your friend/family member whom you love is burning in Hell for eternity?

No, we won't be sad. Because the bible says there will be no saddness no grief, no anguish, no pain at all in Heaven. I don't know how this is possible, but it is.

Neo · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by Nick_Loves_Abba

The Bible says no one deserves Heaven. All of us are without excuse, and none of us is righteous. We can only enter Heaven if we accept the grace of God, and Jesus Christ as our personal savior. We're all given the gift of eteranl happiness, but sadly, not everyone takes the gift.

People send themselves to hell, not God.

God is all-knowing, so He knew that when He created these people that they would end up in hell, yet He chose to create them anyway, why?

No, we won't be sad. Because the bible says there will be no saddness no grief, no anguish, no pain at all in Heaven. I don't know how this is possible, but it is.

Click to expand...

Maybe God erases our memory of those who are burning in hell, so that we will not grieve over them? I can't imagine any other way.

Craigybabe · Apr 27, 2002

Hey all. What I believe is that all those who have heard of God, Jesus, satan etc; those who have been witnessed to etc, and still don't accept Jesus into their lives will go to Hell no matter how good a life they lead. Theire life won't have been good enough because they made sure that Jesus wasn't apart of it. This goes for Jews, Buddhist, Hindus every religion.
There will be people who call themselves christians that won't go Heaven for various reasons too.

The exception I believe would be in a remote place where people have never heard of God or Jesus e.g. a tribe in the middle o the jungle. Now if they have lead a good life that was acceptable to God's standards then I reckon they'll go to Heaven. It would be our fault us Christians for not bringin the word to those people, so why should they suffer if they have lead a good life?

Just a bit of Food for thought there

God Bless

Craig

Thinker · Apr 27, 2002

Neo-

I've been around the block on this question with several people on this board. The standard christian argument runs:

Good is as God does. Mortals, such as ourselves, can not choose to do Good, as God defines it, even though we have freewill.

Now, this sets up some truly absurd and horrible situations: all through the OT God either commits or orders commited acts that by human standards of `Good' would count as the vilest evil. But because God is the one commiting these atrocities (or they were commited under his command), they automatically count as `Good', or possibly `Just', depending on who's doing the explaining.

To my way of thinking, the christian reasoning on this point is completely and utterly false, with no justification whatsoever. It means calling EVIL acts good, and offers nothing but eternal damnation for acts that would normally be considered Good. I also see it as christians claiming authority for their God that he clearly does not have: they utterly deny that God could have manifested himself to Buddha, or walked among the indians of north america, or offered instruction to some trance channeling new ager. This, of course, is proof of the limited nature of their thinking on this topic.

cheezit · Apr 27, 2002

My idea is that God does not send anyone to Hell. Because of sin we send ourselves to Hell. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to eternal life in Christ. However, He also gave everybody a free will to believe and do as they so choose. Hell was originally made for the devil and his angels. (demons) Those of us that are unsaved also go there because of sin. Sin seperates us from God. By accepting Christ as our saviour, our sin problem is taken care of, allowing us to go to Heaven.

ANITA · Apr 27, 2002

THERE IS NO OTHER NAME BY WHICH WE MAY BE SAVED, BUT THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, THROUGH FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS. OUR GOOD WORKS ARE AS FILTHY RAGS. WE HAVE ALL SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. EVERY MAN.
BUDDA, MOHAMMED, KRISHNA, NONE OF THESE WILL GET ONE INTO HEAVEN. NONE BUT BY BELIEVING ON JESUS.

JohnR7 · Apr 27, 2002

>>If a Buddhist monk lives an exemplary life, devoting all of his time to helping others, will God send him to Hell for an eternity just because he didn't believe in Christ while he was alive?

The Bible says our good works are filthy rags before God. Apart from God, there really is nothing we can do to help anyone. Look at welfare, a program designed to help people, that really did them more harm then good.

If your arguement were valid, IF there was a person who did more good than harm. If you weighed it all on a scale and the good outweighed the bad, then I am sure that person would be judged not guilty.

The problem as I said with that arguement is that apart from Christ, we just are not able to do any good.

