Witchcraft...Wicca...Satanism?
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ChristianYou know what sounds like magic to me. Healing of hands, talking in toungues, handling snakes and casting out demons. Christianity is involved heavily in magic. They get the power from God. Wiccans also get their power from god. Is it the same god? Perhaps wiccans get their power from demons. Well I believe that some christian denominations are just as likely to get power from demons as any wiccan is.
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I DON'T BELIEVE THERE IS A SUCH THING AS AN EX-CHRISTIAN. ONCE WE ARE SAVED AND BELONG TO CHRIST, SCRIPTURE SAYS THAT NO ONE CAN TAKE US FROM HIM. TO BE SAVED AND BE A CHRISTIAN, ONE MUST REPENT OF THEIE SINS, ADMIT THEY ARE A SINNER AND ASK JESUS TO COME INTO THEIR HEART AND LIFE AND SAVE THEM FROM ETERNAL HELL. IF ONE WERE TRULY SAVED, TURNING AROUND AND LATER CHOSING HELL JUST WOULD NOT BE AN OPTION. I THINK MAYBE THOSE WHO CLAIM TO BE AN EX-CHRISTIAN, WERE NEVER SAVED IN THE FIRST PLACE. THERE IS NO OTHER NAME BY WHICH WE MAY BE SAVED BUT THE NAME OF JESUS CHRIST, AND THERE IS NO OTHER WAY TO HEAVEN.
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My exwife is Wiccan. I believe that God took me out of our marriage so that I could get closer to Him instead of continue in the way I was headed.
I believe that any religion that doesn't recognize Christ as our Savior, and our need for salvation, is from Satan and is intended to deceive as many of His children as possible. There are no white witches, just deceived ones.
I believe that any religion that doesn't recognize Christ as our Savior, and our need for salvation, is from Satan and is intended to deceive as many of His children as possible. There are no white witches, just deceived ones.
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That is a personal attack and against the forum rules!
If "there are no white witches, just deceived ones" then there is no truth in Christianity, just lies.
Ex
PS What did you do to her? You must have been a horrible husband b/c she would not have gotten a divorce otherwise. "...true in love ye must ever be, lest thy love be false to thee..." the Wiccan rede
I mean no offense.
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I cant tell wether you are defending us or Christians but just to clarify, as a wiccan I know where the power I use comes from and it is NOT from demons. Satanism yes, they take their power from demons and negative energies but not wiccans.
Blessed Be in your search for the truth!
~Ex
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MissytheButterfly
Back and Better than EVER!
Please be considerate of eachother's beliefs. Particularly ex-christian and ljamdtina.
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jrmorganjr
Paladin
Wow, ex-Christian, talk about the kettle calling the pot black, all puns intended! If that's not a personal attack!
Someone holding the belief that all witches are deceived is not a personal attack, it is a faith statement based on interpretation directed at a group . Note group, not "personal". There wasn't even an attack per se, but an opinion on the ID of the source of their beliefs.
Anyway, here we have this common propoganda again that all wiccan are perfect and believe the same thing. No wiccan could ever act contrary to their belief system, could they? They are all perfect, wiccan-sinless beings, right? *Please* All are sinful, wiccan & Christain.
I can't even begin to make sense of this proof. Are you just saying that if one person makes a blanket statement, then another is allowed to make a similar blanket statement, and if one is true, the other is? That's completely illogical. Just an attack, pro forma, I presume. The writer stated why he said there were no white witches. What similar reason do you have for stating there is no truth in Christianity?
Thoroughly perplexed at the self-contradictory nature of your post,
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That was not a personal attack and if it violates the forum rules, then there is no room for real communications here.
My ex-wife, with whom I am still good friends, is also an ex-Christian. I lived with her, I know her ways, what she believes. I know her Wicca friends and how they live. I'm from the state where there are more covens than anywhere else in America. My daughter is exposed to my Christian faith on the weekends and to her mom's faith during the week. I'm grateful that my daughter chooses to believe in Christ and fears witchcraft. She has seen what it has done to her mom - the clinical depression, her apathy about work or anything unrelated to her faith. She knows about her mom's previous abortions and she hears her mom speak of Jesus as only a teacher and Satan as a myth. She has had nightmares because of the demons her mom has allowed into their home. We both love her, and she reluctantly accepts our prayers on her behalf.
