Petition for Christian Forum Staff Consideration

James Sez · Dec 21, 2003

But at some point you're just throwing your pearls to the swine.

While Jesus may have used this methphor to great affect IMHO, it's use of here is suspect. I'm sure there are many here who agree with you, but I would not intimate that the nonbelievers here are swine. Some have real honest questions. Who are you to judge so harshly who the "swine" among us are. Also, some of those so called pearls you are talking about are cracked or at least, need some polishing.

BAChristian · Dec 21, 2003

chanter said:
We would also have a way to protect our ministers/priests/deacons from criticism. Perhaps if someone disagrees with them, we could design a way for them to vent - but not publicly - perhaps through a mediator who could handle complaints privately. Sometimes people get offended and start ridiculing a minister unjustly. The worst thing to do would be to start a thread which ridicules someone. How would a minister stay with us without these safeguards? They get ridiculed enough in their parishes.

That's just it. When you go to a priest or deacon for advice, he is a man of God. When I used to go to my pastor at the Church of Christ, and asked him his advice, just because I didn't agree with it, didn't mean I would just slam him for it.

I took his advice, and I seriously considered it, because, well, he had far more training than I in seminary and theology and everything else -- and our Father tasked him with spreading the Gospel.

So with that said, this section would be a section where a question would be asked, it would be answered by a minister, and that's that. There are no discussions after that.

IMO, a Christian man or woman should never confront a person who has been called to minister. They don't have to take the minister's advice -- afterall, they were the ones that asked for advice to begin with.

So if you don't like the advice that you asked for, well...

...

And that's the point I'm trying to get across...people around here ask for advice and then they don't like it and they start threads to disparage someone's advice.

Hey folks, if you don't want to hear spiritual advice because you're afraid of being offended, then hey, don't ask for advice from a minister. It's called "tactfulness"...and it's too bad we have to teach adults what that word means...

...it's about time we hold people accountable.

BAChristian · Dec 21, 2003

James Sez said:
While Jesus may have used this methphor to great affect IMHO, it's use of here is suspect. I'm sure there are many here who agree with you, but I would not intimate that the nonbelievers here are swine. Some have real honest questions. Who are you to judge so harshly who the "swine" among us are. Also, some of those so called pearls you are talking about are cracked or at least, need some polishing.

The first thing I'd have to ask you James, is have you ever read that many of my posts in the past? If so, you'd know that I don't judge people. It's just that simple.

You've decided to take my post out of context. I'm sorry if I've misled you.

We all know what "casting your pearls before the swine" means...

If a person doesn't believe in God, and they state that, then I'm not judging them at all -- I'm straight up stating a fact based off of their own admission...that's not judging. So with that said, if they don't want to accept God, yet, they want to vehemently not accept the faith, and you've said all you can say, then I'm not going to "cast my pearls before the swine."

I'm not sitting here saying, "YOU are going to hell for XYZ..."

I've NEVER done that. And that, my friend, is judging.

God bless...

MariaRegina · Dec 21, 2003

BAchristian said:
That's just it. When you go to a priest or deacon for advice, he is a man of God. When I used to go to my pastor at the Church of Christ, and asked him his advice, just because I didn't agree with it, didn't mean I would just slam him for it.

I took his advice, and I seriously considered it, because, well, he had far more training than I in seminary and theology and everything else -- and our Father tasked him with spreading the Gospel.

So with that said, this section would be a section where a question would be asked, it would be answered by a minister, and that's that. There are no discussions after that.

IMO, a Christian man or woman should never confront a person who has been called to minister. They don't have to take the minister's advice -- afterall, they were the ones that asked for advice to begin with. So if you don't like the advice that you asked for, well......

And that's the point I'm trying to get across...people around here ask for advice and then they don't like it and they start threads to disparage someone's advice.

Hey folks, if you don't want to hear spiritual advice because you're afraid of being offended, then hey, don't ask for advice from a minister. It's called "tactfulness"...and it's too bad we have to teach adults what that word means...

...it's about time we hold people accountable.