Daniel 5:27 Tekel: You have been weighed in the balances, and found wanting;

Neo · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by cheezit
My idea is that God does not send anyone to Hell. Because of sin we send ourselves to Hell. God is not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to eternal life in Christ. However, He also gave everybody a free will to believe and do as they so choose. Hell was originally made for the devil and his angels. (demons) Those of us that are unsaved also go there because of sin. Sin seperates us from God. By accepting Christ as our saviour, our sin problem is taken care of, allowing us to go to Heaven.

Is God malevolent? God is all-knowing, so when He creates each person He knows exactly where they will end up when they die, and He chooses to create people who destined for Hell. Why would a loving God do such a thing? Are certain people really destined for Hell no matter how much good they do in their life?

Did God send Moses and Noah to hell? Did God send the prophets to hell? They were not Christian.

Neo · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by ANITA
THERE IS NO OTHER NAME BY WHICH WE MAY BE SAVED, BUT THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, THROUGH FAITH AND NOT BY WORKS. OUR GOOD WORKS ARE AS FILTHY RAGS. WE HAVE ALL SINNED AND COME SHORT OF THE GLORY OF GOD. EVERY MAN.
BUDDA, MOHAMMED, KRISHNA, NONE OF THESE WILL GET ONE INTO HEAVEN. NONE BUT BY BELIEVING ON JESUS.

Do all Christians agree with ANITA? Is Christianity really an intolerant religion?

You say that Christians are saved by faith in Christ alone, but the Bible says that faith alone is not enough.

Matthew 7:21-23

Not everyone who calls me 'Lord, Lord' will enter the Kingdom of heaven, but only those who do what my Father in heaven wants them to do. When the Judgment Day comes, many will say to me, 'Lord, Lord! In your name we spoke God's message, by your name we drove out many demons and performed many miracles!' Then I will say to them, 'I never knew you. Get away from me, you wicked people!'

James 2:14-17

What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.

JohnR7 · Apr 27, 2002

>>God is all-knowing, so He knew that when He created these people that they would end up in hell, yet He chose to create them anyway, why?

This is pure serpent logic. God will not take the blame for the mess the devil and man made out of His creation. Even my four year old son can say: "Your to blame, you did it". The prisons are filled with people who put the blame off on someone else. The truth is, they made wrong choices and ended up where they ended up at. People make wrong choices and end up in hell. You can not blame God for that, He does all He can to encourage them to make all the right choices. Thanks, JohnR7

Neo · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by JohnR7
This is pure serpent logic. God will not take the blame for the mess the devil and man made out of His creation. Even my four year old son can say: "Your to blame, you did it". The prisons are filled with people who put the blame off on someone else. The truth is, they made wrong choices and ended up where they ended up at. People make wrong choices and end up in hell. You can not blame God for that, He does all He can to encourage them to make all the right choices. Thanks, JohnR7 [/B]

God created good and evil.

Isaiah 45:7
I form the light, and create darkness: I make peace, and create evil: I the LORD do all these things.

Thinker · Apr 27, 2002

Of course, one possible solution would be that there is no Hell, save for that created by the priests and churches, to keep their flocks in line. The `if you do not accept this truth (and the obligations that come with it) you are condemned to eternal torment' argument.

But - who now among the living has been to this `Hell' place and returned with proof it exists? Christians claim that their special connection with God grants them salvation, but this does not constitute proof of Hell, though it might count as an internal proof of heaven. But moslems, jews, new agers, hindu's, buddhists, and others offer similiar internal `proofs' of their divine connections - which in this sense, makes their `proofs' as valid as any the christians can come up with.

Apologist · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by Neo

God is all-knowing, so He knew that when He created these people that they would end up in hell, yet He chose to create them anyway, why?

Just because God knows the beginning from the end does not mean that He fatalistically determines it. For love to be meaningful it has to involve freewill, so God created us with the choice to obey Him or obey ourself. God is giving an unbeliever exactly what they want....to be seperated from Him for all eternity. Even in judgement God gives people what they wanted as an act of His grace. For someone to live their entire lives rebelling against God only to be dragged into His presence in heaven for all eternity would not be heaven for them. It would be hell for them.

Maybe God erases our memory of those who are burning in hell, so that we will not grieve over them? I can't imagine any other way.

