Eschatologies of HOPE -- Seeing God's Kingdom in Today's World

Catchup · Apr 25, 2002

Thank you Gw, for making a thread that points out the beauty and good that still lives on this Earth. It is a delightful idea. I hope others will contribute. For yes, we are to grow in the Spirit. We are to Love. We are to never give up the fight for all the souls of this world. For if there was no one worth saving why would Christ return?

But,I know now after hoonababa's outburst...Where you are going with this thread. I must warn you there is a danger in your thinking.

You forget that we live in a fallen society. Evil also thrives on Earth's fertile soils. It grows like a cancer destroying from within. A little evil can overshadow a lot of good. At some point it will have to be dealt with radically. The tar will need to be burnt when it is time for the harvest. All things will be new

You think that since we contain the Spirit we can fix this troubled world. You think that we can do the job ourselves. You think that we can totally change this world if only we try harder.

But in truth It will take God to stop the evil from destroying all of us. Please understand that we may have the Spirit of Christ but we are not gods.This may sound absurd to you nowbut the idea that we are gods will become more common place in the future.

Your friend in Christ

LOVE

I did find it amusing, that you think you can gain control of the world...But in reality you can not even control a simple thread on a forum. So much for that idea of doing all God's work!

People plan...God laughs

postrib · Apr 25, 2002

GW:

...There will be no end to the increase of His government or of peace, On the throne of David...

Jesus and we rule now in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6), but during the millenium I believe we will also rule with Christ (Revelation 20:4-6) on the earth (Revelation 5:10) over the heathen nations that survive the 2nd coming (Revelation 2:26-29, Zechariah 14:2-21). I believe that Jesus will sit upon the throne of David (Luke 1:32) in Jerusalem during the millenium (Jeremiah 3:17).

When do postmillenialists say Revelation 20:7-10 was or will be fulfilled?

GW · Apr 25, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
For yes, we are to grow in the Spirit. We are to Love. We are to never give up the fight for all the souls of this world. For if there was no one worth saving why would Christ return?

We are to subdue kingdoms and establish righteousness as the Hebrews 11 heroes did:

Hebrews 11:6, 32-33
for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him...for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions

The Christian Church walks in this great heritage of unstoppable faith just like our Hebrews 11 brothers and sisters. We are in process of subduing kingdoms, establishing righteousness, and asserting Christ's dominion over all nations through the same faith of David, Samuel, Joshua, and Moses had. Nothing can stop us (Matthew 16:18-19).

Originally posted by Catchup
You forget that we live in a fallen society. Evil also thrives on Earth's fertile soils. It grows like a cancer destroying from within. A little evil can overshadow a lot of good. At some point it will have to be dealt with radically.

Society is being redeemed by the Atonement of Christ's blood and the power of the Holy Spirit via the Church. Christ's Church is carrying out the reconciliation of the Cross to all nations and we cannot fail (Matt 16:18-19):

2 Corinthians 5:18-20
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, RECONCILING THE WORLD UNTO HIMSELF, not imputing their trespasses unto them; and hath committed unto us the word of reconciliation. Now then we are ambassadors for Christ, as God did beseech you by us

So we can see that at this time God is reconciling all the world unto himself.

Originally posted by Catchup
You think that since we contain the Spirit we can fix this troubled world. You think that we can do the job ourselves. You think that we can totally change this world if only we try harder.

Without any question. Scripture says so:

Acts 17:6
These [the Christians] that have turned the world upside down are come hither also;

Originally posted by Catchup
But in truth ?It will take God to stop the evil from destroying all of us. Please understand that we may have the Spirit of Christ...

He already has. And you must not believe in the Spirit's great power.

1 John 4:4
Ye are of God, little children, and have overcome them [past tense]: because greater is he that is in you, than he that is in the world.

1 John 2:13
ye have overcome the wicked one.

1 John 5:4
For whatsoever is born of God overcometh the world: and this is the victory that overcometh the world, even our faith

Originally posted by Catchup
This may sound absurd to you now?but the idea that we are gods will become more common place in the future.

Originally posted by Catchup
I did find it amusing that you think you can gain control of the world...

Click to expand...

Jesus Christ already has control over the whole earth and is carrying out his will and dominion through the expanse of His Church:

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ, the faithful witness, the firstborn of the dead, and the ruler of the kings of the earth.

1 Peter 3:21-22
Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, AFTER angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

Now that we have established Christ's current rule and reign as the ruler over all the kings of the earth, let's get back to testimonies of the present reign and progress of the Kingdom of God today! Jesus is the God of this world!