These are facts based on personal knowledge, not some personal attack on yourself. When I said that my wife was an ex-Christian, what I really mean is that she grew up in a church and she attended Sunday school and heard her parents say grace before meals. But she never gave her life to Christ, and I believe that most 'ex-Christians' are the same way. Association with believers is not the same as being a believer. If you ever had that relationship, I'm sorry for offending you, and even more sorry that something pulled you out of that relationship.
My ex-wife, with whom I am still good friends, is also an ex-Christian. I lived with her, I know her ways, what she believes. I know her Wicca friends and how they live. I'm from the state where there are more covens than anywhere else in America. My daughter is exposed to my Christian faith on the weekends and to her mom's faith during the week. I'm grateful that my daughter chooses to believe in Christ and fears witchcraft. She has seen what it has done to her mom - the clinical depression, her apathy about work or anything unrelated to her faith. She knows about her mom's previous abortions and she hears her mom speak of Jesus as only a teacher and Satan as a myth. She has had nightmares because of the demons her mom has allowed into their home. We both love her, and she reluctantly accepts our prayers on her behalf.
These are facts based on personal knowledge, not some personal attack on yourself. When I said that my wife was an ex-Christian, what I really mean is that she grew up in a church and she attended Sunday school and heard her parents say grace before meals. But she never gave her life to Christ, and I believe that most 'ex-Christians' are the same way. Association with believers is not the same as being a believer. If you ever had that relationship, I'm sorry for offending you, and even more sorry that something pulled you out of that relationship.
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To continue in this run of pseudo-personal attacks, I feel I need to comment on this quote, piece by piece.
Bear in mind that I do not intend to make concrete judgements about you or your family, but instead I am commenting on the situation as I have interpreted in your posts.
Yet you have raised your daughter to fear her faith... and possibly the woman herself. Children tend to fear individuals who hold so-called evil beliefs in addition to the belief itself. For example, I feared Gorbachev, in addition to the USSR and its oftentimes harmful philosophies forced on its citizens, when I was a kid 'cause my mom was so vehemently anti-communist.
See my previous statement about fear.
Okay the second part of that sentence about apathy I can't explain, although it certainly does not coincide with any Wiccan beliefs I know of. A person is supposed to hold their own life and the things they do with their life in more immediate importance than they hold the Goddess/God in Wicca... correct me if I'm wrong, Wiccans. I'm Celtic Pagan so there are a few differences in our beliefs.
As for the part about depression, please don't tell me you think disease is caused by evil spirits... because equating illness to following a religion apart from Christianity would suggest you hold such an outdated idea.
Personal story: my clinical depression lessened after leaving Christianity.
The abortion question is indeed a quandary among many pagans. On the one hand, we believe each person has a special spirit within them that should be allowed to grow and flourish. In Celtic beliefs, whenever a person is born on this world (which we call Abred), someone had to have died in the Dark Otherworld (Annwn)... so aborting a child can potentially be seen as making the death of the Annwn resident meaningless. But on the other hand, we believe in quality of life over quantity of it. I guess it comes down to a personal decision in every case.
But wait a minute... you said "her mom's previous abortions"... that would imply she had these abortions prior to giving birth to your daughter. You also said she is an ex-Christian... so how long ago did she become ex-Christian? Were those abortions performed after or before that time? If before, then you can't say Wicca is to blame.
Also, about Satan. Wiccans do not believe in the Christian devil, or any sort of supremely evil being... would you prefer your wife lie to your daughter about the beliefs of Wicca?
I can't verify or debunk this claim of course. But I will say that demons go with bad dreams about as well as evil spirits go with disease... medieval myths.
But again, I don't mean to judge your life, yet I still felt like what I said had to be said.
