Death Penalty Tossed Over Bible Verses

crazyfingers said:

It's not about Church State separation. It's about the laws that guide decisions on death penalty vs life in prison. Colorado state law is the applicable law. The bible is not. Neither is Nigerian law or Russian law or French law. Had the jurors consulted French laws in their decision it would have been equally inappropriate.

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I can agree with a portion of this. But, It almost seems like we are expecting these incarcerated individuals to change and repent. Thats like spitting in the ocean and expecting the water level to raise. If they have no desire to do so, Then why force the issue ?? It won't happen as long as they want to stay where they are, get 3 hots and a cot on US. If they want to kill each other while in prison, What are we going to be able to change ?? Nothing, It has to come from inside them first. They have to have the desire to change. They have to accept the terms and conditions of what they did. After all, We didn't commit a crime and frame them ?? It is called accountability. For your own actions.

Christi said:

Right. But we can be patient as "God is patient, wishing all to come to salvation.."

(BTW, your little boy is cute as he can be. He makes me want to move to where ever y'all are, to babysit him, and spoil him rotten! I've got suckers and gum and I'm not afraid to use them. )


Crazyfingers, your avatar is priceless, too!!!! That is one p.o.'d kitty!

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Yeah, My son is going to be 3 the last of May. He is a handful most days.
God is patient, I agree. But, If these criminals don't want to take advantage of what he is offering, We can't make them. They need to have the change of heart. They need to need the grace he offers. It is in their hands ultimately what will happen.

I'ddie4him said:

Yeah, My son is going to be 3 the last of May. He is a handful most days.
God is patient, I agree. But, If these criminals don't want to take advantage of what he is offering, We can't make them. They need to have the change of heart. They need to need the grace he offers. It is in their hands ultimately what will happen.

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I don't disagree with that at all, really.

Do you remember the Carla Fay Tucker case? Many conservative Christians, including Pat Robertson, were on the bandwagon to save her. At that time, I was pro-death penalty and thought the rules shouldn't be changed for anyone. Now I think they should be changed for everyone, simply because they may have been put here for a higher purpose than we can see. We don't know the end of the story.

Ok, I'm way off topic, now, but sorta not. We all take our beliefs into the jury room with us. And as proven by us, Christians can biblically come to different conclusions. I can understand how a court decision would be overturned by people bringing any materials into a jury room that could be interpreted as being more persuasive than the law. Maybe when it comes to the point that we have to choose ........ well, then, we have to choose.

Christi said:

Am I the only Christian here against the death penalty?

I hope that they have a chance to come to know Jesus.
He died for their sins, as He did mine.

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I am against it too Christi.

BLESSEDBETHEMEEK said:

are there any situations in which you would support the death penalty?
what if your child was raped and murdered?
what if a person killed numerous people and ate them?
what if a person was a terrosit and killed thousands ?

would you support it then?

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I wouldn't.

mhatten said:

I am against it too Christi.

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Thank goodness you showed up! I was getting skeered in here alone!!!!


Not really, Iddie's not mean!

P.S.

Christi said:

Thank goodness you showed up! I was getting skeered in here alone!!!!


Not really, Iddie's not mean!

P.S.

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I'm just a big softy at heart.

I remember this case well. He kidnapped her, raped her for hours, she escaped from him. Another motorist picked her up as she was flagging her down on the highway. They were driving to the police station and the perp, who followed them, shot the driver, paralyzing her, and re-kidnapped Rhonda, all right in the front lawn of the police station. The paralyzed woman testified against him in court. There was a massive search for Rhonda for days, until she was finally found, dead, in a field by a farmer.

He (Robert) was also linked to another kidnapped murdered woman, but no case was brought as he was given the death penalty here.

That case brought this town to its knees for awhile, at least until Columbine.


Now, as for the topic, what if someone actually remembers the Bible verses, and doesn't need to bring the Bible in. Are they ineligible too?

BLESSEDBETHEMEEK said:

I wonder if the murderer has ever claimed to be a christian? If so why would he now when faced with the repercussions of his actions go against the bibles teachings....

Either way eye for a eye and tooth for a tooth.

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Just a thought...so should the offender first be raped also then killed?

Christi said:

Am I the only Christian here against the death penalty?

I hope that they have a chance to come to know Jesus.
He died for their sins, as He did mine.

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No, you're not! I'm with you sister. = )

Christi said:

There are probably honest and well-meaning positions on each side of this debate. I was just giving my opinion, based on how Jesus treated criminals when He was here. I used to be very pro-death penalty, but after alot of honest soul-searching examining my motives and much prayer, I changed my mind on this. I do respect the opinion of the other side and see how it is reached.

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Ditto.

RThibeault said:

No, I was just stating a fact concerning real inmates. Working in a prison, I feel I am more in tuned to what goes on with the dregs of society.

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Those "dregs", like you and me, were created in God's image.

RThibeault said:

As for me. I am all for the death penalty. Please allow me the right to express mine without being labeled as "cruel, inhumane, barbaric, immoral, and absolutely horrendous." I prefer to hold those terms for some of the people I have to deal with on a daily basis.

