Is America Still A Christian Nation?

Just Me Garry · Mar 10, 2005

It is interesting becasue this is what Jeremiah said:

Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.
Jer 6:17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

:preach:

tomedward · Mar 10, 2005

Just Me Garry said:
It is interesting becasue this is what Jeremiah said:
Jer 6:16 Thus saith the LORD, Stand ye in the ways, and see, and ask for the old paths, where is the good way, and walk therein, and ye shall find rest for your souls. But they said, We will not walk therein.

Jer 6:17 Also I set watchmen over you, saying, Hearken to the sound of the trumpet. But they said, We will not hearken.

Amen Brother

In addition to the above

Hosea 4:1-2

Hear the word of the LORD, ye children of Israel: for the LORD hath a controversy with the inhabitants of the land, because there is no truth, nor mercy, nor knowledge of God in the land.

By swearing, and lying, and killing, and stealing, and committing adultery, they break out, and blood toucheth blood.

Hosea 4:6

My people are destroyed for lack of knowledge: because thou hast rejected knowledge, I will also reject thee, that thou shalt be no priest to me: seeing thou hast forgotten the law of thy God, I will also forget thy children.

Hosea 5:4

They will not frame their doings to turn unto their God: for the spirit of whoredoms is in the midst of them, and they have not known the LORD.

Hosea 5:11

Ephraim is oppressed and broken in judgment, because he willingly walked after the commandment.(by mans precept)

Hosea 5:15

I will go and return to my place, till they acknowledge their offence, and seek my face: in their affliction they will seek me early.

Hosea 7:10

And the pride of Israel testifieth to his face: and they do not return to the LORD their God, nor seek him for all this.

Hosea 8:4

They have set up kings, but not by me: they have made princes, and I knew it not:

Hosea 8:12

I have written to him the great things of my law, but they were counted as a strange thing.

Hosea 8:14

For Israel hath forgotten his Maker, and buildeth temples. So has America thus the Temple of D.C.

Hosea 10:13

Ye have plowed wickedness, ye have reaped iniquity; ye have eaten the fruit of lies: because thou didst trust in thy way, in the multitude of thy mighty men.

Hosea 13:10

I will be thy king: where is any other that may save thee in all thy cities? and thy judges of whom thou saidst, Give me a king and princes ?

Spitsign · Mar 28, 2005

Zippythepinhead said:
Our Founding Fathers declared that America was founded on Christian ideals. Though, providing for the free exercise of religion, we were never meant to become a secularist nation. That is my take.

Um, our founding fathers came here to escape religious opression..

jgarden · Mar 28, 2005

Zippythepinhead said:
Our Founding Fathers declared that America was founded on Christian ideals. Though, providing for the free exercise of religion, we were never meant to become a secularist nation. That is my take.

Even the Jews who historically have attempted to maintain a "closed society" to outside religious influences haven't been able to achieve that goal. Are we advocating the Christian equivalent to a Saudi Arabia or an Iranian theocracy? :bow:

BlessedandCommanded · Mar 29, 2005

Was America Ever a Christian Nation. I argue that we romanticize the past. A nation that supported slaverly or killed every person that even said witch is not a nation supporting or reflecting the will of God. This nation is not merciful, peaceful, loving , joyful, patient, kind, faithful. For me we could have to reflect the fruits of the Spirit to be a Christian Nation.

tulc · Mar 29, 2005

Spitsign said:
Um, our founding fathers came here to escape religious opression..

That's one way of looking at it. Another way would be they weren't able to make everyone live according to the rules they thought they should. So they came here to be able to oppress each other without fear.

tulc(welcome to CF! hope you are blessed while here)

tulc · Mar 29, 2005

Welcome to CF BlessedandCommanded! :wave:

tulc(who also is blessed and commanded!

)

Norseman · Mar 29, 2005

FadingWhispers3 said:
Practically speaking, I don't think there'd be much of a difference between a secular and an atheist nation.

Of that you are wrong. A secularist nation allows for christianity to flourish albeit ideally not favored above anything else. An atheist nation is surely secular. But a secular nation may or may not be atheist.

If we take Stalinist Russia for an example, atheism can be just as bad as Christian Spain. However, today, by and large atheists don't care what religion you are, as long as you don't bother us about it. Ergo, if America were run by atheists, it would probably be the same as it is right now, except more liberal, and probably with some rules about evangelizing and other door-to-door advertising techniques. Conceivably, tax exempt status of some non-charity organizations, (like some churches, but by and large most churches are charity organizations) or organizations that have non-secular standards for who may benefit from them (like if you had to be a Catholic to be able to find food and shelter at a Catholic church) might also be removed. The end.

It's not like atheists care if you wear a cross, or even if you paint the entire bible in small text around your house (we'd think you're weird of course, but weird isn't a justification for keeping you from doing it). Just don't do it on government property (the bible thing, not the cross thing. You can wear whatever you want wherever you please as long as it isn't a bomb) or with tax dollars and no one cares.

NIMBYatheist42!!! · Apr 23, 2005

For me America is a highly Christian nation and pretty much always has been.
But it all depends on what you define as a Christian nation. Some non-Christians might think America is very Christian while some Christians may think that America isn't very Christian.

Spherical Time · Apr 25, 2005

Norseman said:
If we take Stalinist Russia for an example, atheism can be just as bad as Christian Spain. However, today, by and large atheists don't care what religion you are, as long as you don't bother us about it. Ergo, if America were run by atheists, it would probably be the same as it is right now, except more liberal, and probably with some rules about evangelizing and other door-to-door advertising techniques. Conceivably, tax exempt status of some non-charity organizations, (like some churches, but by and large most churches are charity organizations) or organizations that have non-secular standards for who may benefit from them (like if you had to be a Catholic to be able to find food and shelter at a Catholic church) might also be removed. The end.