GW · Apr 25, 2002

Catchup says:
People plan...God laughs

The Church binds, God binds.

The Church looses, God looses.

Matthew 16:18-19
That thou art Peter, and upon this rock I will build My Church; and the gates of hell shall not prevail against it. And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

GW · Apr 25, 2002

Originally posted by postrib
GW:
Jesus and we rule now in heavenly places (Ephesians 2:6)

We rule now over Heaven and Earth with King Jesus:

Matthew 28:18
And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, ALL power is given unto me in heaven AND IN EARTH. Go ye therefore, and make disciples of all nations

Revelation 1:5
and from Jesus Christ...the ruler of the kings OF THE EARTH.

1 Peter 3:21-22
Jesus Christ, who is at the right hand of God, having gone into heaven, AFTER angels and authorities and powers had been subjected to Him.

Originally posted by postrib
but during the millenium I believe we will also rule with Christ (Revelation 20:4-6) on the earth

We already rule with Christ on the earth (Matt 28:18-19; Rev 1:5; 1 Peter 3:21-22; Matt 16:18-19). We are ruling with Him now in the Kingdom:

Revelation 1:9
I John, who also am your brother...in the kingdom

Revelation 1:6
and He has made us to be a kingdom, priests to His God and Father [past tense]--to Him be the glory and the dominion forever and ever

This world is Christ's and He has given back dominion over it to His saints:

1 Corinthians 3:22
Whether Paul, or Apollos, or Cephas, or the world, or life, or death, or things present, or things to come; ALL ARE YOURS

Catchup · Apr 25, 2002

GW: I will pray for you and with you.

But at some point you will be forced to come to terms with your denial that this world will be destroyed. It will be burnt down to the barest of nothing. Do not be angry with me. It is God's plan.

It would have been nice if you had been true about having a thread to prove that we will not give up!That we will keep up this fight for the world until our Saviour comes back.

The final blow to evil belongs to God!

Sorry, but you need to close down this thread...You have deceived us by sneaking in the backdoor.

Your Friend in Christ

LOVE

postrib · Apr 25, 2002

...It will take God to stop the evil from destroying all of us...

In the coming tribulation, the Antichrist will gain control of the entire earth and overcome the church: "And it was given unto him to make war with the saints, and to overcome them: and power was given him over all kindreds, and tongues, and nations" (Revelation 13:7); at that time I believe we will cry out: "We have as it were brought forth wind; we have not wrought any deliverance in the earth; neither have the inhabitants of the world fallen" (Isaiah 26:18); "And when he shall have accomplished to scatter the power of the holy people, all these things shall be finished" (Daniel 12:7).

Only at the 2nd coming (Revelation 19), "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), will Christ gain the victory for us: "And then shall appear the sign of the Son of man in heaven: and then shall all the tribes of the earth mourn, and they shall see the Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven with power and great glory" (Matthew 24:30). "I have trodden the winepress alone; and of the people there was none with me: for I will tread them in mine anger, and trample them in my fury; and their blood shall be sprinkled upon my garments, and I will stain all my raiment. For the day of vengeance is in mine heart, and the year of my redeemed is come. And I looked, and there was none to help; and I wondered that there was none to uphold: therefore mine own arm brought salvation unto me; and my fury, it upheld me. And I will tread down the people in mine anger, and make them drunk in my fury, and I will bring down their strength to the earth" (Isaiah 63:3-6). "The LORD of hosts hath purposed it, to stain the pride of all glory, and to bring into contempt all the honourable of the earth" (Isaiah 23:9).

All glory to God: "I will not give my glory unto another" (Isaiah 48:11). "Thine, O LORD is the greatness, and the power, and the glory, and the victory" (1 Chronicles 29:11). "Deliver us from evil: For thine is the kingdom, and the power, and the glory, for ever. Amen" (Matthew 6:13).

GW · Apr 25, 2002

Originally posted by Catchup
It would have been nice if you had been true about having a thread to prove that we will not give up!That we will keep up this fight for the world until our Saviour comes back.

That's what this thread is about. You are the one asking questions. I am simply answering with scriptures that tell of the victory of the Church that will be comprehensive and universal during the Church age. If you do not have a testimony of Christ's ever-expanding Kingdom and dominion then please refrain from posting. And for sure, if you're going to ask questions and then complain that neither Catholics nor the Revivalist Puritans nor the Postmillennial Reconstructionists share your doom and gloom then please visit other threads.

