I was taught logic. It was called geometry,at least, Socrates believed that.
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Perhaps, but I think the epistemological question you raise here, while relevant, is a separate discussion.Chobo Char said:Hmm, almost. Add "The child cannot even be sure said house exists." and it would be accurate.
That you have focused on volition means you're very insightful. That's an inherent part of this discussion. But understand that I haven't "swapped" anything. As I said above, no reasons have been given to explain why my child will not enter my house. Is it an act of the child's will, or of mine (or both)? I ask the same question concerning the many who will not enter heaven. Why aren't they going to heaven?Jet Black said:of course the whole problem here is the "My child will not enter my house" bit. You have swapped the choice element from you to the child. As has already been pointed out, the child cannot be certain the house even exists, more to the point, the child cannot be certain that you exist either. The child also has many other people inviting him into their houses too (though we cannot be sure if these people or their houses exist either), and according to many of them, all the other houses are actually torture chambers, and only their house is the correct one.
pureone said:Where is the logic lacking in this forum BTW?
Svt4Him said:See, the thread went exactly like I thought. I have seen as many 'non-Creationists' use strawman argument as well as appeal to ridicule. Quite a few more, truth be told.
To put your signature in premise/conclusion form...Captain Jackson said:If God loved the world, then he would allow many into his paradise. Few will enter his paradise, however (Matthew 7:14). Therefore the Christian God does not love the world.
It appears that it's ok to be illogical, unless you are a Christian.BudJohnson said:To put your signature in premise/conclusion form...
P1- If God loved the world, then he would allow many into his paradise.
P2- God does not allow many into his paradise.
C- Therefore, God does not love the world.
A logically valid argument - a good example of modus tollens. The question here of course is whether the argument is sound. Seems to me that the argument begs the question (Petitio Principii): how does God's not allowing many into his paradise imply that God does not love the world? Maybe it does, but that hasn't been established yet. In other words, you have to demonstrate that Premise 1 is true.
This is merely a restatement of my previous post, in which I make the point that the single fact that many will not enter heaven does not in itself prove that God doesn't love the world.
How should you demonstrate that Premise 1 is true? Just show that the only possible reason people don't get into heaven is that God is mean and won't let them in. That should be simple enough.
Or just get a different signature, if that's easier.
Food for thought,
- Bud
This depends on how you define mean and good though, and they are incredibly subjective concepts. I would say that in Jackson's signiature he is implicitly defining a good God as one who lets many into heaven.BudJohnson said:How should you demonstrate that Premise 1 is true? Just show that the only possible reason people don't get into heaven is that God is mean and won't let them in. That should be simple enough.
There's nothing implicit about his definition of "good God." Premise 1 of his argument states most explicitly that a "good God" (i.e., a God who loves the world) is a God who lets many into heaven.Jet Black said:This depends on how you define mean and good though, and they are incredibly subjective concepts. I would say that in Jackson's signiature he is implicitly defining a good God as one who lets many into heaven.
Captain Jackson said:Were you ever taught logic?
Were logic and/or logic fallacies ever formally taught to you? I'm a college sophomore, and the only logic I've learned I learned by myself.
I'm asking because this forum is packed thread to thread with logic fallacies.
Svt4Him said:It appears that it's ok to be illogical, unless you are a Christian.
I've been learning Philosophy and Logic since I was 15, I've come to realize the world is lacking in its ability to exercise proper critical thinking.Were you ever taught logic?
There's a version of the puzzle found in the movie "Labyrinth" (with David Bowie as the Goblin King). There are two doors. One door leads in the right direction, the other one leads in the wrong direction. There are two people standing in front of the doors. One always lies, and one always tells the truth. You don't know which one is the liar, and you don't know which door is the wrong door. What one question can you ask that will tell you which door you should take?fungle said:I still have a problem with the puzzle (I can't think of it exactly) where you are confronted with two people, one always lies and the other tells the truth. You are allowed one question to find the answer. Has anybody come across it?