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First of all, I have not raised my daughter to fear her mom's faith. She chose to follow Christ, she accepted Christ, she was baptized because she wanted to be. She has never heard me demean her mother, nor her mother me. You read between lines that aren't there.
There are people on this site who can tell you personal stories about evil spirits, possibly exorcisms - I can't attest to that, but I've witnessed a man possessed storm into our church and hurl animal bones on the altar and curse the preacher. The presence of evil was palpable....but my own experiences can't be real because they conflict with yours. I've talked to honest men who have encountered people possessed who spoke in other voices and the person not have any awareness of anything said or done while possessed.
My exwife refuses to believe in evil spirits although she believes in angels and in elves, fairies and all sorts of 'good' spirits. For her to admit that there are evil spirits means she would have to accept that Satan is just as real. What doesn't fit harmoniously into her faith is dismissed, although she can't prove these good spirits any better than she can disprove evil ones.
I don't know why your depression lessened, but the Bible speaks of God hardening the hearts of those who turn their backs on Him. It teaches that you can't crucify Christ a second time and some scholars believe that the unforgiveable sin is to grieve the Holy Spirit by forcing Him to leave you. This is something He does very reluctantly and only after He knows you're not going to change.....it's over my head. If you're less depressed, good. But my ex is on four Prozac per day and has seen a couselor every week for over ten years, long before I met her. So, yes, I do believe that evil spirits attack people and cause worry, depression and sometimes physical harm.
The abortions occured after my ex left the church and sought her own way, eventually settling on wicca. She left the church because she felt it was irrelevant to her life at the time. That's a problem church's haven't resolved yet. But back to my ex's problems with depression which her psychiatrist said were attributed in part to her guilt over the abortions. That's understandable, but she's had a beautiful daughter for the past ten years in whom she's found great joy and peace.
How is it that I'm supposed to accept Annwn as fact when you dismiss demons and evil spirits as myth?
The real issue here is not whether there are demons or not. The real issue is whether God is real and whether He came to earth in the form of Jesus of Nazareth to make a way for man to be reunited with the Father in Heaven. If there is no evil then God lied and Jesus wasted His time. If this existence is that benign, then God need not chase after us, let alone send His Son to suffer on our behalf. If evil is just wrong and good is just right, then why believe in any higher power or authority?
There are people on this site who can tell you personal stories about evil spirits, possibly exorcisms - I can't attest to that, but I've witnessed a man possessed storm into our church and hurl animal bones on the altar and curse the preacher. The presence of evil was palpable....but my own experiences can't be real because they conflict with yours. I've talked to honest men who have encountered people possessed who spoke in other voices and the person not have any awareness of anything said or done while possessed.
My exwife refuses to believe in evil spirits although she believes in angels and in elves, fairies and all sorts of 'good' spirits. For her to admit that there are evil spirits means she would have to accept that Satan is just as real. What doesn't fit harmoniously into her faith is dismissed, although she can't prove these good spirits any better than she can disprove evil ones.
I don't know why your depression lessened, but the Bible speaks of God hardening the hearts of those who turn their backs on Him. It teaches that you can't crucify Christ a second time and some scholars believe that the unforgiveable sin is to grieve the Holy Spirit by forcing Him to leave you. This is something He does very reluctantly and only after He knows you're not going to change.....it's over my head. If you're less depressed, good. But my ex is on four Prozac per day and has seen a couselor every week for over ten years, long before I met her. So, yes, I do believe that evil spirits attack people and cause worry, depression and sometimes physical harm.
The abortions occured after my ex left the church and sought her own way, eventually settling on wicca. She left the church because she felt it was irrelevant to her life at the time. That's a problem church's haven't resolved yet. But back to my ex's problems with depression which her psychiatrist said were attributed in part to her guilt over the abortions. That's understandable, but she's had a beautiful daughter for the past ten years in whom she's found great joy and peace.
How is it that I'm supposed to accept Annwn as fact when you dismiss demons and evil spirits as myth?
