who is the rightful owners of Palistine (Isreal today)

God Almighty is the rightful owner. Everything is moving along according to His devine plan. Jerusalem will be a cup of trembling, a burdensome stone and a stumblingblock to the nations. We will never see (true) Peace until after the seven year tribulation, which will start with 3 1/2 years of (false) peace, followed by the wrath of God.

I'm not an expert in this but a significant part of the state of Israel is land bought by the Jews or land which Jew were already living in prior to the formation of Israel.

It is simply not true that the Jews came and kicked off all the Arabs off their land.

After WWII, the Jews from Europe migrated to British Palestine. There were already Jewish enclaves there. A number of Jews had been returning back to their ancient homeland since the late 18th century (not to mention the small number living there already). They used their money to buy the land back.

During the War of Independence of 1947, the Jordanian Arab army threw out the Jews who were living in Jerusalem. The Arabs then threw out all the Jews who were living in their nations. They had no place to goto except Israel.

In the Six Day war of 1967, the Israel army gained back their territory and then some.

The main bone of contention has been the unwillingness of the Arab states to recognize the state of Israel. They have publicly vowed until very recently to kill all the Jews and eliminate their presence in the Middle East. You can't negotiate with such demands.

Originally posted by jeopardy_chaos
although God gave Isreal the land that the jews are in, back in abraham time, they have not owned the land for the past 2000 yrs.
....
who has the true right to the land??

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jeopardy_chaos,

your original post had some good and important questions.
One's end-time view DOES affect the way one views and shapes the world.

Many believe [and I agree] that Israel has a right to a peaceful homeland. Not enough also believe IMO that the Palestinians ALSO have right to a peaceful homeland. It is insensitive and immoral to say "let the other Arab nations take them." It would be like America pushing into Canada and others standing by saying "let them go to France -they do speak French you know."

The truth is the Palesinians were pushed aside to make way for the Israelis -this should have been better negotiated back when it happened.

Many "futurists" today [but not all] turn a blind eye or rationalise away Israels ungodly treatment of Palestinians by saying things like "God gave Israel the Land forever" -which is then used to justify or ignore the murder of innocent people. Palestinians are as guilty in there reactive responses.

jeopardy -take some time and read these scriptures.

The promises to land were:

1) conditional i.e., obedience Deut 28:15-68

2) completely fulfilled "Not a word failed... All came to pass." -Josh 1:6; 11:23; 21:43-45. 1Kings 4:20-21 [Gen 15:18, Josh 1:4] Josh 23:14, Neh 9:7-8.

Some say the promise was made "forever" -it was, but "forever" means "as long as God dealt with His people in a given manner." Eg: Circumcision was given as an "eternal or everlasting" sign of the old covenant. All the "shadows" of which land was one, were ALL fulfilled in Christ.

Holding Israel up on a pedestal codoning their actions either through silence, or making outlandish remarks based on faulty biblical beliefs is reprehensible.

Having said all that -it is just as evil that Paslestinian suicide bombers wreak the hovoc that they do.

God does not sanction ANY of this violence -the only thing "playing out" here is sectarianism, God shows NO partiality! To say he does is to do violence to the Scriptures themselves.

davo

Originally posted by jeopardy_chaos
you make some good points dave, I was also thinking about the fact that god gave the land to Isreal on condition that they obay the laws of god.

I think I need to do some more study on how isreal became a nation again.

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No worries jeopardy

The point I'm making is this: Whatever Israel does, rightly or wrongly has no bearing with regards to supposed "unfulfilled" promises in the bible. ALL WERE FULFILLED. The "special" people of God is the household of believers, where no racial distinctions exist [apart from the ones those ignorant of the scriptures put there -to the detriment of all].

PS: it's important to read those scriptures

davo

APART from the bible we need to seriously look at the history of the Israel/Palestinian dispute. It is undeniable that Israel is a sovereign nation defending itself against terrorism. Their war is different than ours in that it is fought in the streets of populated areas rather than remote mountain regions. It is impossible to avoid civilian casualities, but there is question as to whether Israel is making every effort to reduce those casualties.

It is interesting the subtle twist Davo gives the issue by stating that 'it is just as evil that Paslestinian suicide bombers wreak the hovoc that they do.' This makes no distinction between Israel's defense of her citizens and terrorists who target innocent civilians. In my opinion the terrorists are much more evil and Israel's only transgression is perhaps in persuing terrorists without due regard for innocent civilians.

Yeah jeopardy, it staggers me how people can make such "blinked" statements like: "In my opinion the terrorists are much more evil and Israel's only transgression is perhaps in persuing terrorists without due regard for innocent civilians."

