hebrews 6:4-7)anyone know what this is saying?

Originally posted by george
4It is impossible for those who have once been enlightened, who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, 5who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age, 6if they fall away, to be brought back to repentance, because[2] to their loss they are crucifying the Son of God all over again and subjecting him to public disgrace.
7Land that drinks in the rain often falling on it and that produces a crop useful to those for whom it is farmed receives the blessing of God. 8But land that produces thorns and thistles is worthless and is in danger of being cursed. In the end it will be burned.

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This refers to the apostates who profess to be believers and the blessings they appeared to share with genuine believers up to the moment of their apostasy. Jesus saves completely (v. 7:25) and has made perfect forever (v. 10:12,13) those who hear His word with faith. We are exhorted to prove the faith we profess by persevering. The Greek word for "once", as it's used here, relates to Christ's once-for-all sacrifice (v. 10:10). The phrase "tasted the heavenly gift" can mean participation in the sacrament of the Lord's Supper, or, could be paired with "enlightenment" as a broad description of apparent conversion. These people had some experience with the gifts of the Holy Spirit, but it is not necessary to conclude that regeneration is specifically intended. The "powers to come" spoken of are the signs and wonders that accompanied the introduction of the gospel (v. 2:4). There is a kind of falling away that is irreversible (1 John 5:16). Christian salvation, however, is final (Hebrews 10:14). According to 1 John 2:19 those that fall away in this manner were not really members of the household of faith, although they may have seemed to be. Judas Iscariot is the clearest example of someone who participated in the coming of the Kingdom but did not enter it. The true believer's participation in Christ's death cannot be withdrawn and then repeated. Understand, this apostacy is not a matter of private, internal doubt. It is the forceful, complete, and public rejection of a faith once confessed. The imagery in vv. 7 and 8 is representative of the ground being God's people and the rain falling on it is the Word or Spirit of God. The unproductive field is destroyed.

Hope this helps.

God bless.

Hebrew 6:4-7 is saying this in a nut shell in my opinion:

What if some people fall away from the faith? It won't be possible to bring them back. It is true that they have seen the light. They have tasted the heavenly gift. The have shared in the Holy Spirit. They have tasted the good things of God's word: They have tasted the powers of the age to come. But they have fallen away from the faith. So it won't be possible to bring them back. They won't be able to turn away from there sins. They are losing everything. That's because they are nailing the Son of God to the cross all over again. They bring shame on him in front of everyone. Some land drinks the rain that falls on it. It produces crop that is useful to those who farm the land. That land receives God's blessing.

I think in order to understand those verses one needs to read further like in verse nine where it goes on to say : Dear friends, we have to say these things. But we are sure of better things in your case. We are talking about the things that go along with being saved. God is fair. He will not forget what you have done. He will remember the love you have shown him. You showed it when you keep on helping them. We want each of you to be faithful to the very end. We want you to be sure of what you hope for. We don't want you to slow down. Instead, be like those who have faith and are patient. They will receive what God promised.

This is the NIrV bibles version of those verses in Hebrews. I usually turn to the NIrV when I don't really understand something that I have read in the KJV because of the wording.

In my opinion, I basically see this as saying that one can fall from the grace of God. That there is no such thing as once saved always saved. If we continuously hold God as the head of our lives and do what his words says to the best of our ability we will receive what God has promised all people that have made the choice to walk after Jesus. Chapter 6 in Hebrews is a warning about Falling Away from God and his word.

Well that is what I believe it means..others may differ. But that's my take on it.

I hope this helps.

IMPOSSIBLE TO RENEW APOSTATES (Heb. 6:4-8)

This section of Heb. 6 has been one of the most hotly debated passages of the book and even of the New Testament. Much twisting of terms and circuitous reasoning has been practiced by commentators in order to evade the apparent meaning of the passage: (1) that Christians can fall away from the faith and ultimately be lost, and (2) that certain ones who do this cannot come back into God's favor again. Let us first clear up some misinterpretations. Our discussion in this chapter has to do with the second of the above two items -- why we cannot "renew them again unto repentance" -- and, in particular, what the word "impossible" is intended to convey.

Two false views. Some think that the discussion in these verses about a person's failing away is only a hypothetical case that could never happen in real life to real Christians. This has been a favorite dodge of Calvinists and of those who retain the Calvinistic doctrine of the perseverance of the saints. Beza and the early English versions beginning with Tyndale inserted an "if" into Heb. 6:6. This was imitated by the KJV translators, and many commentators have followed suit. But there is no conditional element to the Greek construction, and it is therefore unjustifiable regardless of reasoned efforts to the contrary. Moulton traces the influence back to Erasmus and Luther.<17> The appearance of the "if" is probably due to doctrinal bias, though some have denied this. As MacKnight commented (himself a Calvinist), "no translator should take upon him to add to or alter the Scriptures for the sake of any favourite doctrine."<18> Clarke commended MacKnight for being "a thorough scholar and an honest man" who, "professing to give a translation of the epistle, he consulted not his creed but his candour."<19>

