New and need advice...

Hi Tabitha and welcome, sorry to hear ya havin fits wit your kids, some of it is bound to happen though.

I'm a daddy of a 3 yr old gal an number 2 in 7 siblings, have gotten to seen my fair share of thins growin up an th like.

I hadn't really got any advice, I find I don't manage to come up with anythin when I hear parents perfer not to discipline their children phyiscally, I'm on the other end, I firmly believe in sparin the rod spoilin th child. I don't believe you've gotta beat em into next week er nuthin but I do believe in enuff physical discomfort that their not liable to do it a second time without thinkin bout it some.

Sumthin ya might could try maybe would be to involve your 4 yr old in, or rather enlist er into your own "secret service", if'n she's into sumthin of that nature, have her protect all th thins she knows shes not allowed to get into etc, and have her watch dog your son a bit, that one you've gotta be careful wit seeins how siblins can get to runnin ramshod over em real easy like.

Defintely stay away from bribing, that's a really bad concept to put into play because children could take the stance of tryin to bribe you out of sumthin, like a punishment etc. Sumthin else that might work... when one gets into sumthin punish em both, to clarify that, if for example the two of em like to watch a certain show etc then if'n either/or screw up they cain't watch it, this might not work well for your 2 yr old but might hep the 4 yr old keep tabs on everthin. Hind sight I think this one might only work one way... with your daughter an not from your son, but you could try an see anyways.

There's also always the put thins away so's they cain't git to em, this doesn't work real well round here since at any given moment in time I've got a ton of pc junk layin all over the tables an th like, but out of sight out of mind comes to mind

Hope you can use sumthin of this here, since I don't know you er faimly an th like I don't know if this would apply or to what degree you disicpline, here we use a bit of the big hammer type thin... when mama's had it with er it's one of those wait til daddy gets home he's gonna beat your head in. This normally sorta puts the fear into em a bit an is usually only ever used as a threat then anythin else, I cain't recall comin in to many times an havin to get after Kat to much.

And above all be CONSISTANT. With whatever you do, because I noticed you said.... you've tried all of these thins, jes because sumthin isn't necessarily workin doesn't mean you should chunk it straight away, gradually movin to sumthin else I think is the better way of doin it.

I don't know of too many kids that don't enjoy making a mess, so your kids are pretty normal in that way. Is your home pretty chaotic in general? Or is this getting into things the main problem? So many times we as parents parent by means of "do this!" or "don't do that!" that it seems we yell at them and punish them constantly. When we find ourselves doing this we need to realize that parenting isn't about making our kids follow rules. It's time to slow down and spend some time with them. Are your kids into stuff because they are needing some undivided attention from Mom or Dad? I don't know - just throwing out an idea. When my own kids get rowdy and do things they KNOW are wrong it's often because they are feeling discouraged about something, and sometimes the only way they can get my attention is to misbehave. That's been my own experience anyway.

Do you have your kids pick up their own messes that they make - pick up all your books, tapes, CDs? I'd make sure they do that for sure. They may do nothing else unless and until the mess is picked up. Our own kids when they were little liked to take stuff out of the kitchen cabinets to play with all the time. After I realized that punishing and yelling did no good I softened my attitude and placed the responsibility on THEM. If they want to play with the Tupperware they can, BUT they must put EVERYTHING away when they're done.

You could ask your 4 year old for her help in teaching baby brother to not touch big people's stuff. It might make her feel very important. She might get very bossy about that and you'd need to supervise that. But it's just another idea.

You might consider some long-term toy storage in the garage or something too. Rotate about half of the toys out of the house once a month or 2 or so. They might think it's fun to see a different stash of toys and discover them as if they were brand-new. We did this when our kids were smaller and they thought that was pretty fun.

Well, I don't know what else to say. hopefully you get some other replies.

I think you are doing a great job. It can be so hard to be a parent to kids of those ages. And there are times that you think, why did I ever have children. Not that you don't love them, but you get desperate. I agree with the things the other 2 people have said. Especially don't chuck the disciplines things you are doing already, because they dont help. They might help at some point. You have to be consistent though.

Not sure if you have ever seen the programme where a nanny comes and helps families with discipline issues and schedules and that. I think it is a British programme. It was very good. Not that I would do all she advices. I don't have a daily schedule, as to what to do exactly when, like she does. But when she teaches the parents to discipline their kids, she teaches them to be consistent. She thinks of a place that is a naught mat or naught stairs or corner or whatever. When they are naughty, don't listen or anything, tell them to go to the naughty place, if they don't go, take them there yourself. Make it be for like 5 minutes, if they go out again before the time is up, they have to go back and the 5 minutes starts again. And you have to keep on doing that, until they stay there for the time being. When yo see that, it seems really hard and I am sure it is, but it does help. When the 5 minutes are up, you go talk to the child on the same level as they are. So not standing there and looking down at them, no, go to their level and look them straight in the eyes. And teach them to say sorry for whatever they have done.

I can't say I have done this, although maybe I should at times, but it seems very interesting to see that it works. Maybe it is something you could try.

Sorry to hear of your marital problems. Can't be easy for you all. Is there no way of you working through it with counselling or something? I wish I could help you. But i will sure pray for you.

GOD BLESS

CARINA

Hi

Theres some great advice here i think, i have four kiddies and it can be very tiresome, frustrating.

But one thing that might work is keep some stuff out like Xmas decorations and videos etc that you dont mind being broken, for example a video tape with all the tape removed and just the shell.
Therefore it will become the norm for them and it wont be something new for them to play with.
Dicipline is good i think and rewards are good, bribing definatley no.
I found kids will get used to, and occupy themselves from more then 5 mins in the corner or time out.
Most important be consistant, they will try out there boundries many times but as they get older well another ball game heehee and consistanty will set the precidence for the future.