The truth is, people in the "popular" venacular and climate demonise most Palestinians as terrorists -but don't consider tanks and air strike-power wiping out entire villages and the like in the same light -strange that, and yet apparently when Israelis make their illegal immoral incursions, well somehow that's different, it's not "terrorism," again strange -oh that's right, I almost forgot "they're only defending themselves" "For the life of me" -I wander if someone out there might think that maybe just perhaps the Palestinians may think they're doing the same thing -like, defending themselves [shock-horror could this be so??] There's nothing like good ol' christian consistancy -and if that's twisting the subtleties it's better than sticking one's head in the proverbial sand -like wake up and get real!! -the problem is not one sided.

davo

davo,

You sound a little anti-semitic there. Tell us more about your opinion of the Jewish people. Doesn't God command us to love the Jewish people?

This will definitely get me banned from here but,
yes some of the jewish "settlers" paid for the
houses they took, but the "sellers" had no
choice but sell at gunpoint. Fair market value
will be judged by God. The Palestinians are
Semetic as well, so anti-"semetism" is a poor
label.
When Israel was seeking their independance,
the terrorists were Jewish, and the targets were British
Begin was a wanted man in England.
I am sorry to make any of you all mad, but go ahead
and ban me.
Keep in mind of the terminology of late, and Israel's
massacre of Palestinians were at a refugee camp.
REFUGEE-one who flees from invasion, persucution,
or political danger.
They have been forced to live there for decades,
enjoying the money they recieved from the selling of
their homes.
You all wonder why they might be angry. They are
after all evil muslims, so they are wrong automatically.
I speak against the evil I see there, so I am to be
banned automatically as a non-christian. That is
expected. As christians we should examine our beliefs
so that we should not believe lies and/or half truths.
I am not pro or con any race or group, but know
lies when I see it. The killing of Palestinians of late
will ensure no hope of peace for the region, as well
as the suicide bombs from the Palestinians. Prayer
for peace is the only hope.
Fish

Originally posted by Auntie_Belle_Um
davo,

You sound a little anti-semitic there. Tell us more about your opinion of the Jewish people. Doesn't God command us to love the Jewish people?

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G'day Auntie

That's the trouble when trying to to be fair -some take it as being opposed to one side. Jesus redefined the commandments into this "Love the Lord your God and your neighbour as yourself" -loving thy nieghbour is loving God. I am pro-Arab AND I am pro-Israeli. What I'm not "pro" is the unbiblical notion that God shows partiality. Since Christ brought in the New Covenant in His Blood there is no justifiable sheding of another's blood, hiding behind His Name. Many christians think modern day Palestine has been rubber stamped "for Israel" by God.

The injunctions in the Old Testament around "praying for and or blessing Israel" etc ALL relate to them as the Old Covenant people of God under that dispensation. This situation or condition no longer exists [nor is it meant to] for those who are "believers in Christ" ARE joined to Israel, but not in a temporal racial sense but in a covenantal sense -the New Covenant. Christ's new covenant is ALL about "believers" becoming the people of God with NO racial basis whatsoever.

Anti-Semitism is evil, as is the Arab equivalent, or any other "anti-". Jesus said "LOVE THY NEIGHBOUR" -good advice.

davo

G'day Fish

thanks for posting that -it clarifies a few things. "All" being 'Semites' must be true as they both have Abraham as their "father".

davo

when Jesus comes back it will belong to Him, there will be no more arguing over it

Zechariah 2:11-12
And many nations shall join themselves to the LORD in that day, and shall be my people; and I will dwell in the midst of you, and you shall know that the LORD of hosts has sent me to you. And the LORD will inherit Judah as his portion in the holy land, and will again choose Jerusalem."

Choosing "Judah" and Jerusalem" is about choosing Israel via the new covenant, and that's happened . That's what Christ's Gospel is all about -making a people who were not a people into the people of God -that's why believers [of whatever ethicity] ARE the "Israel of God." The "Land," in Christ is no longer the promised land, but the Land of Promise i.e., SALVATION -and that Jesus fully established for ALL. All the temporal types and shadows are complete in Him 2Cor 1:20.

davo

LOL!! the preterist dispostion for dyslexic interpretaion is always amusing

actually this scripture is a reference to the LAND that was alloted to the tribe of Judah, hence the words "Judah as his portion in the holy land" and when he does come he will rule personally from Jerusalem.

i do not know about you personally, but i know many people like to think Christ will rule "through" church, but the Catholics tried that already with not real promising results...