Death Penalty Tossed Over Bible Verses

INFALLIBLE said:

And in many islamic countries the genitals of a male would be chopped off, for sexual immorality.

a persons tounge would be cut off in the case of being found a liar.

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I wonder what would happed if we started cutting the tongues out of perjurers and the genitals off of rapists...?

RThibeault said:

They have aobut 15 years while going through all thier different appeals with which they can accept Christ as their Savior.

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I'm glad God's timetable is more lenient (or at least more trustworthy) than the court systems.

God is patient, and even he allows people to die without coming to accept Christ.

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God allowing something to happen, and me causing something to happen, are two different things.

Did the person being put to death consider whether the person they killed had accepted Christ. Most likely, NOT.

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But we are called to a higher standard.

As far as the OP goes, if this sentence HAD NOT been overturned, then people would be bringing all sorts of religious texts into jury rooms from now on.

mhatten said:

why does the crminals standards matter? Should we always lower our standards to those of whom we are judging in a court of law?

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Who says we are lowering our standards. When we put people to death, we do so in a more humane way than they themselves did. If we were acting in the same way as this rapist/murderer, then we would rape this individual and then put him to death in the same manner that he killed this woman. Instead, we give him a nice little shot to put him to sleep so that he does not wake up.

Christi said:

I'm glad God's timetable is more lenient (or at least more trustworthy) than the court systems. God allowing something to happen, and me causing something to happen, are two different things.
But we are called to a higher standard.

As far as the OP goes, if this sentence HAD NOT been overturned, then people would be bringing all sorts of religious texts into jury rooms from now on.

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And is that necessarily a bad thing?

RThibeault said:

And is that necessarily a bad thing?

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I don't know. I'm not willing to risk it.

To most Americans, being sentenced by the standards of anything other than the law would be unAmerican.

Christi said:

I don't know. I'm not willing to risk it.

To most Americans, being sentenced by the standards of anything other than the law would be unAmerican.

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Well then, most Americans believe the death penalty is a standard of the law.

RThibeault said:

Well then, most Americans believe the death penalty is a standard of the law.

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Exactly!!!!!!!!!!


Although it doesn't conform to my religious beliefs, I have to accept it. The same way that a sentence gets overturned because the law was broken!

You DO get it!

RThibeault said:

Who says we are lowering our standards. When we put people to death, we do so in a more humane way than they themselves did. If we were acting in the same way as this rapist/murderer, then we would rape this individual and then put him to death in the same manner that he killed this woman. Instead, we give him a nice little shot to put him to sleep so that he does not wake up.

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Murder is murder. There are NO "humane" ways to commit murder. That is yesteryear rhetoric aimed at assuaging the reality of the situation.

When we put someone to death we are WORSE than the rapist/murderer. The reason is because the convicted person is obviously very sick, that is why he committed the crime. In our self-righteous indignation we cry out for JUSTICE!! (What is ironic by use of the OT is that if God delivered upon us the justice we deserve, we would all be dead now and forever.)

Who are we to define justice either by our own standards or by use of the OT while ignoring the Grace of the NT?

The reason is because the convicted person is obviously very sick, that is why he committed the crime.

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Hrm. I'm sure the people that Gary Ridgeway killed would be happy to hear that he's sick, except for the fact that they're slightly dead, so lets just write Gary Ridgeway a prescription for penicillin and go home feeling all enlightened.

Or we could string him up so that some other parents won't have to hear the news that he was released on some technicality and killed another person.

Personally, I'm for stretching his neck.

Redneck said:

Hrm. I'm sure the people that Gary Ridgeway killed would be happy to hear that he's sick, except for the fact that they're slightly dead, so lets just write Gary Ridgeway a prescription for penicillin and go home feeling all enlightened.

Or we could string him up so that some other parents won't have to hear the news that he was released on some technicality and killed another person.

Personally, I'm for stretching his neck.

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It is horrible what Ridgeway did, but we won't/can't change it by murdering him like he murdered his victims.

No one is saying ANYTHING as outlandish as a penicillin prescription, and to try and twist such things only negates the validity of an argument.

Is it okay to murder innocent people just so we may have the illusory satisfaction of murdering the guilty ones?

It is horrible what Ridgeway did, but we won't/can't change it by murdering him like he murdered his victims.

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If he's dead, there's a pretty good chance that he's never going to kill anyone else. Ever. Same goes for any other murderer.

Redneck said:

If he's dead, there's a pretty good chance that he's never going to kill anyone else. Ever. Same goes for any other murderer.

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Maybe this question was missed in the post the first time.

Is it okay to murder innocent people just so we may have the illusory satisfaction of murdering the guilty ones?

Since we want to murder the guilty ones for murdering the innocent, shouldn't we also be murdered for murdering the innocent?

Neverstop said:

It is horrible what Ridgeway did, but we won't/can't change it by murdering him like he murdered his victims.

No one is saying ANYTHING as outlandish as a penicillin prescription, and to try and twist such things only negates the validity of an argument.