Hope this may have helped in some way.

God Bless

I know EXACTLY how you feel. I have a 7yr. old, a 3.5 yr. old and a 1.5 yr. old. So basically, minus the 7 yr. old, we are dealing with the exact same thing. I will tell you what has helped me keep my sanity, though it isn't perfect. I did what (oh my goodness I can't believe I am quoting him) Dr. Phil calls "commando parenting" though I have done this for years with my stepson. He was really really really difficult at 2 to 5 yrs. old. Anyway, I emptied out my 3.5 yr. old's room of everything except his bed, pillow, and blanket. Then, every day that he manages NOT to destroy something of mine, or someone elses, he earns a toy back. For every time he DOES destroy something that isn't his, he

1. gets a spanking
2. cleans up the mess
3. does a chore for that person.
4. loses a toy if he has any left

Basically, if I can keep him out of things, then the 1.5 yr. old usually follows his lead. Now, when he destroys something of the 7yr. old's, this is what happens. I ask him if he did this, if he lies, he gets two swats instead of one. If he tells the truth, then I make him look at me, and I tell him clearly that what he did was wrong. I explain that he will be getting a spanking. I ALWAYS say, "do you understand" and we do this until he does understand. Then, I tell him he has to clean up the mess. Then, when it is time for his brother to clean his room, Justin has to go clean Gavin's room as Gavin tells him where things go.

Mind you, this hasn't completely stopped the behavior, but the extent of the damage has lessened quite a bit.

I have a 4 year old daughter and a 2 year old son, so I know where you are coming from.

We have house rules:
no whining
no temper tantrums
no yelling, hitting, biting, pushing etc.
no name calling
no playing at the dinner table
no disrespecting parents
no leaving messes

These rules are repeated over and over to the kids, so they know what is exceptable and unnacceptable behavior.
They get one warning (You know you have to clean up your mess), if they continue the behavior or refuse to do what I ask, then they get a timeout. The time-out area is standing facing the wall in the corner of the livingroom. With no toys, no TV on, or anything pleasing to look at, my kids hate it having to stand there. I do 5 minutes for both of the kids. Then I explain to them what they did or did not do, and make it clear that their behavior led to the punishment. I ask for an apology, and then I remind them of the correct behavior. If they go back to doing the bad behavior or not do what I ask again, there is no warning. This time they get a spanking, as well as, a 5 minute time-out. Then I ask for an apology and again explain that their behavior resulted in their punishment. And I explain the correct behavior again. It hardly ever gets to spanking, anymore. They understand that the rules are non-negotiable and that if they do not follow them, they will be punished.

I also try to do many things to get them to understand empathy. If they destroy something of mine, they get punished but I also talk to them. I ask them how they would feel if someone destroyed their favorite toy or threw their favorite toy out. Usually they get upset at the thought, and I explain that is how they made Mommy feel. It's really important to teach empathy and with that will come a respect for other people's possessions.

First...welcome to CF
Second...Call Super Nanny!!! (Just kidding)
Third...I agree with the guy who said he spanks his children. I swore I wouldn't do it but, sometimes it's the only thing that snaps my daughter back into reality. I'm a stay-at-home mom and I can tell you that I want to rip my hair out a lot! One thing that helps is consistency. I can't stress that enough. I'm an adult with ADHD and my daughter has a 98% chance of having it, too. Consistency is the only thing that seems to work. Don't get me wrong. Our kids will try to push the boundries at any cost. I was famous, as a child, for opting for a spanking so that I could continue to do what I wanted. We have different consequences to meet each incorrect behavior. Some things can be discussed while others go right to a spanking. It's very important that your husband and you work together on this. Decide on the punishments and rules beforehand and explain them to your children. You'll be surprised how much a toddler can understand. Good luck and God Bless...

Just something that might be helpful. I see that you have tried many different things and that may be a big part of the problem. Consistancy is a big thing. We use a few different things with our daughter but there is a order with them. We use the 1 2 3 system. If she is doing something that she is not suppose to be doing she has to the count of 3 before trouble happens. It usually starts off with the corner and then goes to a time out and then ends with a spank if she pushes it that far (which is not common). She understands and knows the process and is careful to listen. We do not get to 3 very often anymore. The key is when you get to 3 that you follow through with what you told them you would do. If you don't you lose control. You become a push over. Not having a set punishment is like spinning the roulett wheel. Some times you win but most the time you lose.

As far as toys and cleaning up after herself our daughter tends to do much better with this when I started to clean up for her. The catch is that when I clean up some of her stuff will end up in the garbage. This is a huge motivator for her.

Set the ground rules and if they are broken then this is what will happen. This is the way things are in the real world and it works with children. You break a law in the real world there is a real consistant (for the most part) response.

That is great that you are going back to church! Bring God back in to the picture more is a great thing.

The fact that you and your husband are having problems and are seperating will play a huge role in your childrens lives. The ones who struggle with seperation and divorce the most are the children. It is much harder on them than the parents wether or not the let on or say so. I would strongly suggest to see a good Christian couselor. You and your husband need it and your children need it too. The tension between you and your husband may be a primary source for they way your children are acting out. Children don't have the developed capacity to deal with these tramatic situations as adults. Acting out and causing trouble is a very common way for them to respond to something they don't know how to deal with.

You mention finances. If you can not afford a to go to a counselor I am sure your a pastor at your church would be willing to help. If not, find one that can. This is too important to not do because of finances. Your childrens emotional and spiritual well being is more important than money. I know of counselors in our area that charge very little or nothing for those who can not afford it. Most good Christian counselors see beyond the money and see the need.