It's not like atheists care if you wear a cross, or even if you paint the entire bible in small text around your house (we'd think you're weird of course, but weird isn't a justification for keeping you from doing it). Just don't do it on government property (the bible thing, not the cross thing. You can wear whatever you want wherever you please as long as it isn't a bomb) or with tax dollars and no one cares.

I agree, what you do in your own house and own church are not really my concern.

I might suggest, were atheists in charge, that we have some mechanism in place to keep congregation leaders from taking lots of money from their followers in the name of charity and using it for personal use instead.

Norseman · Apr 26, 2005

Spherical Time said:
I agree, what you do in your own house and own church are not really my concern.

I might suggest, were atheists in charge, that we have some mechanism in place to keep congregation leaders from taking lots of money from their followers in the name of charity and using it for personal use instead.

Actually, I'm pretty sure they never claim it's for a charity. What I would do is if someone claims to be a charity, there should be a limit to the amount of money they can take for themselves ($0 would be nice, but I think they should get at least minimum wage for going around helping unemployed and/or homeless people, although speaking of homeless people, I recently had an idea which I think is more effective at helping them). There's probably nothing you could do about "give me money and I'll pray for you" except for educating the public so they don't fall into scams like that. Although in that case, I don't think the religion, race, or creed would matter. If it's a scam, people need to know about it and be smart enough not to fall into it.

Spherical Time · Apr 26, 2005

Norseman said:
Actually, I'm pretty sure they never claim it's for a charity. What I would do is if someone claims to be a charity, there should be a limit to the amount of money they can take for themselves ($0 would be nice, but I think they should get at least minimum wage for going around helping unemployed and/or homeless people, although speaking of homeless people, I recently had an idea which I think is more effective at helping them). There's probably nothing you could do about "give me money and I'll pray for you" except for educating the public so they don't fall into scams like that. Although in that case, I don't think the religion, race, or creed would matter. If it's a scam, people need to know about it and be smart enough not to fall into it.

Benny Hinn is currently under investigation, actually.

Norseman · Apr 26, 2005

Spherical Time said:
Benny Hinn is currently under investigation, actually.

Was he claiming he was a charity but then taking all or most the money for himself?

I've heard the name, actually, and I know he's a televangelical, but that's pretty much all I know about him.

UberLutheran · Apr 26, 2005

Chrysalis Kat said:
Socan we agree that there arent any nations that can be deemed Atheist nations?

What about North Korea? From what I know of the religious and social make-up of that country, it would be extremely unsafe to be a Christian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Hindu, or a member of any organized (or unorganized) religion.

Chrysalis Kat · Apr 26, 2005

UberLutheran said:
What about North Korea? From what I know of the religious and social make-up of that country, it would be extremely unsafe to be a Christian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Hindu, or a member of any organized (or unorganized) religion.

Is this because of the culture or because the goverment formally forbids any religious practices?

Norseman · Apr 26, 2005

UberLutheran said:
What about North Korea? From what I know of the religious and social make-up of that country, it would be extremely unsafe to be a Christian, a Buddhist, a Muslim, a Hindu, or a member of any organized (or unorganized) religion.

Actually, Buddhism is one of the main religion in North Korea, alongside Confucianism, and there are even some openly Christian groups there. However, the government heavily pervades most churches, and (I assume) censors anything they don't agree with. Of course, they claim Americans are baby eaters etc., so by and large everything is messed up there. IIRC Kim Jong-il is regarded almost as a deity. That's probably the reason (or the result) of controlling the churches.

Spherical Time · Apr 26, 2005

Norseman said:
Was he claiming he was a charity but then taking all or most the money for himself?

I've heard the name, actually, and I know he's a televangelical, but that's pretty much all I know about him.

Well, like I said, he's under investigation. A court will decide if he's guilty or not.

kofh2u · Apr 26, 2005

Spherical Time said:
I agree, what you do in your own house and own church are not really my concern.

I might suggest, were atheists in charge, that we have some mechanism in place to keep congregation leaders from taking lots of money from their followers in the name of charity and using it for personal use instead.

At least tax them. Ceasar did that.

Nevertheless, there is no such thing as a secular AND non-religious community.

Plus, Atheists are NOT without Gods, inspite of denials.

Atheist are Anti-Christ, too.

Because, there is NO other name in the heavens now, ever since 590 AD.

God means Jesus,... right?

Anti-Jesus as God is anti-the-Christ, de facto.

Spherical Time · Apr 27, 2005

kofh2u said:
At least tax them. Ceasar did that.

Alright, if you want us to.

kofh2u said:
Nevertheless, there is no such thing as a secular AND non-religious community.

China.

kofh2u said:
Plus, Atheists are NOT without Gods, inspite of denials.

Atheist are Anti-Christ, too.

I think that Christians are blind. Now we both have incorrect opinions about each other!

kofh2u said:
Because, there is NO other name in the heavens now, ever since 590 AD.

God means Jesus,... right?

Not according to Islam. Apparently God had to come back to earth because Christianity got it wrong. Aparently the name in the sky is Allah.

kofh2u said:
Anti-Jesus as God is anti-the-Christ, de facto.

Quite.

KarateCowboy · Apr 27, 2005

Spherical Time said:
China.

Actually most Chinese practice some sort of religion. It's just very private and personal. For example, a lot of Chinese have small shrines in their homes or even on the dashboard of their cars or wagons. Officially they don't practice a religion, but even that's getting old. China's government is changing. They've realized that you can't stop a nation that has been practicing religion longer than most civilizations(China is one of the world's oldest surviving civilizations) from that age old tradition. I know this because I have many Chinese and Asian friends.

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