I believe that is true, otherwise heaven would not be heaven for believers.

God Bless

Apologist · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by Neo

Is God malevolent? God is all-knowing, so when He creates each person He knows exactly where they will end up when they die, and He chooses to create people who destined for Hell. Why would a loving God do such a thing? Are certain people really destined for Hell no matter how much good they do in their life?

You also have to remember that there are degrees of punishment in hell and degrees of rewards in heaven. Someone who tried to live a good life will not suffer the punishment that Adolf Hitler will suffer. We have to remember that God is infinitely just and will judge with absolute righteousness and holiness.

Did God send Moses and Noah to hell? Did God send the prophets to hell? They were not Christian.

Actually they were "Christians."
Those before Christ looked forward to the cross, those of us after Christ look back to the cross.

"Abraham believed God, and it was accounted to him for righteousness. And he was called the friend of God."
(James 2:23)

Abraham was saved by grace through faith as all of us are.

God Bless

Neo · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by Apologist

Just because God knows the beginning from the end does not mean that He fatalistically determines it. For love to be meaningful it has to involve freewill, so God created us with the choice to obey Him or obey ourself. God is giving an unbeliever exactly what they want....to be seperated from Him for all eternity. Even in judgement God gives people what they wanted as an act of His grace. For someone to live their entire lives rebelling against God only to be dragged into His presence in heaven for all eternity would not be heaven for them. It would be hell for them.

God is not only all-knowing, He is also all-powerful. So, this means that God created people in such a way that He knew would result in their eternal damnation?

Is God willing to prevent evil, but not able?
Then he is not omnipotent.
Is he able, but not willing?
Then he is malevolent.
Is he both able and willing?
Then whence cometh evil?
Is he neither able nor willing?
Then why call him God?
-- Epicurus

You also have to remember that there are degrees of punishment in hell and degrees of rewards in heaven. Someone who tried to live a good life will not suffer the punishment that Adolf Hitler will suffer. We have to remember that God is infinitely just and will judge with absolute righteousness and holiness.

Click to expand...

I hope that you're right.

jrmorganjr · Apr 27, 2002

God prepares vessels of wrath that the vessels of his grace can truly understand & appreciate what they are being saved from. Now, those vessels CHOOSE wrath, and God knew they would, but it was for God's greater glory and good. I think a better translation for the above quote on God creating evil is "I allow evil" - God turns evil's intentions into good. His greater good is done by allowing free will / evil. So in one sense he "created" it by allowing free will, but he is not the direct creator in the sense that he commits it. He allowed for the possibility so that His glory could be increased. For believers, all evil works to their good and eventual glorification through Christ. For non-believers, they're getting the natural results of the sin principle.

On the exact subject, though, I have faith that God is just. Buddhists who have never heard of Jehovah God still have creation and their own moral imprint from God to respond to. Where those scales balance out, I don't know. I tend to think it's not good enough to get into heaven, since you must go through Christ. I'm just not sure how symbolic that "going through Christ" is allowed to be in God's judgement.

case · Apr 27, 2002

Originally posted by JohnR7
>>God is all-knowing, so He knew that when He created these people that they would end up in hell, yet He chose to create them anyway, why?

This is pure serpent logic. God will not take the blame for the mess the devil and man made out of His creation. Even my four year old son can say: "Your to blame, you did it". The prisons are filled with people who put the blame off on someone else. The truth is, they made wrong choices and ended up where they ended up at. People make wrong choices and end up in hell. You can not blame God for that, He does all He can to encourage them to make all the right choices. Thanks, JohnR7

"Serpent logic"? Hmm...I've heard of constructive logic, fuzzy logic, and Boolean logic, but serpent logic is a first.

It's also beside the point. It avoids the issue that God, being omniscient, knew that people would not believe in him. He knew that people would not accept Jesus, and that they would turn to other religions. So why make them? He also, being responsible for everything else, made evil. If evil existed before God, then God isn't all powerful. So God is responsible for evil.

What do I think happens to non-Christians when we die? Well, as an agnostic, I'd have to say that I believe we just die. The end. But I can't be certain. But heaven and hell? Don't believe in them, so I don't think I'll end up in either one.

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