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While they may commit "cruel, inhumane, barbaric, immoral, and absolutely horrendous" crimes, I feel it is not Christ's desire that we call them names. I feel Christ calls us to compassion and mercy. Vegence is not for us to decide. Christ teaches us to not only love our friends, family and fellow Christians, but that we should LOVE our enemy the same as we love ourselves. It was, and still is, a very radical teaching that we treat those that we hate and detest with compassion and love.

BLESSEDBETHEMEEK said:

I just spent eight hours behind the gates protecting YOU and the rest of the public from hundreds of rapists, killers and other habitual criminals...
But if you would like maybe they can move next to you or live with you since you think they are such upstanding people.

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The thread is about the death penalty, not abolishing the prison system.

BLESSEDBETHEMEEK said:

People who are sentenced to life in prison are the walking dead, There needs to be a ultimate price to pay for some of the "ultimate" crimes that are commited.

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AND

I'ddie4him said:

You raise some decent points here, But, If they don't want to change and accept what has been offered. Then we cannot force them to do so. it is their decision and their decision alone to change. We cannot make them do so. Right ??

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First, I'm not aware of any ultimate price worse than eternal damnation. How can we make a worse punishment than hell? Secondly, is repentance and forgiveness a one-time, take-it-or-leave-it offer?

The funny thing about reading this thread is that there are many here that want God i government, until it goes against one of their beliefs. Post the ten commandments, but don't allow jurors to bring a Bible into jury deliberations.

But I don't remember who said but I remember someone said that Jesus said to follow the law of the land, but if the law of the land required you to curse God, urinate on the Cross, and fornicate with five government appointed subjects, both male and female, should you just follow the law?

BLESSEDBETHEMEEK said:

Tell that to the victim..oh wait...she was raped for hours then shot to death..

He should be tried and executed for the crime that he commited, The Jurors were only using their beleif system to help THEM come to the conclusion to support or not support the death penalty for this convicted murderer. and his actions.

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Let's pretend that I was a juror and read through the Scriptures; and from my interpretation of those Scriptures determined the man should NOT be put to death.

Based on my belief system, should I be allowed to be a juror in that trial?

Or should I be allowed to be a juror only if my interpretation of Scripture supports the death penalty?

(I'll maintain that there is a possibility that the juror/s were examining Scriptural arguments for and against the death penalty, simply because there are those of us who believe there is more than one way to interpret Scripture and have a viable interpretation.)

And that's exactly why so many of us like you.

UberLutheran said:

And that's exactly why so many of us like you.

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AW GEE, Thanks Mark.

UberLutheran said:

Let's pretend that I was a juror and read through the Scriptures; and from my interpretation of those Scriptures determined the man should NOT be put to death.

Based on my belief system, should I be allowed to be a juror in that trial?

Or should I be allowed to be a juror only if my interpretation of Scripture supports the death penalty?

(I'll maintain that there is a possibility that the juror/s were examining Scriptural arguments for and against the death penalty, simply because there are those of us who believe there is more than one way to interpret Scripture and have a viable interpretation.)

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Interesting...

Matthew 5:38 said:

“You have heard that it was said, ‘Eye for eye, and tooth for tooth.’But I tell you, Do not resist an evil person. If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also.

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That doesn't seem to be pro-death penalty, but some OT verses do.

I'm guessing they used the latter verses in discussion.

(~brought to you by Bible Gateway~)

theeyesoftammyfaye said:

you don't see that? these jurors are forcing another person to live or, in this case, die, by their religious beliefs.

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That is not entirely true. Colorado state law provides the death penalty for a conviction of murder under special circumstances. He could have just as well been condemned with a sentence of death without the jury misconduct, and without reference to any bible verse.

The court was well within their judicial prerogative to find trial error and reverse the death sentence. However, in my view, they should have then remanded the case back to the trial level for resentence. The conviction still stands and the people of the state of Colorado have a right to determine the sentence. That would include a opportunity to once again sentence the murderer to death.

Respectfully

UberLutheran said:

Let's pretend that I was a juror and read through the Scriptures; and from my interpretation of those Scriptures determined the man should NOT be put to death.

Based on my belief system, should I be allowed to be a juror in that trial?

Or should I be allowed to be a juror only if my interpretation of Scripture supports the death penalty?

(I'll maintain that there is a possibility that the juror/s were examining Scriptural arguments for and against the death penalty, simply because there are those of us who believe there is more than one way to interpret Scripture and have a viable interpretation.)

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In all capital cases, (meaning that the death penalty is an option upon conviction), the jury candidates are asked questions about their believes before they are either preemptively challanged by one side or the other, or challanged for cause. In any event, the jury knows that the prosecutor is seeking the penalty of death if a conviction is successful. I

Therefor, it is clear that the prosecution can excuse a juror after determining through the voir dire process that the perspective juror was anti-death penalty. So yes, sometimes people can be prevented from sitting on a jury based solely on their believes.

While the rules for jury selection are difference in respective jurisdictions, each side is usually allowed a certain number of 'preemptive' or 'cause' challanges. After that, you go with what you got.

Respectfully