I was reading an article in James Dobson's Focus on the Family, and it asked specifically for people to pray for their pastors because many pastors literally burn out due to all the criticism they must endure. In the Orthodox Church and in protestant churches, a pastor can be removed by a vote of the people. It's traumatic when that happens, and this has happened too often because of Church politics.

Why do you think some people here are so critical of each other? They could also be critical of their pastors. Some are beholden to no one. And sadly, it's usually based on pride.

That's why it is so crucial to pray. Prayer can do more than argumentation.
:prayer:

Benedicta00 · Dec 21, 2003

Erwin,

If you are still reading, the problem is that there isn't enough Christians who are knowledgeable in the faith to defend and answer the questions that atheists raise. The atheists far out weigh the Christians who can answer them effectivly in that room.

Erwin · Dec 21, 2003

BAchristian said:
I agree. But since this is Christian forums, I think we want to encourage people to be Christian, not Atheist.

The best way to encourage people to be Atheist is to act in an unChristian manner.

BAchristian said:
Contributing to an Atheist belief should not be in our charter. And it is, indirectly, just by the way things are setup.

How are we contributing to an Atheist belief? By allowing Atheists to ask questions? Do we stop non-Christians from asking questions?

Do we censor any opinions that we do not agree with? Do we make a rule that states that anyone who disagrees with the Bible cannot post here?

Let's take an example.

An Atheist posts that "God is not real". Do we remove that thread? Of course not.

A Christian then puts up arguments that supports that God is real. The Atheist then posts arguments to support that God is not real. Are you saying that such debates support Atheism??? Do we remove all posts that support that God is not real, and only leaves posts that support He is real? Is that what you are advocating? What happened to a fair debate? Christians have a right to listen to BOTH sides of the story - this way our faith is challenged, and we grow from it.

Like I said, build your house on ROCK, don't build it on sand. Learn about your faith, read the Scriptures. Don't let anyone persuade you with their intellect. Christianity is about FAITH. And a RELATIONSHIP with God.

Benedicta00 · Dec 21, 2003

I doubt any member of the clergy, Catholic or Protestant may have the time to devote to a forum this big.

Erwin · Dec 21, 2003

Shelb5 said:
Erwin,

If you are still reading, the problem is that there isn't enough Christians who are knowledgeable in the faith to defend and answer the questions that atheists raise. The atheists far out weigh the Christians who can answer them effectivly in that room.

Whose fault is that? Just because Christians are complacent, and do not understand their own faith enough, does not mean we kick Atheists out.

VOW · Dec 21, 2003

Erwin said:
2) Closing GA and IDD

Erwin said:
"snip"

The same may happen if we close IDD. The conflict between denominations cannot be solved by closing a forum, or making up new rules. Is there a solution? This is a millenia-old problem, and we will not solve it on a message board. However, we can work together to come up with an optimal option. There will be no perfect solution, as we are imperfect beings. It is only when Christ returns that we shall truly be united.

Does this issue grieve me? Yes. It weighs me down, and burdens me. But in the end, the burden is for Christ, for He bears my burdens.

I am open to solutions. We know the problems, and I think these problems will always be with us - it's a matter of finding the best way to deal with them.

My solution is what I proposed a long time ago: get rid of the whole idea of DEBATE. "Debate" sets up a confrontational tone, and people get the idea of "winning" and "losing." Our whole purpose here is EDUCATION and UNITY. IMHO, "Debate" is the exact opposite of that!

Go BACK to what the Interdenominational forum USED to be: a place of learning and sharing, and clarification. If someone disagrees with a teaching of another denomination, they must preface their remarks with "In my opinion..." or similar wording. The whole idea of "YOU ARE WRONG," or "THAT IS UNSCRIPTURAL" is most detrimental to the Body of Christ.

BAchristian said:
I fear, Erwin, that this place has gotten a little too big, and you're trying to keep your head above the water with what's going on. Maybe you recognize the problem, but can't find a good solution?

Amen and amen! Erwin, every time I venture back to CF, I find it has swelled yet again, with more and more forums. The plethora of topics is boggling, and I don't see how the moderators can possibly keep tabs on all the postings. Hobbies, Recreation, Regional... There are countless forums on the Internet where people can go to discuss these areas of interest. Give us back the Christian Forums where we go to drink deeply of the living waters of our faith!