The real issue here is not whether there are demons or not. The real issue is whether God is real and whether He came to earth in the form of Jesus of Nazareth to make a way for man to be reunited with the Father in Heaven. If there is no evil then God lied and Jesus wasted His time. If this existence is that benign, then God need not chase after us, let alone send His Son to suffer on our behalf. If evil is just wrong and good is just right, then why believe in any higher power or authority?
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But how am I supposed to accept demons and evil spirits when you dismiss Annwn?
To be honest, I don't really care. But you see how your question can be turned around.
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ljmandtina...You said that your ex-wife can't believe in evil because then she would have to accept that there is a "Satan". Am I correct? If so, I was wondering what tradition of Wicca she followed? The reason I'm asking is because I am Pagan but I know that evil is present. I do know of Wiccans that don't believe in evil which I kinda find very odd. Most, if not all traditions that I know about, teach if there is good then there must be evil. You are correct that Pagans/Wiccans dont believe in Satan. There can still be evil with no Satan *I'm stating that from a Pagan belief*.
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I've never heard her speak of a certain type of wicca. She does use rune stones, tarot cards, crystal ball, worships nature; celebrates the Feast of the Dead, that sort of thing. She's visited mediums and I think dealt with potions.
She is intelligent and educated. She supports Green Peace and the Sierra Club but she voted for President Bush because he supports the Second Amendment and because she had no confidence in his opponent. What I'm getting at is that she doesn't fit any box that one thinks of when they say 'witch'.
I think she believes in the spirit world, moreso ghosts of deceased persons than spiritual beings. I'm sure she thinks Jonathan Edwards is able to communicate with the 'other side'.
Don't know if that narrows it down or not.
She is intelligent and educated. She supports Green Peace and the Sierra Club but she voted for President Bush because he supports the Second Amendment and because she had no confidence in his opponent. What I'm getting at is that she doesn't fit any box that one thinks of when they say 'witch'.
I think she believes in the spirit world, moreso ghosts of deceased persons than spiritual beings. I'm sure she thinks Jonathan Edwards is able to communicate with the 'other side'.
Don't know if that narrows it down or not.
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Yikes, ljmandtina, that hardly sounds like Wicca at all.
It much more closely resembles all that "New-Age" stuff that I, personally, find to be a great mockery of Earth religions.
It much more closely resembles all that "New-Age" stuff that I, personally, find to be a great mockery of Earth religions.
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Here I am!!!!
Merry Meet and Blessed be!
I am wiccan and I can tell you that New Age is an umbrella term that *some* people might put over Wicca. The reality is, that wicca is neo pagan earth based religion. Yes many things in New Age and Wicca are similar but also many things differ.
For example, when I used to be catholic I would say that I was catholic, but I was interested in all that "new age stuff" eventually I realized that Christianity was not where I saw the truth (NOTE: I did NOT say that christianity is not true) and discovered wicca. It took me a while to fully embrace it because even though at that point in any christians eyes I would not be considered catholic, I still called myself that, and I had been raised all my life as a catholic.
Well here I am! Much happier I must say.
I read some of the previous posts: She does not sound like a very Wiccan person to me. She might just call herself that. I cant really say b/c I dont know her.
Well gtg 2 bed I am very tired and I have to wake up early
Blessed Be!
SolDourado
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jrmorganjr
Paladin
Thanks for the info, soldourado. How would you compare witchcraft & wiccan? Druidism & wicca?
Do you believe in Christ, do you feel you had to walk away from the Christian God to follow your path? I've met a few wiccans who like to try to walk the middle of the road and somewhat reconcile the two. I don't think that's legitimate, mind you, but each one of the wiccans who held on to their Christianity in some way was a thoroughly nice and enjoyable sort of person, on the human scale.
Again, thanks for joining in.
Do you believe in Christ, do you feel you had to walk away from the Christian God to follow your path? I've met a few wiccans who like to try to walk the middle of the road and somewhat reconcile the two. I don't think that's legitimate, mind you, but each one of the wiccans who held on to their Christianity in some way was a thoroughly nice and enjoyable sort of person, on the human scale.
Again, thanks for joining in.
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