Others think the apostasy describes only "professing" rather than real Christians. Vine says, "The warning in Heb. 6:6-8 is not applied to actual Hebrew Christians."<20> Wuest agrees that "an unsaved person" is in view here and adds that "this sin cannot be committed today."<21> Some have resorted to the note of confidence expressed in Heb. 6:9-12 to support this view. But the five blessings enumerated in Heb. 6:4 and Heb. 6:5, plus their initial state of repentance alluded to in Heb. 6:6, cannot be ascribed to any but actual Christians. The sublime terms used obviously demonstrated to the Hebrew Christians that "apostasy from the highest degrees of grace was possible."<22>

Explanations about "impossible. "Those who admit to the possibility of apostasy often attempt to find some way "to explain away the word "impossible" in connection, with a renewal to repentance. One idea is that "impossible" does not describe the apostates' ability to return but only the preachers' ability to re-convert them. So Westcott says, "It is impossible for man to renew ... those who have fallen from the Faith," though he concedes that the fallen might, with some special help from God, ultimately come back.<23> This idea commonly speaks of what is not "impossible for God" but only "impossible for the ministers of Christ."<24> Often Mark 10:27 is incorrectly used to support the notion. In other words, they could not be re-convinced by man unless God supposedly performs some supernatural work on their hearts. This concept is foreign to the teaching of the New Testament, for "belief cometh of hearing, and hearing by the word of Christ" (Rom. 10:17).

Another idea was developed early in the Christian centuries -- that this passage prohibits a repetition of baptism. Many therefore concluded that for sins committed after baptism (or at least for some sins) there could be no forgiveness. The names of Chrysostom, Clement of Alexandria, Tertullian, Ambrose, Jerome, the Montanists, and the Novations are all connected with this idea in one way or another. It is forthrightly refuted by such passages as Acts 8:22 and 1 John 1:9.

Still another misinterpretation is to soften the word "impossible" to just mean difficult. The Latin version of the 6th century Codex D actually inserted the word "difficile" into the text. But this evasion does violence to the original language, which Robertson says "bluntly denies the possibility of renewal for apostates from Christ" and "cannot be toned down."<25> The Greek word for "impossible" is [@adunaton]. It occurs ten times in the New Testament, including three other passages in Hebrews (Heb. 6:18; 10:4; 11:6). In all other places the word plainly means nothing less than absolutely impossible, and that must be its meaning in Heb. 6:6 also.

It has also been suggested that it is impossible to renew them unto repentance "the while" (ASV margin) they crucify to themselves the Son of God afresh. This view emphasizes that "crucify" is a present participle and that the impossibility lasts only as long as the apostates continue their figurative crucifying. Both Bruce and Hughes repudiate this view as a simplistic truism. They take the crucifying as the cause for the impossibility rather than a temporal modifier for how long the state would continue.

A further explanation supposes a hardening of the apostates' senses to the point where it is a moral impossibility for them to return to Christ. This would therefore be the ultimate result of the process warned against in Heb. 3:12-13. Thus, Bruce comments that "it is possible for human beings to arrive at a state of heart and life where they can no longer repent."<26> Woods likewise speaks of these fallen Christians as having "gone beyond the point of no return."<27> But while such a condition may be possible, as Scripture seems to attest (2 Cor. 4:3-4; Eph. 4:17-19; 1 Tim. 4:2), this does not appear to be the correct explanation of the passage in Heb. 6.

One final view to be mentioned is that God simply will not accept back a fallen Christian who has once deliberately and wholeheartedly repudiated his Savior and his salvation. Hughes therefore suggests "a particular disposition involving a repudiation of grace so grave that it has the effect of permanently severing those who display it from the body of Christ." He equates it with the "sin unto death" (1 John 5:16) and the "eternal sin" of blasphemy against the Holy Spirit (Mark 3:29). In this view our passage in Hebrews describes an "irremediable state" where a person "places himself beyond forgiveness and renewal."<28> But while the above-cited passages describe a continuing state of non-repentance in the one case and a blasphemous denunciation so perverse that God would never forgive in the other case, neither situation seems to be the matter discussed here. Further, a "once lost -- always lost" view would be just as contrary to the teaching of Scripture as "once saved -- always saved."

What "impossible to renew" must mean. In keeping with our interpretation of Heb. 6:1-3, a much simpler explanation appears to be the correct one. And it is in harmony with the context of the book. The passage was written to Hebrew Christians warning them not to fall away as some had already done. They were in danger of reverting to the Old Testament Levitical system with its priesthood and sacrifices. The purpose of the book was to prevent them from doing this. Therefore, Hebrews was written to demonstrate the superiority of Christ and Christianity over Judaism, to warn them against falling back to the Jewish system, and to exhort them to renew their spiritual diligence.