Originally posted by Catchup
But at some point you will be forced to come to terms with your denial that this world will be destroyed. It will be burnt down to the barest of nothing. Do not be angry with me. It is God's plan.

John 3:17
For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved.

2 Corinthians 5:18
And all things are of God, who hath reconciled us to himself by Jesus Christ, and hath given to us the ministry of reconciliation; To wit, that God was in Christ, reconciling the world unto himself, not imputing their trespasses unto them;

Originally posted by Catchup

Sorry, but you need to close down this thread...You have deceived us by sneaking in the backdoor.

Rather, you have not sought to abide by the rules given in post number one of this thread. Please, if you do NOT have a positive testimony of the ever-expanding power and victory of Christ's Church and Kingdom in the present age before the creedal consummation, then I ask that you consider refraining from posting or I will have to ask the moderator to stop you.

Thanks,
GW

postrib · Apr 25, 2002

...Jesus Christ already has control over the whole earth...

He has de jure rule, but not de facto rule as yet, for still "The whole world is under the control of the evil one" (1 John 5:19, NIV). Every time we sin we obey the evil one -- we show our love for him instead of God. "He that committeth sin is of the devil" (1 John 3:8).

GW · Apr 25, 2002

MODERATOR:

I must ask for your help. My thread is being overrun with pessimists who are not abiding by the rules laid out in the first post.

This thread is dedicated to the Catholic Amillenialist view and the American Revivalist Postmillennial views that believe the Church has an ever-expanding victory in the present age until the Creedal coming of Christ at some distant future end of the world.

Please consider that I may need you to step in and either delete posts by Catchup and Postrib or simply ask them to refrain from posting on Amillennial or Postmillennial threads where they don't share that optimistic Kingdom eschatological outlook.

Sincerely,
GW

GW · Apr 25, 2002

Postrib, Catchup:

Please refer back to post number one. If you cannot abide by the rules laid out for this thread then please refrain from posting here. This thread is an endtimes thread expressing the Amillennial and Postmillennial views and their victorious outlook and worldview of the present and expanding Kingdom of Christ leading up to the creedal return of Jesus Christ.

Catholics, Revivalist American Postmills and today's Reconstructionists believe satan has de jure influence as a god [only over the souls of the damned], but not de facto rule over the saints, or any authorities or kings, or planet Earth since CHRIST is the God of this world (Matt 28:18-19). Christ's dominion is progressive and ever-expanding in the Church age as Christ is reconciling all things to himself via the Church (2 Cor 5:18-20; Matthew 16:18-19). All dominion now belongs to Jesus Christ and the Church (1 Peter 3:22; Jude 1:25; 1 Tim 1:17; Daniel 7:14,27).

This thread is PRIMARILY for testimonies of Church victories and advances as Christ is expanding his Kingdom around the regions of the earth. Those who also wish to express the passages of scripture that ensure this progressive dominion that now belongs to Christ in the present time may do so.

Thanks for abiding by the rules,
GW

Catchup · Apr 25, 2002

This thread is dedicated to the Catholic Amillenialist view and the American Revivalist Postmillennial views that believe the Church has an ever-expanding victory in the present age until the Creedal coming of Christ at some future end of the world.

I think we can all live by this. I had nothing but praise for you until you strayed from your topic. Please do not blame it on me.

Your friend in Christ

LOVE

Moderator I think it is a good idea to delete all post that do not stay within the topic on this thread.

Sorry I had to take off the word "distant" from the quote about the future end of the World.

GW · Apr 25, 2002

Originally posted by TheBear
I'm sure that the Christians who believe in the preterist view of prophecy, have many common beliefs and views with other Christians, as well. I think any type of challenge against preterism, is a little misplaced in this particular thread.

John

Everyone,

Please refer to John's remarks here.

For those that do not wish to abide by the rules laid out in post number one of this thread, please refrain from posting here.

This thread is to promote God's victorious Kingdom works on planet earth today which he has predestined through Christ and the Church leading up the the future, creedal end of the world at the end of time. If you are unfamiliar with Catholic Amillennial Kingdom views or American Revivalist Postmillennialism then refrain from posting. Or, I can post some books to help if you want to do some research.

Thanks,
GW

Catchup · Apr 25, 2002

GW.....We coooooool

postrib · Apr 25, 2002

...This thread is an endtimes thread expressing the Amillennial and Postmillennial views...

