PaladinValer
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The Thief On The Cross
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PaladinValer
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PaladinValer said:
Have you ever studied the word soul?
Lets take a look...
Gen2:7 And the Lord formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.
the word soul...nephesh(5315) in the hebrew means that which breathes
so in order to have a soul you need a body
body + breath = soul
not my interpretation, it's the words
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To the law and to the testimony;If they speak not according to this word it is because there is no light in them...Isaiah 8:20PaladinValer said:
And that is factual theology
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Oblio said:
Saying that the soul must have a body is also heretical. Where are the souls of the Saints who are with Christ ?
Matthew 27:52 And the graves were opened; and many bodies of the saints which slept arose.
scripture interprets scripture
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Oblio
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That doesn't anser the question. The Saints spoken of here were pre-Resurrectional captive Saints that Christ led out of Sheol.
Nope, that's a modern post Reformation doctrine. Nor did your interpretation of that Scripture answer the question. Further, slept is used here as a euphenism for bodily death in hope of eternal life.
Nope, that's a modern post Reformation doctrine. Nor did your interpretation of that Scripture answer the question. Further, slept is used here as a euphenism for bodily death in hope of eternal life.
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pablosrun said:
I meant to say "before" not "after." Twas a typo.
pablosrun said:
Paradise is NOT the proper name of any one place--it is an adjective, a description, which can apply to many places (at least 3 in Scripture: Eden, Abraham's Bosom, Heaven). The meaning of paradise is determined by context. There are two places where it is used as a reference to heaven in Scripture, 2 Cor 12:4 and Rev 2:7. However, with the thief on the cross it must be a reference to Abraham's bosom because the thief could not have gone to heaven that very day. That's very simple, and doesn't require monkeying with the perfect text of the Bible (KJV).
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pablosrun said:
That's exactly what proves that BODIES rather than souls die: it is bodies that require resurrection, because bodies are what dies.
Observe the following:
"Now this I say, brethren, that flesh and blood cannot inherit the kingdom of God; neither doth corruption inherit incorruption...For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality." (1 Cor 15:50-53)
It is the body, not the spirit, that needs to put immortality on--it is the flesh that must be changed.
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shernren
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Paladin, since you've got a thing for ancients and heresies, would you like it if I told you that the immortal soul is a Gnostic, Hellenist heresy? The true Jewish / early Christian belief was in the resurrection of the person, not the immortal soul / mortal body duality of atheistic Greek philosophy. The only reason current theology supports a soul-body duality is because the early theologians were trained in the Greek school of thought.
Haha. I'm not going to press the point. But why must we assume that the soul is time-bound? Does the soul have to experience yesterday, and then today, and then tomorrow, all in temporal order? I believe that the soul is not bound to the chronological order of time: I think that when I die the next thing my soul will experience is the eternal life, regardless of whatever the people I leave behind here experience between me dying and their own eternal life. And that is my personal resolution of the Dying Thief: that the very moment he died his soul moved through space and time to the eternal state of blessedness.
Anyway, what Biblical proof do we have of paradise? And why were the ancients afraid of being consigned to Sheol?
Haha. I'm not going to press the point. But why must we assume that the soul is time-bound? Does the soul have to experience yesterday, and then today, and then tomorrow, all in temporal order? I believe that the soul is not bound to the chronological order of time: I think that when I die the next thing my soul will experience is the eternal life, regardless of whatever the people I leave behind here experience between me dying and their own eternal life. And that is my personal resolution of the Dying Thief: that the very moment he died his soul moved through space and time to the eternal state of blessedness.
Anyway, what Biblical proof do we have of paradise? And why were the ancients afraid of being consigned to Sheol?
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tqpix
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The first half of that verse is past tense, including the part that says, "And when the sabbath was past...." Also, the verse cleary says the spices were bought AFTER the sabbath.pablosrun said:
No. Any annual sabbath--it doesn't matter if it falls on a weekly sabbath or not--is a high sabbath; the preparation day refers to the day before the ANNUAL sabbath.
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tqpix
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It is clear when the spices were purchased. Read the verse again:pablosrun said:So then it is unclear when they bought them all we know is that they bought them some time before this point....Oblio said:
Of course it was past tense, they could not have brought the spices if they had not already purchased them.The tense is silent WRT when they purchased the spices.
Mark 16:1: And when the sabbath was past, Mary Magdalene, and Mary the mother of James, and Salome, had bought sweet spices, that they might come and anoint him.
Also, the word "had"--as in "had bought sweet spices"-- is not in the Greek New Testament.
This is how the verse is rendered in the Literal Translation of the Holy Bible (LITV) by Jay P. Green:
And the sabbath passing, Mary Magdalene and Mary the mother of James and Salome, bought spices, so that coming they might anoint Him.
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A Brethren IN CHRIST
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pablosrun said:Study the word sleep...you quoted me last post but did you read it..you are blinded
usually a person needs context with sleep ....
in 1 thes 5:6-7 these are believer who are spiritually sleeping but alive physcially
therefore let us not sleep as do others ...choice
in other passages it means dead physcally
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tqpix said:
So they bought the spices saturday night or sunday morning both after sabbath..so he died on friday, and rested in the tomb on sabbath, saturday, and rose on sunday I got no problem with that.
Even in death he kept the sabbath...
In a prophecy he knew they would keep sabbath in the future...Matthew 24:20 But pray that your flight be not in the winter or on the sabbath day..
destruction of the temple 70AD Jesus new they would be keeping sabbath......
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PaladinValer
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Pablosrun,
1. You are dead wrong about 1st century ce Christian and Jewish theology.
2. Scripture interprets Scripture is a logical fallacy of Circular Reasoning. Its no different from using a dictionary to define words; eventually you'll end up right where you began and no smarter or wiser.
1. You are dead wrong about 1st century ce Christian and Jewish theology.
2. Scripture interprets Scripture is a logical fallacy of Circular Reasoning. Its no different from using a dictionary to define words; eventually you'll end up right where you began and no smarter or wiser.
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Show me that just the reading of Scriputure alone can create one Truth, one Faith, one Flock and one Fold. Show me in Scripture where the Bible alone is sufficient. A grave assumption on your part.pablosrun said:
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PaladinValer
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Pablosrun, IT ISN'T IN SCRIPTURE; ITS IN THE THEOLOGY OF THE TIME. The very word "hell" isn't in the Scripture either, yet hell exists. The very word "trinity" doesn't exist, yet the Blessed Trinity does exist.
Repeating the same logical fallacies as you are isn't going to win you the argument. Your chief illogical arguments are those that commit either circular reasoning, false equivocations, or are based on silence. You need to give not only evidence but prove logically how that evidence shows you are right.
Repeating the same logical fallacies as you are isn't going to win you the argument. Your chief illogical arguments are those that commit either circular reasoning, false equivocations, or are based on silence. You need to give not only evidence but prove logically how that evidence shows you are right.
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