Peace be with you,
~VOW

BAChristian · Dec 21, 2003

Erwin, I'm just throwing ideas out, not trying to bring you down. To be honest, I don't know what the best solution is -- I've never claimed to know.

I've never said we should shun Atheists, or we should shut them up...never said that at all...

I'm sorry if that's how it's coming across.

I'm done here. I've said my piece...

Thanks for allowing me to give my suggestions...

Erwin · Dec 21, 2003

I wasn't getting upset at you BAChristian.

I suppose I am as frustrated as you are.

I agree with VOW - our plan was to NOT allow debates in the forums - debates are meant to be restricted to the Formal Debates subforums.

However, members did not seem to want to abide by those rules, and that system fell by the wayside. It's not easy trying to make people do something when they are used to doing something else.

:sigh:

It's an issue that needs to be reviewed, that's for sure.

Benedicta00 · Dec 21, 2003

Erwin said:
Whose fault is that? Just because Christians are complacent, and do not understand their own faith enough, does not mean we kick Atheists out.

I do not think we should kick out atheist, just not let them be allowed to use the forum as a spring board to push their atheist non beliefs.

And I personally am not complacent, I do not engage because IMO, it is pointless when they seek psychical proof that God exists, there is none and I can not provided that kind of proof. God has to reveal Himself to them and their highest expression to that is to respond if they are going to know Him. I cant make them do that.

Erwin · Dec 21, 2003

Shelb5 said:
I do not think we should kick out atheist, just not let them be allowed to use the forum as a spring board to push their atheist non beliefs.

And I personally am not complacent, I do not engage because IMO, it is pointless when they seek psychical proof that God exists, there is none and I can not provided that kind of proof. God has to reveal Himself to them and their highest expression to that is to respond if they are going to know Him. I cant make them do that.

Okay, please tell me what you feel is "a spring board to push their atheist non-beliefs" and how do we stop them. As far as I can see, atheists are merely defending their position of non-belief - do we censor out their posts that they are using to support their position?

VOW · Dec 21, 2003

Erwin said:
I agree with VOW - our plan was to NOT allow debates in the forums - debates are meant to be restricted to the Formal Debates subforums.

However, members did not seem to want to abide by those rules, and that system fell by the wayside. It's not easy trying to make people do something when they are used to doing something else.

And that, Dear Friend in Christ, is why I feel the whole concept of "debate" does not belong here AT ALL.

Thank you so much for your consideration.

Peace be with you,
~VOW

MariaRegina · Dec 21, 2003

Erwin said:
Okay, please tell me what you feel is "a spring board to push their atheist non-beliefs" and how do we stop them. As far as I can see, atheists are merely defending their position of non-belief - do we censor out their posts that they are using to support their position?

I was just wondering -- how many atheists do we have on board?

Erwin · Dec 21, 2003

Let's start talking suggestions for possible solutions - I think we are aware of the problem, and we can spend forever going round and round in circles.

Once we come up with some viable solutions, we should, to be fair, present to the rest of the community, including non-Christian members. We should respect their participation here, for Christ came for the lost, not for the found.

Erwin · Dec 21, 2003

chanter said:
I was just wondering -- how many atheists do we have on board?

Not sure... just roughly, I think we have definitely more Christian members than atheists, but that's only a guess. There's no real way of knowing since a lot of members don't use the faith icons.

Benedicta00 · Dec 21, 2003

Erwin,

You do not have to censor but have them know that Christians are not here to be "preach" at by them that there is no God. They are a guest among us and they act accordingly. They should be here to seek honestly, not to just be entertained by asking us question they know good and well we can not answer.

MariaRegina · Dec 21, 2003

Would it be possible to have a Q and A format for at least one forum where we might have some clergy volunteers who have moderating capabilities.

Rising_Suns · Dec 21, 2003

You do not have to censor but have them know that Christians are not here to be "preach" at by them that there is no God. They are a guest among us and they act accordingly. They should be here to seek honestly, not to just be entertained by asking us question they know good and well we can not answer.

so maybe an ammendment to the rules is in order?

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James Sez

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