Is it okay to murder innocent people just so we may have the illusory satisfaction of murdering the guilty ones?

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It happens all the time. God himself made provision for this in the Old Testament. God made certain sins punishable by death. God provided man with the authority to judge another's guilt. Did Jesus, before he was crucified make any statements against the death penalty he received. NO. Did he make any political statement against those who put the thieves on those crosses next to him? NO. So to say, the death penalty is unChristian is wrong.

Before you bring up the argument of the woman caught in adultery. Remember to look at the context. The leaders brought the woman to be stoned. What did he write in the sand? And where was the man she was caught in adultery with?

RThibeault said:

It happens all the time. God himself made provision for this in the Old Testament. God made certain sins punishable by death. God provided man with the authority to judge another's guilt.

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How do we pick and choose what laws of the OT we are to follow, and those we ignore? Where did God make provisions for the DP in the New Testament? In fact, God said, "It has been written, an eye for an eye..." Most of us are familiar with that statement by God. Clearly, God changed the law. To "Pray for our enemies" does not mean we allow people to commit murder and then sit down and have an ice cream cone with them. It means we prevent them from access to the means of doing it again until we can heal them, or maybe they spend the rest of their natural lives in prison.

Did Jesus, before he was crucified make any statements against the death penalty he received. NO.

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This question always greatly confounds me. Why even ask if Jesus said anything against it? It was his PURPOSE by his choice through his obedience.

Did he make any political statement against those who put the thieves on those crosses next to him? NO. So to say, the death penalty is unChristian is wrong.

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What was he supposed to say? "Hey, this is my purpose, but get these two down because the DP is wrong?" They would have mocked him even MORE. Furthermore, he had already addressed the DP in at least two different ways to the disciples and a crowd of people. The death penalty goes against everything Christ taught/teaches us because it is murder. Just because we have made it legal doesn't mean it isn't murder.

Before you bring up the argument of the woman caught in adultery. Remember to look at the context. The leaders brought the woman to be stoned. What did he write in the sand? And where was the man she was caught in adultery with?

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What did he write in the sand? Is that recorded in scripture?

I'm actually glad you brought up the adulterous woman because once we play the argument through, we will see how this is another time that Jesus recanted the DP. I don't know what he wrote in the sand, but I do know he said "Let he who is without sin cast the first stone." On that point, he is saying that whoever is perfect may be the person(s) who execute the woman. Are any of us perfect?

The missing man is the second thrust of Jesus' message. If God wanted to keep the DP, why didn't God have the man fetched? Surely, Jesus being God would not need a Pharisaic Commission Investigation to find this mysterious man. Jesus knew who the man was, and if we argue he didn't, then by implication we are saying Jesus was not God.

This, at least to me, is so obvious. If God wanted to make sure the DP was still ordered by God, why wouldn't God have the woman held until the man could be brought to stand next to her? Since Jesus is God, God did not follow God's Law, right? The only logical answer is that Jesus was obeying God because the DP had been removed. There is a direct correlation between this and our Salvation. Since God decided to Grace us all by sparing our eternal deaths, why is it so far fetched to believe God wants us to show the same love to each other by not committing murder in the name of Justice?

I oppose the death penalty -- I guess that makes me un-American.

CR0C0DILE said:

I saw that/ Next they just won't allow Christians on Juries at all.

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Do you know what it means to be objective?

morningstar2651 said:

I oppose the death penalty -- I guess that makes me un-American.

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Nah, it just means you have differing views.

RThibeault said:

It happens all the time. God himself made provision for this in the Old Testament. God made certain sins punishable by death. God provided man with the authority to judge another's guilt. Did Jesus, before he was crucified make any statements against the death penalty he received. NO. Did he make any political statement against those who put the thieves on those crosses next to him? NO. So to say, the death penalty is unChristian is wrong.

Before you bring up the argument of the woman caught in adultery. Remember to look at the context. The leaders brought the woman to be stoned. What did he write in the sand? And where was the man she was caught in adultery with?

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Let's assume you're right for a moment and asume that the death penalty is Biblical. Our justice system in the US that administers it surely isn't. That's a huge part of the argument against it. Although there are surely other reasons that have been presented on this thread and others in great detail.

morningstar2651 said:

I oppose the death penalty -- I guess that makes me un-American.

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No, you are entitled to your own opinion on the death penalty. That doesn't make you un-American. I just stated the majority of Americans are for the death penalty.

What I resent is the implication that because I am for the death penalty I am unenlightened, un-christian, barbarian.

WalksWithChrist said:

Let's assume you're right for a moment and asume that the death penalty is Biblical. Our justice system in the US that administers it surely isn't. That's a huge part of the argument against it. Although there are surely other reasons that have been presented on this thread and others in great detail.

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The justice system of Christ's day was even worse. You had the Pharisees, you had Pilate, and you had Herod. And yet Christ did not argue the death penalty. In fact it was because of this penalty we are saved.