Can someone then express for me the Amillennial and Postmillennial views of Revelation 20:7-10; Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43; John 3:19; John 9:39; 1 Corinthians 11:32; John 12:25; and Romans 3:6?

parousia70 · Apr 25, 2002

Site:
www.crosswalk.com

Article:
Christian Music sales surging ahead in market share!

Exerpt:
After years of preaching to the choir, Contemporary Christian Music has emerged. Sales of Christian music surged by more than 13% in 2001, despite widespread worries about music piracy and file-sharing. The uptick is all the more impressive in light of worldwide music sales, which fell 5% during the same period -- a dramatic turnaround from the 6% gain in worldwide music sales the previous year.

Hoonbaba · Apr 25, 2002

Interview with the principal trumpeter from New York Philharmonic

Site: CNN.com

Article: Phil Smith, trumpet: 'It's a blessing'

Excerpt: He grew up in a Salvation Army family, playing cornet on street corners and in church bands. His father, a Salvation Army band soloist, was his only teacher. But Phil Smith was a player gifted enough to make it into Juilliard with no formal training -- then to the Chicago Symphony on his first audition; and then, while still in his 20s, to the New York Philharmonic as principal trumpet.

He's an unfailingly humble man, a gentle soul whose strongest curse word is "crumbs." But when he picks up the trumpet, he plays with extraordinary power and passion. Many of his colleagues in the New York Philharmonic -- and in other major orchestras -- consider him one of the best trumpet players in the world. And he does it all on faith.

Personal Comments: For those who aren't trumpet players, the bulk of the article may not mean much. Those in the 'trumpet world' may know that he's one of the best of the best. Even before I was a Christian, I knew he was amazing. After reading his testimony, I praise God for the wonderful work He did in his life! Two-thirds of the way down the article, Phil Smith shares about his faith in relation to his role as principal trumpet of New York Philharmonic Orchestra. You might want to read it =)

Hoonbaba · Apr 25, 2002

The Hiding Place

site: rockcitychurch.com

The Hiding Place: A Place of Refuge for Women in Crisis Situations

Significance: The Hiding Place is a residential facility where a woman in crisis will be loved, cared for and encouraged through a healthy Christian family environment. We establish the women in a home structure and daily work/recreational routine throughout their stay. During this time, she also receives support with specialized care: Medical, Education and Counseling.

davo · Apr 25, 2002

Originally posted by postrib
Can someone then express for me the Amillennial and Postmillennial views of Revelation 20:7-10; Matthew 13:24-30, 36-43; John 3:19; John 9:39; 1 Corinthians 11:32; John 12:25; and Romans 3:6?

G'day postrib :wave:

-you may want to start another thread for these types of question etc, or just ask them elsewhere else - as they're appropriate here.

Blessings!

davo

Hoonbaba · Apr 25, 2002

A Can Can Make a Difference

Site: rockcitychurch.com

Can Can Make a Difference is there... Helping to Feed the Hungry!

http://www.rockcitychurch.com/cancan.htm

Significance: A Can Can Make A Difference was established to assist in effectively fighting the war on hunger. It is comprised of businesses, governments, community agencies and churches, joining together with this one goal. To date, A Can Can Make A Difference has mobilized over 60 local service providers and 180 volunteers into a focused and dedicated army. Together, they help meet the diversified needs of those in the community.

Many emergency food providers have seen the spread of hunger. What was once a shortage of food in an individual household has now become an epidemic which affects whole communities. Until recently, non-profit organizations, soup kitchens and community pantries, all of which are on a limited budget, purchased their food from super pantries. Now, thanks to a large army of volunteers, all the food they receive from A Can Can Make A Difference is provided FREE OF CHARGE!

CCMAD has been so successful that replica programs have been established and are now operating in La Plata, Maryland and Fredericksburg, Virginia. A Can Can Make A Difference is also assisting the states of West Virginia, Pennsylvania, Delaware, New York, Florida and North Carolina with much needed food items.

Personal Comments: I've actually been to this place. It's amazing. This organization isn't just one the result of one church, various local churches in Baltimore work together on providing food for the hungry. The neat thing is that many companies donate money and food to CCMAD, and so the need for food is being provided on a massive scale. Every so often people would go to houses that are in need and give them a book of food, which easily provides for 15 meals. Doesn't this remind you of Romans 12:20? =) Another relevant passage: Matthew 25:35-40.

Eschatologies of HOPE -- Seeing God's Kingdom in Today's World

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