Originally posted by Craigybabe
Something that is continually sticking with me, the major flaw in what my preterists friends are preaching, is that surely the creation of the new earth and heaven would have been recorded by man if it had already happened. Wouldn't there be some sort of evidence that Jesus has already come again? How and why would the coming of all these events have been kept secret: the rapture;the harvest of souls; the 4 riders of the apocalypse; the anti-christ etc. Why is there still suffering if this is meant to be the "new Earth"? Why is there still evil in the world? I know this has all been answered in the 'End times' section. Its just that Something on such a large scale, something that would affect all of us wouldn't have been able to have been hidden.
God Bless
Craig [/B]
Hi Craig. The real point here is it is not that these things have been hidden from us. The real point here is we just did not understand what these things mant. For example two thousand years from now our history, culture, politics and language will have changed dramatically. Imagine someone then having to learn the ancient language of "modern English" to read one of our daily newspapers!
If they saw one of our political cartoons with a "donkey" and an "elephant" dressed in weird uniforms and acting strange, what would they think? How would they go about understanding the cartoon? Not only would they have to study the language, but also our culture, history, politics and economic situation as well.
The same principle applies to the Bible. If we have always been taught that the Bible was written
"only to us" and never been taught to understand, applie, and carefully study, the language, history, culture and politics of the First Century we fail to grasp the essential understanding of the Bible.
Sadly many Bible students are unfamiliar with the apocalyptic, and figurative language of the Bible. And so many people like to say "The Bible says what it means and means what it says". Without carefully stuuding the language, history, culture and politics of the First Century. They seem to be saying there is no such thing as figurative or spiritual language. This is sad because a LOT of the Bible is symbolic language.
The problem is we are not used to dealing with such symbolical language like the sun being darkened and the stars falling, new heaven and earth without thinking literally. To the Jew this was not new language. When the rulers of the nation which God destroyed passed away it was said that the sun was darkened and the stars fell from the sky's, etc.
To help you understand how the Jews communicated in terms of symbolical language last first study (Genesis 37:9). This is the way language is used in the Old Testament. It was adopted for like use in the New Testament.
This kind of language in relation to Israel began in the Bible in (Genesis 37:9). When Joseph told his brothers his dream He said, "Behold, I have dreamed a dream more; and, behold, the sun and the moon and the eleven stars made obeisance to me." His father understood the meaning of that dream and asked. "What is the dream that thou haste dreamed? Shall I and thy mother and thy brethren indeed come to bow down ourselves to thee to the earth? (vs.10). To what was Joseph relating his dream - to the sun and the moon and the stars? No to his father and mother and brethren.
In studying apocalyptic language of the New Testament, we must have a good understanding of the Old Testament-the sourse for much of the minology used in the New Testament.
Joseph in a dream saw "the sun and the moon and the eleven stars" abeying him (Genesis 37:9), and there we see the same kind of typology used, as we know this referred to the brothers of Joseph finally having to yield to Joseph when he became a rular in Egypt.. The heavenly elements represent people in OLD Testament labguage.
In order to understand the Bible (we must read the Bible in this Jewish mindset). Take, for example, the case of the prophesied fall of Babylon to the (Medes in 539BC)., and how God used this celestial and universal language to describe the judgment that would come upon her: "Bohold, the day of the LORD cometh, cruel both with wrath and fierce anger, to lay the land desolate: and he shall destroy the sinners thereof out of it. "For the stars of heaven and the constellations thereof shall not give their light: the sun shall be darkened in his going forth, and the moon shall not cause her light to shine. And i will punish the world for their evil (Isaiah 13:9-11).
This applied to Babylon, as mentioned in verse 1 This language is symboical and represented in celestial language somthing that would take place upon a people. Again, note the prophecy of Ezekiel against Egypt: "And when I shall put thee out, I will cover the heave, and make the stars thereof dark; I will cover the sun with a cloud, and the moon shall not give her light. "All the bright lights of heaven will make dark over thee, and set darkness upon thy land, saith the Lord GOD" (Ezekiel 32:7-8) This applied to egypt, as mentioned in vss. 2, 12-16.
Most preterist have learned that in understanding many expressions in the New Testament eschatology, it is asolutely necessary to go back to the Old Testament and see how the same expressions were used there. In that way, one lets the Bible interpret itself. This same language was used in response to Israel, judgment of God (Matthew 24:29) This applied to Israel as mentioned in verse 34,35, 36, of Matthew 23.
The "heaven and earth" are simply the Jewish religious/political authorities and the land of Palestine and the people who lived there. They were the 'ungodly men' because they jejected and killed the Christ. And thus is was that heaven and earth that would removed forever.
The "Heavens and the Earth" Represent Israel.
In Isaiah 51:15-16 God said: "But I am the LORD thy God, that divided the sea, whose waves roared: The LORD of host is his name. "And I have put my words in thy mouth, and I have covered there in the shadow of mine hand, that I may plant the heavens, and ay the foundations of the earth, and say unto Zion, Thou art my people."
God is not talking here about something that happened at creation's date 3,000 years before! He is talking about His people Israel. The heavens and the earth" represent Israel in this language. The Hebrew people understood this kind of language. It was their style. We need to see things in context, and the context of the Jewish writters.
In Haggai 2:6-7 (a Messianic prophecy) it said, "Yet once, it is a little while, and I will shake the heavens, and the earth, and the sea, and the dry land: And I will shake all nations........This passage applies to the change of things which were brought about by the passing away of the old and the introduction of the new. The coming of Christ made possible this great change.
The change would involve the passing away of the old Juaistic system with all its ceremonies, rites, rituals, sacrifices, etc. As the writer of Hebrew said, as he "borrowed" words from Haggai 2:6: "The destruction of Jersualem is very frequently expressed in Scripture as if it were the destruction of the whole world.
When Moses said, "Listen O heavens, and I will speak; Hear O earth, the words of my mouth' (Deut 28), he did not mean the clouds and the rocks were to hear, but the leaders and the people were to hear! "Heavens" well portrays that which is "over us" and is the government or those in authority. When Moses and the priest spoke to the people they spoke in the authority of God.
"Earth" was used as a reference to the common people. A good example of this is where Jesus Himself said, "You are the salt of the earth" (Matthew 5:13)
Even today we describe honest, hard working people as "salt of the earth." So the passing away of heaven and earth was the passing away of a culture its government and its people and their life stile (Matthew 5:13) When that culture or covenant that was known to the Jews as the heaven and earth passed away so did the Law.
Their "heaven and earth" is gone! We now live under the new "heaven and earth" or covenant wherein dwells righteousess. If you believe, the "heaven and earth" that Jesus was talking about was the literal, heaven and earth then you are sill under (ALL THE LAWS) of the old covenants. Because Jesus Himself said: "I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, (not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished (Matt.5:18)
We no the old heaven and earth disappeared because we are not under the old covenant of the law but a new covenant of grace. Aman. So the passing away of heaven and earth was the passing away of a culture its government and its people taken into slavery into other lands, forever scattered.
LOVE