A key section of the book emphasizes that Jesus' High Priesthood is better than the Aaronic or Levitical priesthood and that the New Covenant replaced the Old. Since the one great sacrifice has now replaced the many sacrifices of the Levitical ritual, the writer's point in Heb. 6:4-8 is that the Jewish sacrificial system cannot spiritually renew his Hebrew-Christian readers if they should happen to go back to it. The warning, both here and in the similar passage of Heb. 10:26-31, is not just against falling away in general but specifically against falling back to Judaism!

Even when the Old Covenant was still in force as God's religion, there was "a remembrance made of sins year by year" (Heb. 10:3). This was a remembrance of all past sins, even those previously atoned for, because it was actually "impossible that the blood of bulls and goats should take away sins" (Heb. 10:4). It was a faulty or limited covenant (Heb. 8:7) under which God had to continually find fault with his people (Heb. 8:8). But under the New Covenant no such "remembrance" kept coming up. When God forgave he forgot. With Jesus as the sin offering, God promised that all forgiven sins he would "remember no more" (Jer. 31:34; Heb. 8:12; 10:17).

Now that the New Covenant has replaced the Old, the Levitical system cannot even do what it once did with its limited accomplishments. The Old can now do nothing at all for it has been taken away (Heb. 10:9). Therefore, with the Old Covenant it is now "impossible to renew them again unto repentance" (Heb. 6:6) because under that system "there remaineth no more a sacrifice for sins" (Heb. 10:26). For now "in none other is there salvation'! except in Jesus (Acts 4:12). It is not that it is "impossible" for such apostates to return to Christianity, but rather it is "impossible" for them to be saved under Judaism.

Such people as those mentioned "crucify to themselves the Son of God" (Heb. 6:6) either by reverting to sacrifices which called for the death of Christ (Heb. 10:5-10) or by associating themselves with an apostate nation and rejecting "the blood of the covenant" (Heb. 10:29). Ultimately, such fallen ones can only have "a certain fearful expectation of judgments" (Heb. 10:27). When they finally "fall into the hands of the living God" (Heb. 10:31), their "end is to be burned" (Heb. 6:8) in the "fierceness of fire which shall devour the adversaries" (Heb. 10:27).

CONCLUSION

The Hebrew Christians had become "dull of hearing" (Heb. 5:11) because of continuing to be "inexperienced in the word of righteousness" (Heb. 5:13). We may not be in danger of reverting to Judaism as they were, but we always face the danger of reverting to worldly ways or some false religion and be lost at the end. A continual exposure to the "solid food" of God's Word, including difficult passages such as this one, will build us up (Acts 20:32) and keep our "senses exercised to discern good and evil" (Heb. 5:14). In case any interpretation of ours contained in this chapter should be incorrect after all, we will close by saying with Jesus -- "let him that readeth understand."

It's not talking abt Christians if that's wht you're asking.

The book of Hebrews was written to Jewish believers and non-believers, not so much to the Gentile church, although Gentile Christians can benefit greatly by reading the book. Contrast this book to Paul's epistles to the churches and the difference is quite clear.

The Jews were deeply entrenched in the laws, customs and sacrifices of Judaism. That is why Hebrews focuses on the fact that Jesus is the final sacrifice and the High Priest of high priests, and that He supercedes Moses, Abraham and all the other heroes of faith mentioned in the Old Testament (Hebrews 12:2).

Previously, mainly out of spiritual blindness, the Jews had failed to recognise Jesus as the Messiah, rejected His message of salvation by grace and crucified Him.

Now, after knowing better -- having "been enlightened", having had the gospel explained to them via the Apostles, having seen miracles by the power of the Holy Spirit in Acts -- if they continue to reject Christ, they are in a sense putting Jesus back on the cross -- "crucifying the Son of God all over again".

Is it possible that persons "who have tasted the heavenly gift, who have shared in the Holy Spirit, who have tasted the goodness of the word of God and the powers of the coming age" can be non-believers?

Yes, Judas Iscariot was one such person. He had been with Jesus for about three years, sat under His teaching and even seen the power Jesus demonstrated through the Holy Spirit. Yet, Judas was not a believer. He never addressed Jesus as "Lord". You cannot find it in the Bible. Judas had only addressed Jesus as "Master" (Matthew 26:25).

Similarly, today, there are many people who have "tasted" Jesus and the gospel; seen miracles performed right in front of them or even on them, and yet turned away from God.

Note also that the verse only says "enlightened", "tasted" and "shared". These are not words the Bible associates with being saved. We know that salvation is by grace through faith (Ephesians 2:8). We don't get saved by being "enlightened", by "tasting" or by "sharing"! All that is good but we must still believe in our hearts and confess Jesus as our Lord and righteousness (Romans 10:9).